OT - coffee and condos, impressed and worried, respectively!!!!

First, thanks to I guess Heidi who started the tip-off about the Toddy
coffee.

Got my brewer earlier this week, and I'm only adding my adulations to
everyone else's! I really enjoy GOOD coffee, and resort to poor coffee
out of my habit of wanting a hot drink on hand while working, but wow,
never again! I figure I'll have paid for the Toddy in a month with
what I'm NOT spending on poor-quality take-out. I take one cup with me
when I leave, and pop a little Tupperware 4oz container of concentrate
in my lunch bag for my second cup. That's $3.10 I didn't spend on Tim
Horton's sludge.

I have always had heartburn issues and have NEVER been able to drink
coffee black - unsweetened, yes, but not without milk. Until just now!
It makes a great cup. I like dark roast, strong coffee, so quickly
found I prefer to mix 1:2 concentrate:water, but even at that I bet I'm
saving $10 week making my own.

Now, on to the "worried" - my excitement over our loft condo purchase
got deflated in the middle of the night Thursday. After getting
financing with no problem, and the inspection being a cakewalk, I got
the condo documentation and the lawyer didn't spot anything
problematic, but it's a damn good thing *I* read these things - they
explicitly permit ONLY two pets "without prior written approval of the
board".

The sound of screeching brakes went off in my head. I have 3 QI's at
present and it was not beyond imagination that I might want a 4th again
some day.

NOW, I'm a bit annoyed to find this in the by-laws, BECAUSE I have
investigated these buildings before. I spoke with the sales rep when
they were being built, and have spoken with other resident-owners
since, as has my agent. The FIRST thing I always ask a landlord, an
agent, or a condo manager is "ARE THERE ANY RESTRICTIONS RELATED TO
PETS". And that is more-or-less how I phrase it. I don't tell them I
have multiple pets or what kind, I don't give them the chance to judge
me a "crazy cat lady" before they tell ME what the rules are, but I
give them a nice, open, inviting question so that they can explain
policies to me.

When I asked that question of the builder's sales rep, the answer
was... wait for it... "NO". Not, "only two pets allowed", not "with
board approval", not "some, but we feel its reasonable", she said NO.
Then she went on to explain how a majority of the owners already have
pets (she used the plural) and she smiled and waived at a lady walking
by in the hallway with a Rottweiler (a breed I find specifically
prohibited in these same by-laws). And at no time did the seller or
our agent, both of whom knew we are a 3-cat family, mention anything.

I got our agent and our lawyer on notice right away (in the middle of
the night) and my agent, with whom we're most happy, chased down the
condo president and left him voicemails on Friday. No word back yet,
but we're hoping to talk on Monday.

I am alternating between outright panic and calm conviction that it's
only a formality, without alot of middle ground to my emotional state.
As a pet person who has found other people's standards of care for pets
lacking, I do completely understand the need for "good neighbour"
guidelines in a communal property. But of course at moments like
these, every tale you've ever heard about unreasonable, dictatorial
condo boards staffed by insane old ladies with a special hate for
anything but their own toy poodle. And I often fall into the rant
asking who the heck decided that normal people have two cats while
having 3 or 4 makes you a candidate for a mental ward? Some people
cannot adequately care for a single small dog, and I've known people
who provide a healthy and perfectly livable home while housing 10 cats.
"2" is not a magic number.

Please keep some fingers crossed for me that I'll be speaking with a
reasonable board who wrote in the "without written approval" clause (it
was a later amendment to the original restriction) just so they could
accomodate folk like us without undue grief. I will NOT dispose of any
animal in favour of a material posession, but I'd also be crushed to
lose my perfect first home - and possibly my LARGE deposit - over this.

Johanna "not without my cats, dammit!" B.

I hear ya! I have had as many as seven house dogs- five large ones in
that pack- and never had sanitation, oder, or barking problems.
Several folks around here- rural area- have one dog and they are
constant problems. Running loose, getting into trash, barking all
night, tearing up the landscaping I worked so hard on, stealing shoes
off our front porch, teasing my dogs within their fence, etc. My vet
once told me he never has problems with the animals- it's the owners
who drive him crazy.

Fight for your rights... and best of luck to y'all and the kitties.

Leslie & The Furbabies (three house dogs and one outdoor cat) in MO.

FurrsomeThreesome wrote:
First, thanks to I guess Heidi who started the tip-off about the Toddy
coffee.

Got my brewer earlier this week, and I'm only adding my adulations to
everyone else's! I really enjoy GOOD coffee, and resort to poor coffee
out of my habit of wanting a hot drink on hand while working, but wow,
never again! I figure I'll have paid for the Toddy in a month with
what I'm NOT spending on poor-quality take-out. I take one cup with me
when I leave, and pop a little Tupperware 4oz container of concentrate
in my lunch bag for my second cup. That's $3.10 I didn't spend on Tim
Horton's sludge.

I have always had heartburn issues and have NEVER been able to drink
coffee black - unsweetened, yes, but not without milk. Until just now!
It makes a great cup. I like dark roast, strong coffee, so quickly
found I prefer to mix 1:2 concentrate:water, but even at that I bet I'm
saving $10 week making my own.

Now, on to the "worried" - my excitement over our loft condo purchase
got deflated in the middle of the night Thursday. After getting
financing with no problem, and the inspection being a cakewalk, I got
the condo documentation and the lawyer didn't spot anything
problematic, but it's a damn good thing *I* read these things - they
explicitly permit ONLY two pets "without prior written approval of the
board".

The sound of screeching brakes went off in my head. I have 3 QI's at
present and it was not beyond imagination that I might want a 4th again
some day.

NOW, I'm a bit annoyed to find this in the by-laws, BECAUSE I have
investigated these buildings before. I spoke with the sales rep when
they were being built, and have spoken with other resident-owners
since, as has my agent. The FIRST thing I always ask a landlord, an
agent, or a condo manager is "ARE THERE ANY RESTRICTIONS RELATED TO
PETS". And that is more-or-less how I phrase it. I don't tell them I
have multiple pets or what kind, I don't give them the chance to judge
me a "crazy cat lady" before they tell ME what the rules are, but I
give them a nice, open, inviting question so that they can explain
policies to me.

When I asked that question of the builder's sales rep, the answer
was... wait for it... "NO". Not, "only two pets allowed", not "with
board approval", not "some, but we feel its reasonable", she said NO.
Then she went on to explain how a majority of the owners already have
pets (she used the plural) and she smiled and waived at a lady walking
by in the hallway with a Rottweiler (a breed I find specifically
prohibited in these same by-laws). And at no time did the seller or
our agent, both of whom knew we are a 3-cat family, mention anything.

I got our agent and our lawyer on notice right away (in the middle of
the night) and my agent, with whom we're most happy, chased down the
condo president and left him voicemails on Friday. No word back yet,
but we're hoping to talk on Monday.

I am alternating between outright panic and calm conviction that it's
only a formality, without alot of middle ground to my emotional state.
As a pet person who has found other people's standards of care for pets
lacking, I do completely understand the need for "good neighbour"
guidelines in a communal property. But of course at moments like
these, every tale you've ever heard about unreasonable, dictatorial
condo boards staffed by insane old ladies with a special hate for
anything but their own toy poodle. And I often fall into the rant
asking who the heck decided that normal people have two cats while
having 3 or 4 makes you a candidate for a mental ward? Some people
cannot adequately care for a single small dog, and I've known people
who provide a healthy and perfectly livable home while housing 10 cats.
"2" is not a magic number.

Please keep some fingers crossed for me that I'll be speaking with a
reasonable board who wrote in the "without written approval" clause (it
was a later amendment to the original restriction) just so they could
accomodate folk like us without undue grief. I will NOT dispose of any
animal in favour of a material posession, but I'd also be crushed to
lose my perfect first home - and possibly my LARGE deposit - over this.

Johanna "not without my cats, dammit!" B.

((((hugs))))

I hear you on the cat issue - we used to have 9 cats at one point having
been adopted by so many - well one is adopted when ca cat walks in and
refuses to leave.

you can always site that you only signed the agreement after you asked and
were told there were no restrictions - you signed the agreement under false
pretences after all.

--
Jessamy
In The Netherlands
Take out: so much quilting to reply.
Time to accept, time to grow, time to take things slow
www.geocities.com/jess_ayad
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jes...pson/my_photos
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, thanks to I guess Heidi who started the tip-off about the Toddy
coffee.

Got my brewer earlier this week, and I'm only adding my adulations to
everyone else's! I really enjoy GOOD coffee, and resort to poor coffee
out of my habit of wanting a hot drink on hand while working, but wow,
never again! I figure I'll have paid for the Toddy in a month with
what I'm NOT spending on poor-quality take-out. I take one cup with me
when I leave, and pop a little Tupperware 4oz container of concentrate
in my lunch bag for my second cup. That's $3.10 I didn't spend on Tim
Horton's sludge.

I have always had heartburn issues and have NEVER been able to drink
coffee black - unsweetened, yes, but not without milk. Until just now!
It makes a great cup. I like dark roast, strong coffee, so quickly
found I prefer to mix 1:2 concentrate:water, but even at that I bet I'm
saving $10 week making my own.

Now, on to the "worried" - my excitement over our loft condo purchase
got deflated in the middle of the night Thursday. After getting
financing with no problem, and the inspection being a cakewalk, I got
the condo documentation and the lawyer didn't spot anything
problematic, but it's a damn good thing *I* read these things - they
explicitly permit ONLY two pets "without prior written approval of the
board".

The sound of screeching brakes went off in my head. I have 3 QI's at
present and it was not beyond imagination that I might want a 4th again
some day.

NOW, I'm a bit annoyed to find this in the by-laws, BECAUSE I have
investigated these buildings before. I spoke with the sales rep when
they were being built, and have spoken with other resident-owners
since, as has my agent. The FIRST thing I always ask a landlord, an
agent, or a condo manager is "ARE THERE ANY RESTRICTIONS RELATED TO
PETS". And that is more-or-less how I phrase it. I don't tell them I
have multiple pets or what kind, I don't give them the chance to judge
me a "crazy cat lady" before they tell ME what the rules are, but I
give them a nice, open, inviting question so that they can explain
policies to me.

When I asked that question of the builder's sales rep, the answer
was... wait for it... "NO". Not, "only two pets allowed", not "with
board approval", not "some, but we feel its reasonable", she said NO.
Then she went on to explain how a majority of the owners already have
pets (she used the plural) and she smiled and waived at a lady walking
by in the hallway with a Rottweiler (a breed I find specifically
prohibited in these same by-laws). And at no time did the seller or
our agent, both of whom knew we are a 3-cat family, mention anything.

I got our agent and our lawyer on notice right away (in the middle of
the night) and my agent, with whom we're most happy, chased down the
condo president and left him voicemails on Friday. No word back yet,
but we're hoping to talk on Monday.

I am alternating between outright panic and calm conviction that it's
only a formality, without alot of middle ground to my emotional state.
As a pet person who has found other people's standards of care for pets
lacking, I do completely understand the need for "good neighbour"
guidelines in a communal property. But of course at moments like
these, every tale you've ever heard about unreasonable, dictatorial
condo boards staffed by insane old ladies with a special hate for
anything but their own toy poodle. And I often fall into the rant
asking who the heck decided that normal people have two cats while
having 3 or 4 makes you a candidate for a mental ward? Some people
cannot adequately care for a single small dog, and I've known people
who provide a healthy and perfectly livable home while housing 10 cats.
"2" is not a magic number.

Please keep some fingers crossed for me that I'll be speaking with a
reasonable board who wrote in the "without written approval" clause (it
was a later amendment to the original restriction) just so they could
accomodate folk like us without undue grief. I will NOT dispose of any
animal in favour of a material posession, but I'd also be crushed to
lose my perfect first home - and possibly my LARGE deposit - over this.

Johanna "not without my cats, dammit!" B.

"Jessamy" wrote in message
...
you can always site that you only signed the agreement after you asked and
were told there were no restrictions - you signed the agreement under
false
pretences after all.

I agree with Jessamy on this. Yes, I know the ideal solution would be for
the board to be reasonable, but that doesn't always happen. And if it
doesn't, I'd put up a good fight for the deposit. After all, you did more
than most would have done to make sure the place met your requirements, and
they did not give you the correct information in a timely manner. It's going
to be a bit hard for them to get a court to make you forfeit the deposit.

--
Kathy A. (Woodland, CA)
Queen of Fabric Tramps
http://www.kayneyquilting.com ,
remove the obvious to reply

Yeah, I know. The issue with the deposit is, it goes to the seller,
and the seller is not the board. Condos are weird, in ways I am pretty
much prepared for, excepting that in this case I had wrong information.
But that's not the seller's fault, either. It's the original
builder's sales rep's fault, for not knowing what the by-laws were when
she was selling units. Bear in mind this was 5 yrs back when I first
looked - and couldn't afford to buy, at the time. Since I'm now buying
the unit resale from a nice gentleman who is the 3rd owner or so, he
too is not responsible for what the original builder promoted.

I'm holding out hope that I'm worried over nothing. I'm encouraged
that, while the *original* by-laws from 2000 simply said "no more than
two", there was a revision in 2004 to include "without the approval of
the board, no more than two...". This might mean that the board, which
really SHOULD be representing the community of owners, is acknowledging
that different households may care for more animals responsibly, but
that they just want to treat it such that there's a guideline for
responsibility. After all, that is the way the rental laws have gone
in Ontario in recent years - a landlord cannot arbitrarily forbid or
limit pets in a rental building, but they can address problems legally
based on either nuisance/threat/damage from the pet, or danger/neglect
TO the pet.

Unfortunately, Condo corporation rules can be more capricious, because
Ontario Law seems to assume that the condo board is making rulings with
the consensus or majority support of owners. That is as it SHOULD be,
but we all know that in practice, most owners are too apathetic to keep
tabs on what their board is doing which allows the few who want to, to
steamroll things to suit themselves.

Here's hoping. And if we get to go through with this, you can bet *I*
will be attending the meetings!!!

Johanna

FurrsomeThreesome wrote:

Please keep some fingers crossed for me that I'll be speaking with a
reasonable board who wrote in the "without written approval" clause (it
was a later amendment to the original restriction) just so they could
accomodate folk like us without undue grief. I will NOT dispose of any
animal in favour of a material posession, but I'd also be crushed to
lose my perfect first home - and possibly my LARGE deposit - over this.

Oh dear! I'll be hoping for you! I completely understand, and I know how
hard it can be to get adequate housing with pets. Certainly when we
first moved in here, we discussed rent-to-own with the then owner, and
no mention of pets was made, Then she did a surprise inspection, and
totally freaked out about the number of cats (5 at that time) and Dog
running around. She tried to get us booted, briefly, as a result. "If I
had known you had pets, I would never have consented." If I had known it
was an issue, I'd never have made an offer on the place. Now that *we*
own it, it's not an issue any more.

-georg

I'm a bit more calm as of a couple hours ago. Our agent called, having
spoken to the Condo Board president, whom she said sounds like a nice
young man, has been on the board for 2 years, and was surprised anyone
would bother asking for an approval. He asked that I email him a note,
so he has something to go poll the rest of the board with, but it
didn't sound like HE thought there was an issue. Oh, good.

Also found out there is at least one other unit already inhabited by 3
cats, "approved" or not. As my agent said, we don't want to pull that
card out of a back pocket unless we have to, but its something. It may
very well be the operating, as opposed to written, policy is to look
the other way unless there's a problem.

Still, I want it in writing,

Johanna

yes of course you do! stick to your guns and you will be ok - I'm glad the
preliminary signs are good

--
Jessamy
In The Netherlands
Take out: so much quilting to reply.
Time to accept, time to grow, time to take things slow
www.geocities.com/jess_ayad
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jes...pson/my_photos
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm a bit more calm as of a couple hours ago. Our agent called, having
spoken to the Condo Board president, whom she said sounds like a nice
young man, has been on the board for 2 years, and was surprised anyone
would bother asking for an approval. He asked that I email him a note,
so he has something to go poll the rest of the board with, but it
didn't sound like HE thought there was an issue. Oh, good.

Also found out there is at least one other unit already inhabited by 3
cats, "approved" or not. As my agent said, we don't want to pull that
card out of a back pocket unless we have to, but its something. It may
very well be the operating, as opposed to written, policy is to look
the other way unless there's a problem.

Still, I want it in writing,

Johanna

Are your kitties inside only? Whatever you do get in writing what you
need. Sounds like you are on the ball and taking care just fine though.

We actually walked out after signing half of the closing papers on this
house. There was a problem with the appraisal papers that had been held
back until then. We picked up all the papers we had signed and headed
out. They were able to get the error fixed and we closed a week or so
later. It worked out but what a hassle. If you aren't taking care of
yourself there might not be anyone too.

Got my fingers crossed that things will work out for you.
TAria


FurrsomeThreesome wrote:
I'm a bit more calm as of a couple hours ago. Our agent called, having
spoken to the Condo Board president, whom she said sounds like a nice
young man, has been on the board for 2 years, and was surprised anyone
would bother asking for an approval. He asked that I email him a note,
so he has something to go poll the rest of the board with, but it
didn't sound like HE thought there was an issue. Oh, good.

Also found out there is at least one other unit already inhabited by 3
cats, "approved" or not. As my agent said, we don't want to pull that
card out of a back pocket unless we have to, but its something. It may
very well be the operating, as opposed to written, policy is to look
the other way unless there's a problem.

Still, I want it in writing,

Johanna

Don't you just know they would get their knickers all in a knot over our
pets? 8,500 last count and who's counting? Some of our gators just may
have evacuated. Don't go out after dark until you've run the flashlight
around checking for gleaming red eyes. They're just above the big-toothed
smiles. Polly