OT - No diversity = good?

One of my daughter's friends moved away to a rural area far from
here. Manda and this girl miss one another very much, and would like
the girl to visit. Unfortunately, the father has been unable to find
a job in the new community, and money is tight.

I found this out because my daughter came to us with a proposal: she
would give up any/all Christmas and Birthday gifts if we would buy
her friend an airplane ticket to visit over the holiday break. I
said I couldn't guarantee anything, but I would look. The prices
aren't all that bad, so I told Manda okay; IF I could talk the
parents into allowing it.

Last night, I called the mom, and wow - was that an education. First
of all, the mother started telling me how wonderful their new
community had been to them. (great! - glad to hear it) Then she
started saying that white people were getting to be a minority in my
community (ummm. yeah, and what of it?) This quickly degraded into a
rant about how they've finally found a place where they only have to
see and deal with white people. (Arrrrgh! What happened to her? I
always thought she was a normal person)

The upshot: her daugher will not be allowed to visit our racially
mixed city for holiday break, although Amanda is welcome to visit
their totally white community at any time. I'm of two minds about
that: I don't want Amanda to lose a valuable friendship with this
girl (who does not feel the same way as her mother does), but I don't
want to give the impression that I agree with what her mother
espouses.

The saddest thing is that I once shared her world view, sort of. The
city we live in was once 110% white, and it was well known that
non-whites were not welcome here. As I grew up and saw the world, I
realized what a stupid way that was to live. Every culture has
something valuable to add, if you give them a chance to show it.
Since then, our town has become a very diverse place, and I'm
delighted that my daugher won't grow up as sheltered and ignorant as
I did.

To Amanda, people come in all colors and always have. I love that.
My heart is breaking because Manda's poor friend is likely going to
lose the advantages she had as a young girl, and will end up thinking
the same way her mother does.

Thoughts? Comments? Any words to soothe my aching soul?

Kathy N-V

Oh Kathy, what a tough situation! Having grown up in a "transitional"
neighborhood, thinking and feeling as your Manda does but having friends who
were raised differently, here are my thoughts.

First, sending Manda to visit with her friend doesn't HAVE to be an official
or unofficial condoning of her friends' parents ideology. Instead, think of
it as a covert op to shore up Manda's friend's differing beliefs. Having
someone like Manda around will probably be the best kind of antidote to that
narrow-mindedness. (I'm just hoping that Manda will be savvy enough to not
become a crusader to her host-parents, thereby maybe ending the visit and/or
chances for future visits...but the way you describe Manda I figure she'll
clue in to the best way to handle things pretty fast.)

Second, think of it this way....what would you do if Manda's friend still
lived nearby, but you knew they held those negative feelings? Would you keep
Manda from visiting a few blocks away? I think it becomes a matter of not
visiting the sins of the father upon the child. G

So, think of this visit as virtuous contamination instead of condoning. G
And just maybe Manda will manage to widen a few extra horizons while she's
visiting. Knowing her roots, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

KarenK

I'm leaving Karen's response intact, as it deserves another read. I
was trying to figure out how to respond to Kathy's post... sitting
here with bleary Sunday-morning eyes... and Karen solved my dilemma by
saying exactly what I would have, had I been higher-functioning this
morning.

Well said!

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:12:17 -0700, "Karen_AZ"
wrote:

Oh Kathy, what a tough situation! Having grown up in a "transitional"
neighborhood, thinking and feeling as your Manda does but having friends who
were raised differently, here are my thoughts.

First, sending Manda to visit with her friend doesn't HAVE to be an official
or unofficial condoning of her friends' parents ideology. Instead, think of
it as a covert op to shore up Manda's friend's differing beliefs. Having
someone like Manda around will probably be the best kind of antidote to that
narrow-mindedness. (I'm just hoping that Manda will be savvy enough to not
become a crusader to her host-parents, thereby maybe ending the visit and/or
chances for future visits...but the way you describe Manda I figure she'll
clue in to the best way to handle things pretty fast.)

Second, think of it this way....what would you do if Manda's friend still
lived nearby, but you knew they held those negative feelings? Would you keep
Manda from visiting a few blocks away? I think it becomes a matter of not
visiting the sins of the father upon the child. G

So, think of this visit as virtuous contamination instead of condoning. G
And just maybe Manda will manage to widen a few extra horizons while she's
visiting. Knowing her roots, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

KarenK



Tink
Check here for available work:
http://blackswampglassworks.com/latest.htm

Wow. Hard to believe there are people like that. Although, when I visited
my friend in Salt Lake, I felt like a minority. Lol. Everyone was blonde
and white, and there I was a brunette. I think that's the first time I've
been someplace that was so white. It did seem odd.

I think this girl needs Manda in her life to keep her eyes somewhat open to
reality!

--
Jerri
www.beadbimbo.com
"Kathy N-V" wrote in message
.com...
One of my daughter's friends moved away to a rural area far from
here. Manda and this girl miss one another very much, and would like
the girl to visit. Unfortunately, the father has been unable to find
a job in the new community, and money is tight.

I found this out because my daughter came to us with a proposal: she
would give up any/all Christmas and Birthday gifts if we would buy
her friend an airplane ticket to visit over the holiday break. I
said I couldn't guarantee anything, but I would look. The prices
aren't all that bad, so I told Manda okay; IF I could talk the
parents into allowing it.

Last night, I called the mom, and wow - was that an education. First
of all, the mother started telling me how wonderful their new
community had been to them. (great! - glad to hear it) Then she
started saying that white people were getting to be a minority in my
community (ummm. yeah, and what of it?) This quickly degraded into a
rant about how they've finally found a place where they only have to
see and deal with white people. (Arrrrgh! What happened to her? I
always thought she was a normal person)

The upshot: her daugher will not be allowed to visit our racially
mixed city for holiday break, although Amanda is welcome to visit
their totally white community at any time. I'm of two minds about
that: I don't want Amanda to lose a valuable friendship with this
girl (who does not feel the same way as her mother does), but I don't
want to give the impression that I agree with what her mother
espouses.

The saddest thing is that I once shared her world view, sort of. The
city we live in was once 110% white, and it was well known that
non-whites were not welcome here. As I grew up and saw the world, I
realized what a stupid way that was to live. Every culture has
something valuable to add, if you give them a chance to show it.
Since then, our town has become a very diverse place, and I'm
delighted that my daugher won't grow up as sheltered and ignorant as
I did.

To Amanda, people come in all colors and always have. I love that.
My heart is breaking because Manda's poor friend is likely going to
lose the advantages she had as a young girl, and will end up thinking
the same way her mother does.

Thoughts? Comments? Any words to soothe my aching soul?

Kathy N-V

I'm glad that Manda has you for a mother instead of the racist idiot her
poor friend has for one.
-Ellen

And I should add that Manda's friend is lucky to have Manda - maybe that
will help stave off inheriting the mother's mindset.
-Ellen

Wish I had some words of wisdom to offer, but I'm coming up dry.
Unfortunately, there seem to be more and more people who feel that way,
and aren't shy about voicing those beliefs.

I have a nephew who went somewhere in the southwest for his senior year
of high school. He told us that one day an announcement came over the
PA that "a young Hispanic male had been seen on campus" and warned all
the students to keep an eye out for him, and to be careful. No crime
had been committed, nothing untoward had happened; just that he was
there. My nephew came back to Chicago soon after.

Cheers,
Carla

Kathy N-V wrote:

One of my daughter's friends moved away to a rural area far from
here. Manda and this girl miss one another very much, and would like
the girl to visit. Unfortunately, the father has been unable to find
a job in the new community, and money is tight.

I found this out because my daughter came to us with a proposal: she
would give up any/all Christmas and Birthday gifts if we would buy
her friend an airplane ticket to visit over the holiday break. I
said I couldn't guarantee anything, but I would look. The prices
aren't all that bad, so I told Manda okay; IF I could talk the
parents into allowing it.

Last night, I called the mom, and wow - was that an education. First
of all, the mother started telling me how wonderful their new
community had been to them. (great! - glad to hear it) Then she
started saying that white people were getting to be a minority in my
community (ummm. yeah, and what of it?) This quickly degraded into a
rant about how they've finally found a place where they only have to
see and deal with white people. (Arrrrgh! What happened to her? I
always thought she was a normal person)

The upshot: her daugher will not be allowed to visit our racially
mixed city for holiday break, although Amanda is welcome to visit
their totally white community at any time. I'm of two minds about
that: I don't want Amanda to lose a valuable friendship with this
girl (who does not feel the same way as her mother does), but I don't
want to give the impression that I agree with what her mother
espouses.

The saddest thing is that I once shared her world view, sort of. The
city we live in was once 110% white, and it was well known that
non-whites were not welcome here. As I grew up and saw the world, I
realized what a stupid way that was to live. Every culture has
something valuable to add, if you give them a chance to show it.
Since then, our town has become a very diverse place, and I'm
delighted that my daugher won't grow up as sheltered and ignorant as
I did.

To Amanda, people come in all colors and always have. I love that.
My heart is breaking because Manda's poor friend is likely going to
lose the advantages she had as a young girl, and will end up thinking
the same way her mother does.

Thoughts? Comments? Any words to soothe my aching soul?

Kathy N-V

I feel like starting this post by quoting Karen's entire post!

When my dad grew up in Oakland, it was almost completely white. With some
indians and some Californios (Spanish Californians) thrown in. When I grew
up there, blacks had become a small but significant minority. Through my
childhood, whites became the minority. One of the special things about
Oakland is that different ethnicities live all mixed together, not in a
cluster of enclaves (Chinatown, Little Italy, etc) but all mooshed together.
I like that for a way to live.

If it's any consolation, the friend's mom is such an anachronism, I don't
see how the daughter could really fall prey to those ideas. Especially
since she was exposed to diversity in her formative years.

Tina


"Kathy N-V" wrote in message
.com...
One of my daughter's friends moved away to a rural area far from
here. Manda and this girl miss one another very much, and would like
the girl to visit. Unfortunately, the father has been unable to find
a job in the new community, and money is tight.

I found this out because my daughter came to us with a proposal: she
would give up any/all Christmas and Birthday gifts if we would buy
her friend an airplane ticket to visit over the holiday break. I
said I couldn't guarantee anything, but I would look. The prices
aren't all that bad, so I told Manda okay; IF I could talk the
parents into allowing it.

Last night, I called the mom, and wow - was that an education. First
of all, the mother started telling me how wonderful their new
community had been to them. (great! - glad to hear it) Then she
started saying that white people were getting to be a minority in my
community (ummm. yeah, and what of it?) This quickly degraded into a
rant about how they've finally found a place where they only have to
see and deal with white people. (Arrrrgh! What happened to her? I
always thought she was a normal person)

The upshot: her daugher will not be allowed to visit our racially
mixed city for holiday break, although Amanda is welcome to visit
their totally white community at any time. I'm of two minds about
that: I don't want Amanda to lose a valuable friendship with this
girl (who does not feel the same way as her mother does), but I don't
want to give the impression that I agree with what her mother
espouses.

The saddest thing is that I once shared her world view, sort of. The
city we live in was once 110% white, and it was well known that
non-whites were not welcome here. As I grew up and saw the world, I
realized what a stupid way that was to live. Every culture has
something valuable to add, if you give them a chance to show it.
Since then, our town has become a very diverse place, and I'm
delighted that my daugher won't grow up as sheltered and ignorant as
I did.

To Amanda, people come in all colors and always have. I love that.
My heart is breaking because Manda's poor friend is likely going to
lose the advantages she had as a young girl, and will end up thinking
the same way her mother does.

Thoughts? Comments? Any words to soothe my aching soul?

Kathy N-V

Kathy,

Wow,
How sad.

It is human nature to temporarily withdraw from that which is different,
that's where our brains are supposed to take over and get over that intial
reaction/rejection.

In Appleton, WI we have a huge Hmong community. It is really interesting
because their history is very compelling and their world view is completely
different than ours. If this interests you, read the book "The Spirit
Catches You, and you Fall Down". We still don't have a lot of African
Amercians , but we do have quite a few Mexican immigrants.

I agree that diversity is very important and feel sorry for Mandy's friend,
but there is not a whole heck of a lot you can do for her, short of
kidnapping. Keep the connection open between the girls, which is easy to do
now with IM, etc.

KathyH
"Kathy N-V" wrote in message
.com...
One of my daughter's friends moved away to a rural area far from
here. Manda and this girl miss one another very much, and would like
the girl to visit. Unfortunately, the father has been unable to find
a job in the new community, and money is tight.

I found this out because my daughter came to us with a proposal: she
would give up any/all Christmas and Birthday gifts if we would buy
her friend an airplane ticket to visit over the holiday break. I
said I couldn't guarantee anything, but I would look. The prices
aren't all that bad, so I told Manda okay; IF I could talk the
parents into allowing it.

Last night, I called the mom, and wow - was that an education. First
of all, the mother started telling me how wonderful their new
community had been to them. (great! - glad to hear it) Then she
started saying that white people were getting to be a minority in my
community (ummm. yeah, and what of it?) This quickly degraded into a
rant about how they've finally found a place where they only have to
see and deal with white people. (Arrrrgh! What happened to her? I
always thought she was a normal person)

The upshot: her daugher will not be allowed to visit our racially
mixed city for holiday break, although Amanda is welcome to visit
their totally white community at any time. I'm of two minds about
that: I don't want Amanda to lose a valuable friendship with this
girl (who does not feel the same way as her mother does), but I don't
want to give the impression that I agree with what her mother
espouses.

The saddest thing is that I once shared her world view, sort of. The
city we live in was once 110% white, and it was well known that
non-whites were not welcome here. As I grew up and saw the world, I
realized what a stupid way that was to live. Every culture has
something valuable to add, if you give them a chance to show it.
Since then, our town has become a very diverse place, and I'm
delighted that my daugher won't grow up as sheltered and ignorant as
I did.

To Amanda, people come in all colors and always have. I love that.
My heart is breaking because Manda's poor friend is likely going to
lose the advantages she had as a young girl, and will end up thinking
the same way her mother does.

Thoughts? Comments? Any words to soothe my aching soul?

Kathy N-V

Kathy NV wrote
(snipped)
My heart is breaking because Manda's poor friend is likely going to
lose the advantages she had as a young girl, and will end up thinking
the same way her mother does.

Unfortunately, I grew up with a mother like Manda's friend's. But, I took
after my Dad who was much more open minded. Even from an early age, I knew my
mother's way was not correct.
I was fortunate to grow up in the 50's and 60's in the town which was later
the model for integration, Princeton.
In 1960 I spent the summer in the south, ( before the Civil Rights Act of
1964). Let me tell you, it was an education. It was very hard for me, but
I've never forgotten it either.
I would talk to Manda and explain what her friend's mother is like and see if
she still wants to go under those circumstances.
Patti