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watts/square foot lighting for dollhouses



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 4th 05, 09:12 AM
Glen Sayers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default watts/square foot lighting for dollhouses

could you possibly check

http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9
ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084
and make comment?

Really hard to get information for dollhouses.
cheers
Glen


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  #2  
Old July 4th 05, 09:37 AM
Glen Sayers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Well that didn't work but here's my question.
Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any
written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a logical
way to do it for me.
small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended wattage.
One big light = watts in one hit.
Can anyone suggest a starting point?
My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable starting
point.
Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm
looking to a safe starting point.





"Glen Sayers" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
could you possibly check


http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9
ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084
and make comment?

Really hard to get information for dollhouses.
cheers
Glen




  #3  
Old July 4th 05, 03:05 PM
Herb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Glen Sayers wrote:

could you possibly check

http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i... T&f=28&t=1084
and make comment?


Well that didn't work


It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another line.
You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use TINYURL
www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url.
Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link:

http://tinyurl.com/b5wry

but here's my question.
Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any
written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a logical
way to do it for me.


Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work!

It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors.

If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or room
(i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd consider
dozens of factors, such as
What's the room to be used for?
When is it to be used (at night or day)?
How good is the residents' eyesight?
What kind of ambiance is desired?
What color is the decorating scheme?
What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking, desk
work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows)
What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas,
Where is the lighting going to be placed?
How far away is it from the area to be lighted?
Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures?

For a dollhouse, some other factors:
Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house?
What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative)
What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse than
tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose.
What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly different
needs.
The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may overshadow (pun
NOT intended) the content of the room.

Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent bulb
produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If you must
measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or
teraphotons per nanosecond or ...

small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended wattage.
One big light = watts in one hit.


What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight or a
selection of well-placed smaller fixtures?

Can anyone suggest a starting point?
My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable starting
point.


Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being lighted? The
floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you need
more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it came
from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights

Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm
looking to a safe starting point.


There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than any
formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden lighting to
light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't produce a
lot of light, for a realistic look.

- Herb
  #4  
Old July 4th 05, 08:55 PM
Glen Sayers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks Herb.

The huge array of lights in the test box was so I could turn some off one at
a time (eight are switched) until I got down to what I want. Trouble is the
missus saw them and just went "Oh I want them all" so I came looking for
some sort of guide lines so I could talk her out of some. Never mind.



I'm on a $300 pawer supply (don't ask) so if it's too bright I can turn them
down.



Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite frankly,
there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner about
"how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf -
what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because if
your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless you go
back to a general input rule.

With planes we say, generally, 50watts/pound, sport flying, 80watts/pound
aerobatic and 100-120watts 3d/pound . Now we have all sorts of variations as
well but it's a starting point.

..



Just seems that the only way to learn is buy a kit. and that's not an option
for all. (I've never bought a plane or boat kit, it's just me.) Ideally I
look at some existing examples but that's proving harder than I thought to.
Just missed the big Easter display because I didn't know it was on etc etc.

Anyway. It's all fun and just toys in the end.

Just hope my little girl likes it!




"Herb" wrote in message
.. .
Glen Sayers wrote:

could you possibly check


http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9
ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084
and make comment?


Well that didn't work


It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another

line.
You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use

TINYURL
www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url.
Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link:

http://tinyurl.com/b5wry

but here's my question.
Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any
written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a

logical
way to do it for me.


Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work!

It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors.

If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or

room
(i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd

consider
dozens of factors, such as
What's the room to be used for?
When is it to be used (at night or day)?
How good is the residents' eyesight?
What kind of ambiance is desired?
What color is the decorating scheme?
What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking,

desk
work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows)
What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas,
Where is the lighting going to be placed?
How far away is it from the area to be lighted?
Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures?

For a dollhouse, some other factors:
Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house?
What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative)
What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse

than
tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose.
What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly

different
needs.
The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may overshadow

(pun
NOT intended) the content of the room.

Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent bulb
produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If

you must
measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or
teraphotons per nanosecond or ...

small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended

wattage.
One big light = watts in one hit.


What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight

or a
selection of well-placed smaller fixtures?

Can anyone suggest a starting point?
My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable

starting
point.


Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being lighted?

The
floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you

need
more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it

came
from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights

Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm
looking to a safe starting point.


There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than

any
formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden

lighting to
light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't

produce a
lot of light, for a realistic look.

- Herb



  #5  
Old July 4th 05, 10:47 PM
Gerald Miller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 07:55:38 +1200, "Glen Sayers"
wrote:




Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite frankly,
there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner about
"how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf -
what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because if
your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless you go
back to a general input rule.

Gerry's rule of the "wedding ring finger" - Use a grain of wheat
bulb wherever you would put a 60W bulb in the house in which you live.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
  #6  
Old July 4th 05, 11:08 PM
Herb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Glen -

Based on "average" bulbs and an "average" dollhouse, Cir-Kit offers a
"six-room" kit that includes a 10W, 12V transformer (if my memory of high school
physics is correct, that's about 800 mA), or about 1.6 watts per room - very
close to your estimate. But that won't account for flickering fireplaces,
working fountains, working ceiling fans, or faux-fluorescents that are about an
inch long and eat up the power.

Overall, the big difference between a dollhouse and reality is that the
dollhouse is for looking AT, so you do what looks good from the outside.

It's the brightness of each individual bulb that matters, not the total - too
bright and it will be glary and distracting. Too dim and it will look ... too
dim. Illumination is NOT the goal - appearance is! You can't expect overall
guidelines any more than you could get guidelines for oil painting. That's why
your wife likes the look of your ceiling as is - because it LOOKS GREAT!

There are LOTS of basic instructions out there - particularly with regard to
electrification. Books, web pages, and more. They're usually in terms of lights
per room, and mA per bulb for rating transformer requirements.

You're building a scale model, so the thickness of your construction materials
should be in scale, not measured for load-bearing. If you're building a toy
rather than a scale model, then sturdiness becomes more important.

Anyway, time to go enjoy an Independence Day BBQ!

- Herb





Thanks Herb.

The huge array of lights in the test box was so I could turn some off one at
a time (eight are switched) until I got down to what I want. Trouble is the
missus saw them and just went "Oh I want them all" so I came looking for
some sort of guide lines so I could talk her out of some. Never mind.

I'm on a $300 pawer supply (don't ask) so if it's too bright I can turn them
down.


Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite frankly,
there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner about
"how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf -
what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because if
your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless you go
back to a general input rule.

With planes we say, generally, 50watts/pound, sport flying, 80watts/pound
aerobatic and 100-120watts 3d/pound . Now we have all sorts of variations as
well but it's a starting point.

.



Just seems that the only way to learn is buy a kit. and that's not an option
for all. (I've never bought a plane or boat kit, it's just me.) Ideally I
look at some existing examples but that's proving harder than I thought to.
Just missed the big Easter display because I didn't know it was on etc etc.

Anyway. It's all fun and just toys in the end.

Just hope my little girl likes it!




"Herb" wrote in message
.. .

Glen Sayers wrote:

could you possibly check



http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9
ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084

and make comment?



Well that didn't work


It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another


line.

You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use


TINYURL

www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url.
Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link:

http://tinyurl.com/b5wry


but here's my question.
Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any
written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a


logical

way to do it for me.


Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work!

It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors.

If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or


room

(i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd


consider

dozens of factors, such as
What's the room to be used for?
When is it to be used (at night or day)?
How good is the residents' eyesight?
What kind of ambiance is desired?
What color is the decorating scheme?
What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking,


desk

work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows)
What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas,
Where is the lighting going to be placed?
How far away is it from the area to be lighted?
Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures?

For a dollhouse, some other factors:
Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house?
What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative)
What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse


than

tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose.
What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly


different

needs.
The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may overshadow


(pun

NOT intended) the content of the room.

Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent bulb
produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If


you must

measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or
teraphotons per nanosecond or ...


small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended


wattage.

One big light = watts in one hit.


What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight


or a

selection of well-placed smaller fixtures?


Can anyone suggest a starting point?
My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable


starting

point.


Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being lighted?


The

floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you


need

more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it


came

from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights


Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm
looking to a safe starting point.


There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than


any

formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden


lighting to

light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't


produce a

lot of light, for a realistic look.

- Herb




  #7  
Old July 5th 05, 06:28 AM
Glen Sayers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Awww crap. Working fountains! noone said I could have a working fountain!!!
I love water features, built a big waterfall, pond and bridge in the back
yard.

Ok a couple of things

First, one bonus of multiple down lighting was that when I stuck my hands in
the room there were no discernable shadows preventing me seeing what I was
doing while I placed things.

Secondly, thanks for the advice from both Heb and Gerald. Seems I am on the
right track. If a grain of wheat bulb is about a 60 watt bulb true life,
what might be a 100 watt bulb?



Last, changing topics

Talk about Common Sense. After I placed a few toys in my light box to get an
idea of brightness I let my little girl ( one year five months ) have a play
to see what she did. Her solution to the toys strategically placed in the
box? Climb right on in and pull them all to the front. Ever seen a one year
old climb into a box 1"x1.5"x2"deep? Almost died laughing.

But now I can see that my carefully placed bedrooms on the upper floor will
have everything taken out of them and put into what I thought was going to
be the family room.

OH well, it's her toy I guess. And my lights performed well. The bulbs
quietly pushed up into the holder while she played (climbed in) and dropped
back down when she pulled out.

Very satisfying.



"Herb" wrote in message
. ..
Glen -

Based on "average" bulbs and an "average" dollhouse, Cir-Kit offers

a
"six-room" kit that includes a 10W, 12V transformer (if my memory of high

school
physics is correct, that's about 800 mA), or about 1.6 watts per room -

very
close to your estimate. But that won't account for flickering fireplaces,
working fountains, working ceiling fans, or faux-fluorescents that are

about an
inch long and eat up the power.

Overall, the big difference between a dollhouse and reality is that the
dollhouse is for looking AT, so you do what looks good from the outside.

It's the brightness of each individual bulb that matters, not the total -

too
bright and it will be glary and distracting. Too dim and it will look ...

too
dim. Illumination is NOT the goal - appearance is! You can't expect

overall
guidelines any more than you could get guidelines for oil painting.

That's why
your wife likes the look of your ceiling as is - because it LOOKS GREAT!

There are LOTS of basic instructions out there - particularly with regard

to
electrification. Books, web pages, and more. They're usually in terms of

lights
per room, and mA per bulb for rating transformer requirements.

You're building a scale model, so the thickness of your construction

materials
should be in scale, not measured for load-bearing. If you're building a

toy
rather than a scale model, then sturdiness becomes more important.

Anyway, time to go enjoy an Independence Day BBQ!

- Herb





Thanks Herb.

The huge array of lights in the test box was so I could turn some off

one at
a time (eight are switched) until I got down to what I want. Trouble is

the
missus saw them and just went "Oh I want them all" so I came looking for
some sort of guide lines so I could talk her out of some. Never mind.

I'm on a $300 pawer supply (don't ask) so if it's too bright I can turn

them
down.


Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite

frankly,
there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner

about
"how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf -
what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because

if
your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless

you go
back to a general input rule.

With planes we say, generally, 50watts/pound, sport flying,

80watts/pound
aerobatic and 100-120watts 3d/pound . Now we have all sorts of

variations as
well but it's a starting point.

.



Just seems that the only way to learn is buy a kit. and that's not an

option
for all. (I've never bought a plane or boat kit, it's just me.) Ideally

I
look at some existing examples but that's proving harder than I thought

to.
Just missed the big Easter display because I didn't know it was on etc

etc.

Anyway. It's all fun and just toys in the end.

Just hope my little girl likes it!




"Herb" wrote in message
.. .

Glen Sayers wrote:

could you possibly check



http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9
ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084

and make comment?


Well that didn't work

It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another


line.

You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use


TINYURL

www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url.
Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link:

http://tinyurl.com/b5wry


but here's my question.
Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any
written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a


logical

way to do it for me.

Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work!

It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors.

If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or


room

(i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd


consider

dozens of factors, such as
What's the room to be used for?
When is it to be used (at night or day)?
How good is the residents' eyesight?
What kind of ambiance is desired?
What color is the decorating scheme?
What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking,


desk

work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows)
What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas,
Where is the lighting going to be placed?
How far away is it from the area to be lighted?
Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures?

For a dollhouse, some other factors:
Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house?
What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative)
What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse


than

tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose.
What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly


different

needs.
The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may

overshadow

(pun

NOT intended) the content of the room.

Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent

bulb
produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If


you must

measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or
teraphotons per nanosecond or ...


small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended


wattage.

One big light = watts in one hit.

What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight


or a

selection of well-placed smaller fixtures?


Can anyone suggest a starting point?
My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable


starting

point.

Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being

lighted?

The

floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you


need

more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it


came

from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights


Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm
looking to a safe starting point.

There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than


any

formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden


lighting to

light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't


produce a

lot of light, for a realistic look.

- Herb






  #8  
Old July 18th 05, 12:18 AM
Zero
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

  #9  
Old July 18th 05, 09:31 AM
Jackie T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Hello Glen,
Just had to say what a fantastic job you're doing on your house project;
I've really enjoyed reading through your web page.
Glad your staircase finally arrived!
Please let us know when you add more pics.
Jackie

http://tinyurl.com/b5wry



 




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