VERY OT Water heaters without a tank

Well, I will have quite some time before I can knock this house into shape,
sell it and start building. (Spending much of the past three months in bed
after this traumatic and extensive hip surgery as played havoc with my
strength and stamina and I have a lot of painting, packing and weeding to do
before this house can be put on the market.) I'm gathering some ideas right
now. On a fixed and modest income I have to weigh the pros and cons. I am
almost convinced it's the way for me to go, tho. I don't think I'd ever
need to shower and wash clothes at the same time, for example, so a smaller
unit would do for me.

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

"Polly Esther" wrote in message
...
We have a travel trailer that we take to the mountains and it has one of
those hot water heaters. The hot water supply has always seemed to be
immediate and unlimited. I've never quite understood how it works but, of
course, I don't understand how the radio works.
While you're thinking (gasp), why don't you consider a timer on the
regular hot water heater and investigate one of those snazzy kitchen
faucet things that does always ready nearly-boiling hot water? V-e-r-y
interesting, Leslie. Let us know how it goes. Polly

"Bobbie Sews More" wrote in message
...
This isn't about the tankless water heater, but mom had a timer on her
hot water heater to heat from 5 PM - 8 PM. She had
hot water to wash dishes in the sink, and to take a shower. Even in the
winter the water would be warm the next day. If I needed hotter water to
wash dishes, I would heat it in the kettle. When the hot water tank had
to be replaced, she got a smaller one that was 30 gal or less-----don't
remember exactly.
Barbara in SC where winter nights will get down to 32 and below during
Dec - Feb
"Leslie & The Furbabies in MO." wrote in message
...
I've been doing some pondering- I know very dangerous! BG

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water
heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower
7 times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4
times per week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per
week. I am heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am
paying for almost 160 hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I
don't see putting a water heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot
water during the day for hand washing and small jobs and the cost to
reheat the entire tank would prolly cost more than the savings if I had
a timer and shut it down for 15-18 hrs. per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as
expensive as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the
performance of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons?
I know they are quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in
features and what should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I
assume what is available here may be very different from what others may
have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

Can you get "Off-Peak" Electricity?
This heats your water at night when there is less demand for power and
therefore the amount you use costs less perKwt. My MIL had one and it worked
for her with four people in house and it very rarely needed reheating during
the day when she turned on the 'thermo'.
Ruth
Sydney

I am trying to convince DH to look at these for our home. We have a water
heater that is on its last legs and will need to be replaced soon. So far
he won't even consider them. I think I'm going to have to research them on
my own to see if the would work for us. Do let us know what you decide!!

--
Charlotte
http://community.webshots.com/user/charh108


"Leslie & The Furbabies in MO." wrote in message
...
I've been doing some pondering- I know very dangerous! BG

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water
heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower 7
times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4 times
per week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per week. I am
heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am paying for almost
160 hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I don't see putting a
water heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot water during the day
for hand washing and small jobs and the cost to reheat the entire tank
would prolly cost more than the savings if I had a timer and shut it down
for 15-18 hrs. per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as
expensive as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the
performance of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I
know they are quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in
features and what should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I
assume what is available here may be very different from what others may
have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

Mine does this too and it is not a tankless. Just too much piping between
it and the tank.

--
Charlotte
http://community.webshots.com/user/charh108


"joanb" wrote in message
ups.com...

We have one, and the main problem is that it takes some time to "fire
up" and reach my kitchen sink. We pay for our water by the gallon,
and it can take a sinkful of water(no kidding) to get it to run hot.

DH has looked into a tankless water heater for the house we will
build when he retires. He says there's a good site --
http://www.foreverho****er.com is the link he thinks -- and he has
learned a lot about them from this. His take is that it only works with
gas, not electric so if you are an all electric home, it won't be
feasible unless you add propane or natural gas.
Apparently, the water travels through a coil and THIS is what's
heated. Like a regular tank water heater, the water travels from the
coil to wherever you have opened up the faucet. If you have a two story
home and the unit is in the basement, it will take just as long for
tankless hot water to get to you as it does for regular tank hot water.
A tankless water heater DOES NOT mean instant hot water on demand. It
does cost considerably more as you have mentioned. It uses a whole lot
less power than a regular tank -- you do need a bit of electricity to
turn on the gas flame that is used to heat the water in the coil but
that's probably just a few cents worth of electricity.
DH also says they are much smaller than the standard tank and can be
tucked into a closet and not necessarily put in the basement or the
garage. It MUST be professionally installed -- I think Jack mentioned
that -- or you *will* have all sorts of problems. From what DH has
read, it should provide constant hot water throughout the entire house
depending on the capacity of your plumbing lines. You don't run out of
hot water like with a tank but if you have 3 people taking showers at
the same time the washer is going along with the dishwasher, then you'll
have a problem providing enough hot water to all of those locations. If
your water heater coil is 1" diameter then you will have more hot water
available for use by different locations in the house than if your coil
is 3/4" or 1/2".
Anyway, Dh is pretty sure we will have a tankless system when we
build the cabin. It will pay for itself in the long run and everyone in
the mountains has propane for heating so we will have the gas available.
Keep us posted on what you learn, OK Leslie? Good Luck & CiaoMeow ^;;^

PAX, Tia Mary ^;;^ (RCTQ Queen of Kitties)
Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about
their whiskers!
Visit my Photo albums at http://community.webshots.com/user/tiamary



Leslie & The Furbabies in MO. wrote:
I've been doing some pondering- I know very dangerous! BG

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water
heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower 7
times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4 times per
week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per week. I am
heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am paying for almost 160
hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I don't see putting a water
heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot water during the day for hand
washing and small jobs and the cost to reheat the entire tank would prolly
cost more than the savings if I had a timer and shut it down for 15-18 hrs.
per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as expensive
as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the performance
of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I know they are
quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in features and what
should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I assume what is
available here may be very different from what others may have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.




--
ÐÏࡱá

we have one of these - called an instantaneous or continuous system here
in Australia. Ours is a 25-30 yr old Junkers (bought out by Bosch) and was
in the house when we moved in 18yrs ago. Our laundry, kitchen and bathroom
are all in line - the hot water system is in the laundry and we have very
little time lag getting hot water to the bathroom (furthest away). There
are 5 of us using it, we also have gas cooking and heating and my gas bill
is quite reasonable. There are some issues with pressure - we needed a
particular type of mixer tap when we renovated the kitchen (ordinary single
taps are not an problem) and if you turn on a tap or flush the toilet
while someone is in the shower, they lose a bit of hot water. It's something
we've learnt to work around - if you want to fill the kettle while someone's
in the shower, you do it at a trickle. If you flush, you yell "sorry" :-) I
understand that the newer electronically controlled systems don't have the
pressure problem.

When this system needs replacing, I'll certainly be replacing it with
another. We use a star rating system to measure energy efficiency for
appliances and most of these systems rate at 5+ stars (out of 6).

chris
:-)

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as expensive
as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the performance
of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I know they are
quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in features and what
should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I assume what is
available here may be very different from what others may have???

Don't look at just the difference in price between a tankless and a
regular water heater.... there are also installation costs, which can be
quite high in retrofits. You need a big natural gas line or a lot more
electricity to the main panel, for starters and specific exhaust stacks
for gas.
http://www.esource.com/BEA/demo/BEA_esource/PA_29.html
http://www.pse.com/solutions/homePDFs/TanklessWH.pdf

A couple of things you could look at: retrofitting for solar hot water,
(tax and sometimes utility rebates for this), or a smaller water heater
with better insulation.
http://www.solarexpert.com/dhw-heat.html
http://www.ncsc.ncsu.edu/information_ resources/factsheets/SolarDHW.pdf


Another choice might be to put the main tank on a timer for showers,
and use one of the little electric "hot water dispensers" for kitchen
sink needs if you don't have a dishwasher. (Might work anyhow with
the dishwasher if the dw has its own heater.) This would probably be
cheapest if you've already got heavy enough wire near your sink.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...Dispenser.html
http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/pl_sin...268619,00.html

When your current water heater quits, consider sizing a new one for your
actual water use patterns.

Kay


k

On Aug 11, 2:24 pm, "Leslie & The Furbabies in MO."
wrote:
Thanks Joan. If I design the house with all the bathrooms, kitchen and
laundry very close together would that eliminate much of the 'it can take a
sinkful of water(no kidding) to get it to run hot' problem???

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

"joanb" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Aug 11, 8:22 am, Patti wrote:
I have a friend who lives along and she has one of these. I'll ring her
as soon as I can and ask her what she thinks of hers. Knowing her she
won't know anything about the economics of the thing! but she'll know
whether she likes it or not. I'll let you know what she says.
.
In message , Leslie & The Furbabies
in MO. writes

I've been doing some pondering- I know very dangerous! BG

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water
heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower
7
times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4 times
per
week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per week. I am
heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am paying for almost
160
hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I don't see putting a
water
heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot water during the day for
hand
washing and small jobs and the cost to reheat the entire tank would
prolly
cost more than the savings if I had a timer and shut it down for 15-18
hrs.
per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as
expensive
as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the
performance
of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I know they
are
quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in features and
what
should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I assume what is
available here may be very different from what others may have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

--
Best Regards
pat on the hill

We have one, and the main problem is that it takes some time to "fire
up" and reach my kitchen sink. We pay for our water by the gallon,
and it can take a sinkful of water(no kidding) to get it to run hot.
Ergo, wasted water, more cost. Also if you were ever planning to use
any kind of solar heating that can prove very difficult and costly to
include in your tankless system. For central heating it can't be
beaten, but for showers, we have a point-of use electric heater with
integral pump, and that is very efficient. I threaten to have a point-
of-use heater for my kitchen; as it is, if a small quantity of hot
water is needed, I boil the kettle and use that in a small bowl. We
only wash dishes in the dishwasher.
It all helps if you have the heater very near to where it will be used
with only a short pipe run to the faucets/taps.

Hope that helps

Joan

that would be my consideration. I forgot to say that it runs off gas
but if the elec. is off(it works the pump), you get no hot water at
all, unlike a tanked system where you can still drain the tank . I
have spent more on maintenance over the years than any notional
savings. Our house is not designed for a tankless system which was
put in for the previous owner (a very old lady) by her family. She
did no cooking or laundry as the family did all that. For a large
family, I think it might pay to install it, as I remember when the
kids were at home we were always running out of hot water! If it were
me, I would ask round to see if there was anyone you knew who could
give a "stateside" opinion and demo.
Maybe I am biased, but our water is very expensive here and I hate
waste.
hope that helps
Joan
Coventry UK

I told DH we should think about the tankless water heater when the time
comes & looking at our water heater, I'm surprised the time hasn't come
already. He thought they were very expensive & if, as someone said, you
waste a lot of water before you get hot water, that could be a deal breaker.
Especially since we are being encouraged to ration our water, since we
haven't had much rain in the past 2 years.

But, more importantly, did I miss an important chapter in your life?
"Living alone now" - what happened to the hunky husband? Hope that's not
being too noisy, but I had to ask.

Pauline
Northern California

"Leslie & The Furbabies in MO." wrote in message
...
I've been doing some pondering- I know very dangerous! BG

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water
heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower 7
times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4 times
per week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per week. I am
heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am paying for almost
160 hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I don't see putting a
water heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot water during the day
for hand washing and small jobs and the cost to reheat the entire tank
would prolly cost more than the savings if I had a timer and shut it down
for 15-18 hrs. per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as
expensive as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the
performance of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I
know they are quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in
features and what should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I
assume what is available here may be very different from what others may
have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

We separated almost 3 months ago.

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

"Pauline" wrote in message
. net...
I told DH we should think about the tankless water heater when the time
comes & looking at our water heater, I'm surprised the time hasn't come
already. He thought they were very expensive & if, as someone said, you
waste a lot of water before you get hot water, that could be a deal
breaker. Especially since we are being encouraged to ration our water,
since we haven't had much rain in the past 2 years.

But, more importantly, did I miss an important chapter in your life?
"Living alone now" - what happened to the hunky husband? Hope that's not
being too noisy, but I had to ask.

Pauline
Northern California

"Leslie & The Furbabies in MO." wrote in message
...
I've been doing some pondering- I know very dangerous! BG

Living alone now, I realized I am paying to keep a tankful of hot water
heated for many, many hours without none to minimal usage. If I shower 7
times a week, wash 3-4 loads of laundry and run the dishwasher 3-4 times
per week then I have a demand for hot water about 9 hours per week. I am
heating water 24/7 which is 168 hrs. per week- so I am paying for almost
160 hrs. of hot water that I do not need or use. I don't see putting a
water heater with a tank on a timer since I need hot water during the day
for hand washing and small jobs and the cost to reheat the entire tank
would prolly cost more than the savings if I had a timer and shut it down
for 15-18 hrs. per day.

The cost of an on-demand/tankless water heater is 3 to 5 times as
expensive as a water heater with a tank. What I am curious about is the
performance of the tankless water heater. What are the pros and cons? I
know they are quite popular outside the USA- what should I look for in
features and what should I avoid? Does anybody in the USA have one? I
assume what is available here may be very different from what others may
have???

Any thoughts?

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.