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#1
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Pin vise
I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild
steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we just can't get a grip on this problem )-: . Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the wire. Charlie |
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#2
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Pin vise
On Thu, 28 May 2009 21:49:39 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Charlie Leo
wrote: I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or repair the damage? Sounds to me like it's not actually made of steel. Behavior like that, with those soft metals, sounds more like a tool made of brass or nickel silver. I've seen that style pin vise made of that occasionally. You might try a different supplier. Check the things to be sure they are indeed steel. If they are, but are simply so soft, and your use demanding enough that you actually are damaging steel jaws, then try to harden and temper one. It might be a steel with enough carbon to allow some hardening and tempering, even if not sold hardened. If it won't harden, perhaps you could have a local machine shop case harden them for you. Also, in use, considering that you're using them to twist square wire (a use which puts more force on those jaw corners than you might realize, be very sure when using them that the vice is always fully tight on the wire. If you let it loosen, so it can slip a bit, then each time it slips it will wear down the corner on the jaw, and that will quickly turn into a vice that cannot get a good grip. Keep it from slipping in the first place, and it will last longer. As to repair, you might be able to get a sanding disc mounted on a flex shaft mandrel down into the slots in the jaws. If so, and you can get it down far enough (depends on whether the slide gives you enough access), you could widen the slots slightly. That would recut the corners to a sharp corner again, and allow it again to grip, so long as the slide doesn't then actually come off... Worth a try at any rate. Peter |
#3
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Pin vise
Charlie Leo wrote:
I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we just can't get a grip on this problem )-: . Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the wire. Charlie sounds like the wrong tool for the job being used by inexperienced people. Never knew that pin vices had slide closure of the collet. I Googled for them and there used mainly in the watch and clock trade for just holding parts, not taking a twisting load. Now ive twisted some big wire in my time, 3 by 1/8th in stainless. used my lathe in low gear and held the other end with 2ft long draw tongs. The biggest twister is Albert Payley the American iron smith who twists up 1 in steel bar using a ships mooring capstan. You can get really small drawtongs about 5in long with a slide lock over the handles. there hardened steel.Ive a pair here. Or for a cheaper option ive seen Chinese made mole grips down to 2in long!. those are overcenter locking and would do the job. It would be no problem to design an over center locking collet pin vice specifically for your trade. I would need a production order of say 1000 to warrant the cost. Let me know off list if your interested and ill quote you . We can get a grip!! on most problems!! Ted Dorset UK. |
#4
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Pin vise
On May 28, 10:49*pm, Charlie Leo wrote:
I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and gold filled square wire. *After about an hour's use, the vise will not hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we just can't get a grip on this problem )-: . Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the wire. Charlie I would suggest you buy a milling vise or what is known as a 'machining' vise. They are much, much stronger and have far better clamping pressure than any bench pin vise. This will allow you to not only bend, stretch or twist wire, but also, mill, file and drill pieces of metal as well. They also move in any X or Y axis combination (infinite adjustments) and can be fitted with all different types of jaw fittings from leather to rubber, copper, etc... Many of them also come with a limited lifetime warranty. Just my .02 cents..... Cheers, /MM |
#5
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Pin vise
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:34:11 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..."
wrote: I would suggest you buy a milling vise or what is known as a 'machining' vise. They are much, much stronger and have far better clamping pressure than any bench pin vise. MM, I suspect you misinterpreted both the tool the OP is describing, and it's use. Pin vises are about the size and shape of a pencil, or half of one, with a small collet chuck at one or both ends. Used in the hand to gently hold or manipulate wire, small tools, etc. In wire wrapping, relatively smallish guage square wire is wrapped around stones for settings, mandrels to make ring shanks, etc. No solder, but rather the wrapping itself holds the piece together. The pin vise is used when the maker wishes a short section of the wire to have a twist. It's generally twisted "in situ", meaning part already extends into the partially completed work, and the wire extending out with which one is working, is given a decorative twist, often just in the middle of a part that goes back into further wrapping. The whole thing is that this is gentle, delicate work with the wire in the hands, with the vise as a small hand tool assist. A bench vise or machinists vise is indeed a wonderful tool where indicated, but completely useless for this application. Peter |
#6
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Pin vise
FC... wrote:
On May 28, 10:49 pm, Charlie Leo wrote: I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we just can't get a grip on this problem )-: . Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the wire. Charlie I would suggest you buy a milling vise or what is known as a 'machining' vise. I don' think you get the concept of what a "pin vise" is :-) FYI, it is not something that is used in a milling machine. May I suggest you google images "pin vise". Very educational. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#7
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Pin vise
Hi Charlie,
I was interested in your question about the defective pin vise problem, so I wrote to Dale "Cougar" Armstrong, who uses a sliding pin vise in her DVDs. I received an answer this morning and also an offer of more help. Here's what she said. Yes, my favorite pin vise is the 'sliding' style, and I have had a couple of issues with a few in the past as well. In these cases, the area where the wire is inserted has been very sharp and causes the wire to break at the insertion point. In the situation you mention, it sounds like the insertion edges are 'rounding off', loosing the 'square' that would hold the wire in place. No, not 'defective' as far as style of unit goes, but maybe with the material used to make the vise. She asked where the "defective" pin vise was purchased. If you want to send me that information, then I will send it on and then send you her reply. Ronnie Buenos Aires and Albany, NY On May 29, 1:49=A0am, Charlie Leo wrote: I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and gold filled square wire. =A0After about an hour's use, the vise will not hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we just can't get a grip on this problem )-: . Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the wire. Charlie |
#8
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Pin vise
Ronnie - It seems that I have raised a little interest with my pin vise problem. Some of them were purchased locally, probably under the brand name EURO TOOL. Some may have come from Rio Grande or Grobet. Regardless, they all seem to have the same problem. I teach a wire wrapping class - some of the small tools seem to ‘walk' out of the class so I have to replace them. So I am not really sure how many I've gone through. But almost all of them have developed this problem. None of them seem to break wire, however. I tried to use fine sand paper to restore the ‘bite' - that didn't work. I've thought about heat hardening them.. I suppose that since I have so many defective ones I could cut a couple of the sections off so I can actually see what's going on. But I was hoping to find some kind of solution without destroying one or more of them. Charlie |
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