Patron Saint of needle workers

Barabara thank you for the added information ,,,
mirjam

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

I was saying that , the patrons who ordered the knitted items ,
Weighted the Costly ,materials and wieghted the finnished garment , At
those time costly materials , were given only to males,,,
I have read several of the researches about knitting as well as the
book i mentioned before about Art.In those times if a male guild
member was found out to have given the women in his family , do some
of the work , it was Punishable ,,,
Knitting , esp Sock knitting [first in Italy] was a time consuming job
, as everybody worked long hours and houses were mostly Autarkic ,as
you pointed out , it is hardly possible that people knitted for their
own families , When knitting became known in Europe it was considered
a Luxery = to be traded, Don`t forget also that at those time there
were strong regulations about what people could or could not wear ,,,

I remember a history professor writing (I forget where) that the more
numerous and detailed the sumptuary laws were (that's what the laws were
called about who could wear what), the more likely it is that people
were ignoring them. Such laws were enacted by the uppermost classes who
feared losing their power to, for instance, independent bourgeois.

knitting was not permitted to the common people .Knitting Flax ??? In
those times ,, seems hardly possible , it wasn `t produced for other
uses... Knitting is much younger than weaving.
Learning about Textile history is an Eye opener to many Historical
events,,,,,
Some books that have interesting reading materials
Women, Art and Society By Whitney Chadwick , Thames And Hudson, 1990
Cloth and the Human Experience , Ed By Annette B. Weiner , and Jane
Schneider, Smithsonian Institute press, 1989.
Erica Wilson`s knitting book , Charles Scribner`s sons, 1988.
The Complete Book of Traditional Knitting , By Rae Compton , Batsford
,1983.
The art of Dress, clothers and society, 1500-1914, By Jane Ashford,
The National Trust, 1996.
A History of Handknitting , By Richard Rutt, Interweave press, 1987.
The Illustarted History of Textiles , ed By Madeleine Ginsburg ,
Portland house , 1991
The Fabric Catalog, By Martin Hardingham , A Wallby book, 1978.
Spinner Weber Kleidermacher , Rolf Momburg , Kurt Meier, 1998
Illustarted English social History By G.M. Trevelyan, Penguin books,
[rep] 1968 .
Archeology magazines ,, etc...

I must say i never Trust one book , i compare read matetrial , than go
check if they had different sources , and try to evalute those .
I also try and read Non textilic Information about guild rules , etc.
But of course i have to agree your thoughts are relevant ,, I only try
to not compare happenings and activities in the past, to our life
now.
ps did you know that at times people were even told how many and which
clothes items they may OWN , not only wear .
mirjam

"spampot" wrote in message
...
JJMolvik wrote:
"Jenn Vanderslice" wrote in message
...

I was looking for a Saint and came across this:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pst00252.htm

/J
--
ASC: Born to Herf 2005: http://www.geocities.com/borntoherf/
RCTY F.O.s: http://tinyurl.com/64dq5

Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing wonder and awe -
the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me. - Immanuel Kant


I really want to see this but have been totally unable to get the page
to
come up. It says it can't be found.
Help.

JJMolvik



I get that error msg too, JJ. Very frustrating.

Whew, I thought it just didn't like me!

JJMolvik

JJMolvik wrote:
"spampot" wrote in message
...

JJMolvik wrote:

"Jenn Vanderslice" wrote in message
...


I was looking for a Saint and came across this:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pst00252.htm

/J
--
ASC: Born to Herf 2005: http://www.geocities.com/borntoherf/
RCTY F.O.s: http://tinyurl.com/64dq5

Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing wonder and awe -
the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me. - Immanuel Kant


I really want to see this but have been totally unable to get the page

to

come up. It says it can't be found.
Help.

JJMolvik



I get that error msg too, JJ. Very frustrating.


Whew, I thought it just didn't like me!


Not you...I tried the link again and it seems the website is down now.
I've found other sites that list all the Patron Saints.
http://www.catholic.org/saints/patron.php
http://www.americancatholic.org/Feat.../patrons.asp#N
http://www.scborromeo.org/patron_p.htm

And just an FYI: I'm not catholic...I'm not Jewish...I'm not Methodist,
Lutheran, Baptist, etc. I don't consider myself any ONE religion.
I don't want anyone thinking I'm promoting Catholicism here. I just
find the lists of Saints really interesting.

/J
--
ASC: Born to Herf 2005: http://www.geocities.com/borntoherf/
RCTY F.O.s: http://tinyurl.com/64dq5

Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing wonder and awe -
the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me. - Immanuel Kant

In article ,
spampot wrote:
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

I was saying that , the patrons who ordered the knitted items ,
Weighted the Costly ,materials and wieghted the finnished garment ,
At those time costly materials , were given only to males,,,
I have read several of the researches about knitting as well as the
book i mentioned before about Art. In those times if a male guild
member was found out to have given the women in his family , do some
of the work , it was Punishable ,,,

Knitting , esp Sock knitting [first in Italy] was a time consuming job
, as everybody worked long hours and houses were mostly Autarkic ,as
you pointed out , it is hardly possible that people knitted for their
own families , When knitting became known in Europe it was considered
a Luxery = to be traded, Don`t forget also that at those time there
were strong regulations about what people could or could not wear ,,,

I remember a history professor writing (I forget where) that the more
numerous and detailed the sumptuary laws were (that's what the laws were
called about who could wear what), the more likely it is that people
were ignoring them. Such laws were enacted by the uppermost classes who
feared losing their power to, for instance, independent bourgeois.

Sumptuary laws were also fairly late in Europe. Byzantium had them
earlier, but as far as I know, places such as northern France didn't
have sumptuary laws until the middle of the 15th century.

knitting was not permitted to the common people .Knitting Flax ??? In
those times ,, seems hardly possible , it wasn `t produced for other
uses...

Are you quite sure? Flax is the plant from which linen is made, and
linen goes back at least to ancient Egypt. It was used for Coptic
socks from the sixth-eleventh centuries AD.

Knitting is much younger than weaving.

Professor Irena Turnau, _History of Hand Knitting Before Mass Production_
wrote specifically of the antiquity of knitting in various places. The
English translation of her book contained more information than the Polish
first edition, and is still available from the publishers in Poland
(Warszawa, The Institute of the History of Material Culture, Polish
Academy of Sciences, published in 1991 though copyright 1988.
ISBN 83-900213-2-3)

(Turnau, pg.14) Linen was used for Coptic socks from the sixth-eleventh
centuries AD, which were probably nalbinding. The feet of the socks are
linen, but the top is wool, dyed and made in stripes. (Professor Turnau
is inconsistent here; in one article she says the pair in Prague were
knitted, in another she says they were nalbinding and the pair in the
Hermitage in Russia are knitted, but the point is, they are linen.)

(Turnau, pg.17) "Two pairs of gloves are preserved in the cathedral
treasury of Brixen. One pair of gloves knitted from bleached linen yarn
with rosettes sewn on top, an embroidered cuff and rather wide fingers, is
dated to about 1200."

(Tissus d'Egypte, an exhibit catalog) Knitting appears to date from the
tenth or eleventh century AD, the assigned date of the oldest known
knitted fragments. Most of them were found in Fostat, Egypt (near Cairo)
though a few were found in Istanbul. They are incredibly tiny color-work
in fine wool, from 20 to 30 stitches per inch, with one done at 20
stitches per _centimeter_. They have been dated partly by the age where
some were found and partly by the designs, which are typical of the
Egyptian culture of those centuries. From the same period and slightly
later are blue and white patterned cotton stockings, some of which are
almost as coarse as modern machine-knitted cotton socks. There are also
several mysterious tubes of knitting which are too narrow and long to be
socks; it is speculated that they may have been belts but their purpose
is unknown.

Rutt says (page 44) that the Lorenzetti knitting Madonna (about 1347):
"suggests that knitting was done at home by women, but does not tell us
whether it was an occupation for ladies of leisure or a common pursuit,
whether it was cheap or expensive." He notes that the needles are held
under the palm and she carries the yarn over her right forefinger, which
is still a standard technique. This particular painting is considered to
show the virtue of humility, because the Madonna is sitting on the floor
(and doing handwork).

(Turnau, pg.18) "Six fragments of woolen knitwear were discovered among
textile relics in a twelfth or thirteenth century cemetery at Rownina
Dolna, Ketrzyn district, in the voivodship of Olsztyn [Poland].
A. Nahlik, who studied this collection, has suggested that one-coloured
or striped items knitted from light and dark woolen yarn were the product
of women's household work."

Rutt (page 58) lists "Marjorie Claton of Ripon was a cap-knitter in 1465
and the records of Nottingham show that Joan and Isabella Capper sought
licenses to trade as cap-knitters in 1478."

So by the fifteenth century women were definitely in business on
their own as professional knitters.

I believe that the family name "Capper" is a strong hint that those
women came from a family of professional cap makers.

(Rutt p.58) By the sixteenth century knitting was being forced on women
and children who were inmates of orphanages or jails or merely poor.

(Turnau p.137-138) Knitted wool stockings were being worn by poor people
in northern europe in the sixteenth century.

(Turnau p.32) "The first statutes appear in Sundgau and Brisgau [the upper
Rhine area] only ...in 1596. The statue, confirmed one year later,
required three years' apprenticeship and five years' journeying....It was
only permitted to make use of the work of one's own children and other
family members.... unqualified family members were allowed to work, but
not hired workers."

Thank you for the list of books. Some of them are new to me.

=Tamar

Learning about Textile history is an Eye opener to many Historical
events,,,,,
Some books that have interesting reading materials
Women, Art and Society By Whitney Chadwick , Thames And Hudson, 1990
Cloth and the Human Experience , Ed By Annette B. Weiner , and Jane
Schneider, Smithsonian Institute press, 1989.
Erica Wilson`s knitting book , Charles Scribner`s sons, 1988.
The Complete Book of Traditional Knitting , By Rae Compton , Batsford
,1983.
The art of Dress, clothers and society, 1500-1914, By Jane Ashford,
The National Trust, 1996.
A History of Handknitting , By Richard Rutt, Interweave press, 1987.
The Illustarted History of Textiles , ed By Madeleine Ginsburg ,
Portland house , 1991
The Fabric Catalog, By Martin Hardingham , A Wallby book, 1978.
Spinner Weber Kleidermacher , Rolf Momburg , Kurt Meier, 1998
Illustarted English social History By G.M. Trevelyan, Penguin books,
[rep] 1968 .
Archeology magazines ,, etc...

I must say i never Trust one book , i compare read matetrial , than go
check if they had different sources , and try to evalute those .
I also try and read Non textilic Information about guild rules , etc.
But of course i have to agree your thoughts are relevant ,, I only try
to not compare happenings and activities in the past, to our life
now.

=Tamar

Carey N. wrote:
"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:26:57 GMT, (Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

I suspect that women have always knitted at home.

--
Barbara Vaughan



Unless maybe they were knitting in school or church ? ; -)

LOL

Katherine

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 21:19:42 GMT, (Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

i know flax is made from linnen ,,,, which reminds me that there is a
Flax museum in Belgium , if any one traveles this way ,, please go to
see it ... it is facinating .

Actually, isn't line made from flax, and not the other way around?

Until recently hemp was worked very much like flax in Italy to produce
a thread that was woven on hand looms and used to make sheets and
towels. Every girl in the countryside had several sets of handwoven
sheets and towels when she got married. The fiber was beaten and
washed in the river and laid on the grass to bleach. This was the
custom until about 50 years ago. My husband's older sister made her
wedding sheets like this, and we still sleep on sheets made by my
husband's female relatives. The looms were fairly narrow, so the
sheets are usually made from two or three strips sewn together. They
are wonderfully cool in the summer, although they're a bit heavy to
launder and they need vigourous ironing. Also, some of the kitchen
towels I use were made at home like this. Usually a girl started by
weaving kitchen towels, so they are often a bit rougher than the
sheets because she wasn't as skillful at that point.


--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero dot it.

Thank you Tamar for joining this interesting discussion,
The Coptic Socks , just like the Massada socks was naaldbound with
cotton ,,,
Linnen was used for weaving , Linnen needs loads of water to Rat and
become soft for naaldbinding ,, the one most common in this parts was
Linum Usitatissimum ....and was used as one can see in old wall
paintings and is remembered in the biblical stories as a a matetial
meant to be used by Kings , And priests ,,, plain people wore woven
cottons and wools/
Are you quite sure? Flax is the plant from which linen is made, and
linen goes back at least to ancient Egypt. It was used for Coptic
socks from the sixth-eleventh centuries AD.
I never heard of coptic socks from linen/flax ??? but i may be wrong ,

i know flax is made from linnen ,,,, which reminds me that there is a
Flax museum in Belgium , if any one traveles this way ,, please go to
see it ... it is facinating .
Professor Irena Turnau, _History of Hand Knitting Before Mass Production_
I sure heard about her ,,, but never was lucky enough to see her book.

thank you for this information , i will see if i can get it ,, always
eager to learn more ..
I will try and see if Archeologist Abigail Sheffer is in the country
and ask her ,, she is a world expert on Naaldbound socks from the
Middle East .. as wel as other antique textiles .
you made me curious
thank you!!!!
(Turnau, pg.17) "Two pairs of gloves are preserved in the cathedral
treasury of Brixen. One pair of gloves knitted from bleached linen yarn
with rosettes sewn on top, an embroidered cuff and rather wide fingers, is
dated to about 1200."
Well the description of this gloves surely shows they were made for a
rich , noble or other important person , this is also the reason why
they were Kept ,,,, clothes of the Common people were used more
roughly , hence were more destroyed .
(Tissus d'Egypte, an exhibit catalog) Knitting appears to date from the
tenth or eleventh century AD, the assigned date of the oldest known
knitted fragments.
This is common knowledge in all archeology classes and lectures , In
desert climates lots of textile items were found as the dry cool
climate kept them ,,,,in Massada they found an embroidered pouch in
which a woman held her marrigae contract [ Ktubah ] .. In Akko Acre ,
a skeletonof a French officer [ from Napoleon`s army] was found under
a mound , almost in whole Uniform .... [ his family got him back
lately ].
knitting /naaldbinding was sipping into Europe mainly through
Most of them were found in Fostat, Egypt (near Cairo)
though a few were found in Istanbul. They are incredibly tiny color-work
in fine wool, from 20 to 30 stitches per inch, with one done at 20
stitches per _centimeter_. They have been dated partly by the age where
some were found and partly by the designs, which are typical of the
Egyptian culture of those centuries. From the same period and slightly
later are blue and white patterned cotton stockings, some of which are
almost as coarse as modern machine-knitted cotton socks. There are also
several mysterious tubes of knitting which are too narrow and long to be
socks; it is speculated that they may have been belts but their purpose
is unknown.

Rutt says (page 44) that the Lorenzetti knitting Madonna (about 1347):
"suggests that knitting was done at home by women, but does not tell us
whether it was an occupation for ladies of leisure or a common pursuit,
whether it was cheap or expensive." He notes that the needles are held
under the palm and she carries the yarn over her right forefinger, which
is still a standard technique. This particular painting is considered to
show the virtue of humility, because the Madonna is sitting on the floor
(and doing handwork).

(Turnau, pg.18) "Six fragments of woolen knitwear were discovered among
textile relics in a twelfth or thirteenth century cemetery at Rownina
Dolna, Ketrzyn district, in the voivodship of Olsztyn [Poland].
A. Nahlik, who studied this collection, has suggested that one-coloured
or striped items knitted from light and dark woolen yarn were the product
of women's household work."

Rutt (page 58) lists "Marjorie Claton of Ripon was a cap-knitter in 1465
and the records of Nottingham show that Joan and Isabella Capper sought
licenses to trade as cap-knitters in 1478."

So by the fifteenth century women were definitely in business on
their own as professional knitters.

I believe that the family name "Capper" is a strong hint that those
women came from a family of professional cap makers.

(Rutt p.58) By the sixteenth century knitting was being forced on women
and children who were inmates of orphanages or jails or merely poor.

(Turnau p.137-138) Knitted wool stockings were being worn by poor people
in northern europe in the sixteenth century.

(Turnau p.32) "The first statutes appear in Sundgau and Brisgau [the upper
Rhine area] only ...in 1596. The statue, confirmed one year later,
required three years' apprenticeship and five years' journeying....It was
only permitted to make use of the work of one's own children and other
family members.... unqualified family members were allowed to work, but
not hired workers."

Thank you for the list of books. Some of them are new to me.

=Tamar

Learning about Textile history is an Eye opener to many Historical
events,,,,,
Some books that have interesting reading materials
Women, Art and Society By Whitney Chadwick , Thames And Hudson, 1990
Cloth and the Human Experience , Ed By Annette B. Weiner , and Jane
Schneider, Smithsonian Institute press, 1989.
Erica Wilson`s knitting book , Charles Scribner`s sons, 1988.
The Complete Book of Traditional Knitting , By Rae Compton , Batsford
,1983.
The art of Dress, clothers and society, 1500-1914, By Jane Ashford,
The National Trust, 1996.
A History of Handknitting , By Richard Rutt, Interweave press, 1987.
The Illustarted History of Textiles , ed By Madeleine Ginsburg ,
Portland house , 1991
The Fabric Catalog, By Martin Hardingham , A Wallby book, 1978.
Spinner Weber Kleidermacher , Rolf Momburg , Kurt Meier, 1998
Illustarted English social History By G.M. Trevelyan, Penguin books,
[rep] 1968 .
Archeology magazines ,, etc...

I must say i never Trust one book , i compare read matetrial , than go
check if they had different sources , and try to evalute those .
I also try and read Non textilic Information about guild rules , etc.
But of course i have to agree your thoughts are relevant ,, I only try
to not compare happenings and activities in the past, to our life
now.

=Tamar

ooops i haven`t finnished answering
mirjam

In article ,
(Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote:


Not having read any special books on this topic, only the odd article or
what I was taught in shcool in Art history classes. I would still think
that all the models used by the painters were ordinairy women, with their
ordinairy works habits Definitly not upper class women, unless they had
their own portrait painted, which happened more in the Renaisance. So
when a madonna, or an angle, or any other biblical person, was painted,
the artist did use real humans (LOL), and often their life style was
depicted at the same time. Household items, gardens etc, this would
include the use of tools as well. That is why paintings often are used to
learn about what went on in special time periods.

One thing I do know is the inside of many of the Dutch musea. It was a
standart practice, when I went to school, in public school as well as
during my highschool years, to go to the musea, to learn not just about
the paintings and painters, but about the whole time slot these men lived
in. Often the little idiocincracies of day to day life could be found
back in highly religious paintings. We were asked to look for these
oddeties. Thus when Madonna is knitting, I would assume that the model
maybe brought her work along with her, so she could knit while having to
sit for hours for the painter. I would also think that this job was not
well paid, and that she maybe was a poor maid, or farmers worker who maybe
did not get money for her sitting, but some food, etc.

I know these are only assumptions naturally. I would love to go back,
say, to Het Rijksmuseum in Amsterdaym and look at these paintings done on
wood, and mainly for the Church. I most likely missed a lot when I was a
young girl with other things on my mind....LOL

Els

Thank you Tamar for joining this interesting discussion,
The Coptic Socks , just like the Massada socks was naaldbound with
cotton ,,,
Linnen was used for weaving , Linnen needs loads of water to Rat and
become soft for naaldbinding ,, the one most common in this parts was
Linum Usitatissimum ....and was used as one can see in old wall
paintings and is remembered in the biblical stories as a a matetial
meant to be used by Kings , And priests ,,, plain people wore woven
cottons and wools/
Are you quite sure? Flax is the plant from which linen is made, and
linen goes back at least to ancient Egypt. It was used for Coptic
socks from the sixth-eleventh centuries AD.
I never heard of coptic socks from linen/flax ??? but i may be wrong ,

i know flax is made from linnen ,,,, which reminds me that there is a
Flax museum in Belgium , if any one traveles this way ,, please go to
see it ... it is facinating .
Professor Irena Turnau, _History of Hand Knitting Before Mass Production_
I sure heard about her ,,, but never was lucky enough to see her book.

thank you for this information , i will see if i can get it ,, always
eager to learn more ..
I will try and see if Archeologist Abigail Sheffer is in the country
and ask her ,, she is a world expert on Naaldbound socks from the
Middle East .. as wel as other antique textiles .
you made me curious
thank you!!!!
(Turnau, pg.17) "Two pairs of gloves are preserved in the cathedral
treasury of Brixen. One pair of gloves knitted from bleached linen yarn
with rosettes sewn on top, an embroidered cuff and rather wide fingers, is
dated to about 1200."
Well the description of this gloves surely shows they were made for a
rich , noble or other important person , this is also the reason why
they were Kept ,,,, clothes of the Common people were used more
roughly , hence were more destroyed .
(Tissus d'Egypte, an exhibit catalog) Knitting appears to date from the
tenth or eleventh century AD, the assigned date of the oldest known
knitted fragments.
This is common knowledge in all archeology classes and lectures , In
desert climates lots of textile items were found as the dry cool
climate kept them ,,,,in Massada they found an embroidered pouch in
which a woman held her marrigae contract [ Ktubah ] .. In Akko Acre ,
a skeletonof a French officer [ from Napoleon`s army] was found under
a mound , almost in whole Uniform .... [ his family got him back
lately ].
knitting /naaldbinding was sipping into Europe mainly through
Most of them were found in Fostat, Egypt (near Cairo)
though a few were found in Istanbul. They are incredibly tiny color-work
in fine wool, from 20 to 30 stitches per inch, with one done at 20
stitches per _centimeter_. They have been dated partly by the age where
some were found and partly by the designs, which are typical of the
Egyptian culture of those centuries. From the same period and slightly
later are blue and white patterned cotton stockings, some of which are
almost as coarse as modern machine-knitted cotton socks. There are also
several mysterious tubes of knitting which are too narrow and long to be
socks; it is speculated that they may have been belts but their purpose
is unknown.

Rutt says (page 44) that the Lorenzetti knitting Madonna (about 1347):
"suggests that knitting was done at home by women, but does not tell us
whether it was an occupation for ladies of leisure or a common pursuit,
whether it was cheap or expensive." He notes that the needles are held
under the palm and she carries the yarn over her right forefinger, which
is still a standard technique. This particular painting is considered to
show the virtue of humility, because the Madonna is sitting on the floor
(and doing handwork).

(Turnau, pg.18) "Six fragments of woolen knitwear were discovered among
textile relics in a twelfth or thirteenth century cemetery at Rownina
Dolna, Ketrzyn district, in the voivodship of Olsztyn [Poland].
A. Nahlik, who studied this collection, has suggested that one-coloured
or striped items knitted from light and dark woolen yarn were the product
of women's household work."

Rutt (page 58) lists "Marjorie Claton of Ripon was a cap-knitter in 1465
and the records of Nottingham show that Joan and Isabella Capper sought
licenses to trade as cap-knitters in 1478."

So by the fifteenth century women were definitely in business on
their own as professional knitters.

I believe that the family name "Capper" is a strong hint that those
women came from a family of professional cap makers.

(Rutt p.58) By the sixteenth century knitting was being forced on women
and children who were inmates of orphanages or jails or merely poor.

(Turnau p.137-138) Knitted wool stockings were being worn by poor people
in northern europe in the sixteenth century.

(Turnau p.32) "The first statutes appear in Sundgau and Brisgau [the upper
Rhine area] only ...in 1596. The statue, confirmed one year later,
required three years' apprenticeship and five years' journeying....It was
only permitted to make use of the work of one's own children and other
family members.... unqualified family members were allowed to work, but
not hired workers."

Thank you for the list of books. Some of them are new to me.

=Tamar

Learning about Textile history is an Eye opener to many Historical
events,,,,,
Some books that have interesting reading materials
Women, Art and Society By Whitney Chadwick , Thames And Hudson, 1990
Cloth and the Human Experience , Ed By Annette B. Weiner , and Jane
Schneider, Smithsonian Institute press, 1989.
Erica Wilson`s knitting book , Charles Scribner`s sons, 1988.
The Complete Book of Traditional Knitting , By Rae Compton , Batsford
,1983.
The art of Dress, clothers and society, 1500-1914, By Jane Ashford,
The National Trust, 1996.
A History of Handknitting , By Richard Rutt, Interweave press, 1987.
The Illustarted History of Textiles , ed By Madeleine Ginsburg ,
Portland house , 1991
The Fabric Catalog, By Martin Hardingham , A Wallby book, 1978.
Spinner Weber Kleidermacher , Rolf Momburg , Kurt Meier, 1998
Illustarted English social History By G.M. Trevelyan, Penguin books,
[rep] 1968 .
Archeology magazines ,, etc...

I must say i never Trust one book , i compare read matetrial , than go
check if they had different sources , and try to evalute those .
I also try and read Non textilic Information about guild rules , etc.
But of course i have to agree your thoughts are relevant ,, I only try
to not compare happenings and activities in the past, to our life
now.

=Tamar

--
hate spam not welcome