You know what? Crucify me, but it's true

Dawn

you are right on about leaves - leaves have been made by lampworkers
for YEARS -- leaf mashers have been in the tool catalogs for as long as
I remember -
nobody can "copy leaves" -- they are generic.
so are bumpy beads
the fact you call yours, for marketing" seaurchins
is merely a descriptive name...
bumpy beads are bumpy beads... LOL

as for the seashells - you aren't the first to do seashells either.
in fact Kate Fowle - a well-known lampworker was quite famous for her
beautiful seashells - oh maybe 7 or 8 years ago. I think she probably
taught a few students to do them. I know she taught her stone (enamel
) with barnacle technique too.

I made seashells - years ago -- I still have a couple of "seconds" that
I didn't sell lurking around in my box.
in fact here is an old SCAN of one of my early shells (can tell it's
old - it was done on my scanner instead of a digital pic)
http://www.dragonbeads.com/murex.jpg
I made that probably FOUR YEARS AGO
Can I make seashells ? - yup.....
Would I feel uncomfortable selling seashell lampwork beads right now -
because of yours ? yeah -- probably....
Even though I know that you are not the "first" to do lampwork
seashells --
Have I been "copied" by other lampworkers? Yup....
that's gonna happen...
the whole thing is irritating..
but not worth the pain and passion....

The issue with Starlia, for most people, appears to be really more
about personal issues than it is about artistic issues.

Cheryl

~Such as the infamous lemur bite?
I mean, c'mon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Exactly. Despite searches, there has been no documentation of a lemur
bite in Texas found during the time specified.

~The issue with Starlia, for most people, appears to be really more
about personal issues than it is about artistic issues.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Right. And I'm starting to feel regret about giving any examples,
because everyone keeps picking them apart. They were simply
*examples*, not definitive, court-ready copyright-infringement proof.
As I said, I could come up with a zillion more, but I had to go fix
dinner.

Keep reading the thread, Cheryl. I'd be interested to see what you
think of the rest of it.

Hi Cheryl,
Oh my gosh! I certainly didn't mean to insinuate that I was the first person
to do seashells! Heavens no! I'm sure they've been done for eons. In my
opinion, it's just another shape really, just like the ruffle or the lentil
or the bumpy bead. And I truly wish you wouldn't feel uncomfortable about
selling any of your shells because of mine. I really do love seeing all the
different variations of shell beads out there. I'm sure that anything I've
done so far, and probably will ever do has been done before. My only hope is
that I can continue to create freely without coming so close to someone
else's beads that it appears disrespectful.
I guess I got caught up in looking at the photos and missed the main point
of this thread, which I realize now is about bad business practices in
general, and went on to ramble on about my own feelings about the subject of
copying.

--
Dawn
"Art Insomnia"
Web Site http://www.art-insomnia.com
Auctions http://snipurl.com/my_ebay
"Cheryl" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dawn

you are right on about leaves - leaves have been made by lampworkers
for YEARS -- leaf mashers have been in the tool catalogs for as long as
I remember -
nobody can "copy leaves" -- they are generic.
so are bumpy beads
the fact you call yours, for marketing" seaurchins
is merely a descriptive name...
bumpy beads are bumpy beads... LOL

as for the seashells - you aren't the first to do seashells either.
in fact Kate Fowle - a well-known lampworker was quite famous for her
beautiful seashells - oh maybe 7 or 8 years ago. I think she probably
taught a few students to do them. I know she taught her stone (enamel
) with barnacle technique too.

I made seashells - years ago -- I still have a couple of "seconds" that
I didn't sell lurking around in my box.
in fact here is an old SCAN of one of my early shells (can tell it's
old - it was done on my scanner instead of a digital pic)
http://www.dragonbeads.com/murex.jpg
I made that probably FOUR YEARS AGO
Can I make seashells ? - yup.....
Would I feel uncomfortable selling seashell lampwork beads right now -
because of yours ? yeah -- probably....
Even though I know that you are not the "first" to do lampwork
seashells --
Have I been "copied" by other lampworkers? Yup....
that's gonna happen...
the whole thing is irritating..
but not worth the pain and passion....

The issue with Starlia, for most people, appears to be really more
about personal issues than it is about artistic issues.

Cheryl

You insinuated it on Lampwork, Etc. Unfortunately I can't reference it,
because I believe it was in the Bathroom area and has since been flushed.
(For those who don't know, the Bathroom is the venting part of the forum and
all threads are removed daily).

As for business dealings - there are people who have paid for auctions you
had before you went awol who have never received items or refunds. There's
more than just that. There are a lot of people claiming that you are not
answering emails.

I know I am looking at this from the outside in, but there are so many
people that they can't all be mistaken. So many separate issues that they
all can't be a coincidence.


--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net

Kandice - When did I ever say I didn't care if I was copying? I don't
think I've insinated such a thing. I don't want you to feel like an
idiot because all my past dealings have been accounted for, at least I
think they all have except for Linda's.

I'm trying to clear things up and I'm here. I have a lot of things
going on right now, Trinkett is sick, a friend is in the hospital, etc.

Not in the least, Dawn. You've put your own voice into the techniques
described. You use different colors, different designs, a different style.
This is just a pattern with Starlia. By itself, it's not as big of a deal.
Coupled with her business practices in the last year or so, it's just the
last straw.

--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net

Here's another example. Kandice is known for her gorgeous
flower beads. Although I think there's no one that does them as beautiful
as
hers, I kind of doubt that she was the very first person to ever do a
flower
like that. Now I occasionally do flowers like hers on my beads, because
her
beautiful beads inspire me, but I would be heartsick to think that Kandice
would think I was intentionally trying to copy her. Now if I did, for
example, a mint green bead with pink swirls melted in, and pink flowers on
top, then yes, THAT would be a copy, and I would never think of doing
that.

Yes, yes, exactly.

--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net

But it's not the derivativeness of her work that's chilled me. It's the
endless, recurring *problems* that are all indicative of a deeper ethical
issue. I don't want to argue whether X set is a copy, because that's not
provable. I am disillusioned because of the general tendency toward
unethical/untruthful behavior. There are too many little things... yes,
all of them explained away... that don't add up. I can't regenerate faith
in her because I don't believe her words anymore.

I am a licensed Texas attorney and a personal friend of Starlia. It is
my opinion that many of the posts in this thread are libelous.

Also, The Texas Deceptive Trade Practice Act, (BUSINESS & COMMERCE CODE
CHAPTER 17. DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES, ? 17.46. DECEPTIVE TRADE
PRACTICES, (b) (8)) provides that ?disparaging the goods, services, or
business of another by false or misleading representation of facts? is
illegal and persons engaging in such practices can be sued for damages.


You folks may want to reconsider what you are writing about Starlia
here.

Well, I don't agree. Libel is only libel if we are knowingly spreading
false accusations. We believe the statements are true, and there is proof
of that. If Starlia wants to sue for damages, she has that right, but
considering that there is documented evidence of her dishonest business
practices, I don't think she would win.

--
Kandice Seeber
www.lampwork.net


I am a licensed Texas attorney and a personal friend of Starlia. It is
my opinion that many of the posts in this thread are libelous.

Also, The Texas Deceptive Trade Practice Act, (BUSINESS & COMMERCE CODE
CHAPTER 17. DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES, ? 17.46. DECEPTIVE TRADE
PRACTICES, (b) (8)) provides that ?disparaging the goods, services, or
business of another by false or misleading representation of facts? is
illegal and persons engaging in such practices can be sued for damages.


You folks may want to reconsider what you are writing about Starlia
here.

If she chooses to do that, I will certainly be happy to represent her
pro bono if she wishes and we can look over your "evidence" at the
courthouse.