Embroidery and Why Men Are Happier Than Women!

Why not just give the region and then give any influences?

To use your example:

Mountmellick, from Mountmellick, Ireland. Uses (these) unique stitches with
fiber X on ground Y.
Chikan embroidery, from India, strong influenced by the French tradition of
xxxxxxx and has these unique stitches.

Obliviously, you can make this much smoother to read - I have a tremendous
headache starting, I think I have the start of a sinus infection (my parents
adopted a cat and my sister smokes and guess where I spent Xmas Day).

Cheryl
Figuring any leisure will be spent knitting



On 12/27/03 8:12 AM, in article ,
"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote:

You are right. But it arose in Mountmellick, Ireland and had a peculiar
style, with its own peculiar stitches found nowhere else. It was
specific types of thread on specific grounds. No one else did it. It
also had specific fringe (usually) that was knitted. It is unique to
this area (region).

Just because something is made for income doesn't mean it isn't unique.
Just because somebody from another country started the "process"
doesn't mean it isn't unique to the region where it was practised.

There is hardly a stitch known to man that wasn't done somewhere else in
the world. But often, certain regions (or groups of people) do it in
their own unique "fashion".

I've looked through a lot of clothing and embroidery books (certainly
not all ever printed), and the type of wool on wool embroidery practised
in Australia is not anything like that practised elsewhere in the world.
There are unique stitches and unique ways of combining stitches.
None of the stitches are "new". In New Mexico, from Spanish influence,
Colcha embroidery "became". But it's simply Bakhara couching only 2
threads, and wool, and unique ways of using color that make it distinct.

Chikan embroidery is from India, and - although there are a few unique
stitches employed that began there (such as the phunda knot) - basically
it's a knock-off of fine French embroideries. And the embroideries of
Ayreshire (Scotland) are simply a "style" that evolved from the French.
Often, the only way to tell the difference is in the construction
process of the finished goods. And, of course, the embroideries from
India - while trying to copy European patterns - really are distinct
because of their own art/cultural influence. The unique way the Scots
embroidered and designed, once you study it, are unique in most cases.
Sometimes the French influence creeps in.

Just like the space shuttle of Russia is different from the space
shuttle of the U.S. Same thing - different "style" based on their
cultural influence.

I would think that, in many parts of the world, embroidery was often
practised to make a living. :-)

To me, what separates embroideries is either stitches unique to a given
style, or color unique (like the Hopi's used different colors and
designs, but many American Indians made blankets - but all distinct).

So, these styles and peculiar stitches developed in certain "regions" -
whether or not they originated there, and whether or not they did it to
keep from starving or to embellish wedding dresses (weaving of Lithuania
and the unique construction techniques which are crocheted - including
the buttons).

Anyway, as I re-read what you wrote and I just typed - perhaps we are
talking about something different. Are you referring to something else
and I missed your point?

Dianne

FKBABB wrote:
Ahhhh, but Annie, if the "style" (or genre/specific technique) arose
from this "region" - even if they practise other similar stitches there
and elsewhere, isn't that still "regional", because it came from there
originally. Like Mountmellick. It arose from a specific area - so
that's "regional", even though the Brits took it from there and did
their own "versions". BRBR

As I understand it, post-1800 Mountmellick did not arise in an "area" or a
"region" but in the mind of a single, socially-conscious Englishwoman who
sought to alleviate poverty in a small corner of rural Ireland by helping
destitute women use a pre-existing skill (the ability to use a needle) to
manufacture something that could be sold for desperately-needed income to the
middle-class English market. She thought that British strivers who couldn't
afford the highly-fashionable, but much more expensive, far more delicate,
Scottish white work, would buy the coarser work *she* designed (and taught
her
Irish workers to stitch) using inexpensive materials, sort of like today when
people (myself included) will shop in Target for Pottery Barn knock-offs.
And,
she was right. The pieces sold very well until machine-made whitework was
developed toward the end of the century, knocking the bottom out of the
market
for hand-made white work of all types. So, to me, Montmellick is a
manufactured style, designed specifically with market considerations in mind.
It is an "ethnic" embroidery only in the sense that those who initially
stitched the pieces were of Irish ethnicity. And, for those poor workers, it
was probably more of a radical than a traditional form of needlework, as they
hitherto had probably had neither the money nor the materials to do much
stitching besides darning.

I hope the foregoing doesn't sound like a rant. I'm finding this an
interesting discussion.

Annie

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
The trend in Museology nowadays is to exchange the term , "primitive"
into "Tribal" , or "Ethnic" Excactly because they are Not synonyms ,
Interesting. I've always felt the same about the word "ethnic".
"Peasant"
and "primitive" used as descriptives always strike me as condescending -
sort of Lady-of-the Manor-ish.
Nore is Ethnic Synonym to Peasant or Primitive, which are also not
synonyms in them selves.

I didn't say, or intend to imply, that ethnic was synonymous with either
peasant or primitive.

There is Nothing condescending about the word Ethnic , unless you want
or mean to use it as such.

I am also aware that "ethnic", in fact, applies to each and every one of us.
However, in the way the word is currently used in North America, it refers
exclusively to things that are non-European in origin and that's an
incorrect usage, IMO. As someone already said, it's too Anglo-centric.

emerald

So it it is Non-European it would include American , Asian , African
ans Australian things ,,,,
mirjam
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:27:46 GMT, "emerald"
wrote:


"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
The trend in Museology nowadays is to exchange the term , "primitive"
into "Tribal" , or "Ethnic" Excactly because they are Not synonyms ,
Interesting. I've always felt the same about the word "ethnic".
"Peasant"
and "primitive" used as descriptives always strike me as condescending -
sort of Lady-of-the Manor-ish.
Nore is Ethnic Synonym to Peasant or Primitive, which are also not
synonyms in them selves.

I didn't say, or intend to imply, that ethnic was synonymous with either
peasant or primitive.

There is Nothing condescending about the word Ethnic , unless you want
or mean to use it as such.

I am also aware that "ethnic", in fact, applies to each and every one of us.
However, in the way the word is currently used in North America, it refers
exclusively to things that are non-European in origin and that's an
incorrect usage, IMO. As someone already said, it's too Anglo-centric.

emerald

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:29:45 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:

Interesting, I asked my husband at dinner, and he felt "ethnic" was more
race-oriented, or "brown" oriented in its nuance. He liked "regional"
because it doesn't have such negative connotations.
But there can be different ethnicities in a region. Take "Eastern
Europe" as just one example. By definition, it includes Russians,
Poles, Czechs, Slovakians, Ukrainians, Belorussians.... Mexicans
don't include themselves in the concept "Central American."
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.

Darla wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:29:45 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote:

Interesting, I asked my husband at dinner, and he felt "ethnic" was more
race-oriented, or "brown" oriented in its nuance. He liked "regional"
because it doesn't have such negative connotations.

But there can be different ethnicities in a region. Take "Eastern
Europe" as just one example. By definition, it includes Russians,
Poles, Czechs, Slovakians, Ukrainians, Belorussians.... Mexicans
don't include themselves in the concept "Central American."

It's even more complex than that: Poles, Czechs, and Slovaks very much
object to being called Eastern European and prefer the term Central
Europe. (By definitions preceding the Cold War, Eastern Europe refers
to those countries using Cyrillic rather than the Latin alphabet.)

However, one could break the regions down smaller: Polish, Bohemian,
Ruthenian, Carpathian, Kashubian, Eastern Siberia, South Siberia...
That would perhaps be more useful, since the embroidery typical of, for
example, Polish Galicia, is different than that of the northern area
known as Warmia.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Mexicans
don't include themselves in the concept "Central American."

Which isn't surprising, seeing how Mexico is part of North America. : )

Katrina L.

Cheryl Isaak wrote:
Why not just give the region and then give any influences?

Because I need a blanket term for all these types. Like a title page. :-)
Dianne

Dr. Brat wrote:
However, one could break the regions down smaller: Polish, Bohemian,
Ruthenian, Carpathian, Kashubian, Eastern Siberia, South Siberia... That
would perhaps be more useful, since the embroidery typical of, for
example, Polish Galicia, is different than that of the northern area
known as Warmia.

I understand that I can point out (or to) a typical embroidery by
saying: Carpathian embroidery (if indeed they have a distinct style).

But what I need is a catch-all phrase as a "header", and THEN list the
styles I'm looking for in more exact terms, such as "colcha,
Mountmellick, Casalguidi, Schwalm et al."

I know it's hard. grin That's why I'm asking to hopefully get some
insight from those that know more than I.

If I wrote a book with an all-encompassing title, and each chapter
listed a specific embroidery style and explained it and pictured it,
such as Chapter I: Carpathian; Chapter II: Polish Galicia

What can I call the book? (No, I can't call it Embroideries of the
World). There's raised embroidery, crewel embroidery, wool-on-wool
embroidery, chenille embroidery, cross stitch embroidery, Brazilian
embroidery, and then there's these *regional* types like Schwalm and
Casalguidi and Ayreshire and Mountmellick and Chikan et al.

I'm uncomfortable with the use of the word Ethnic, so was hoping to come
up with a better terminology. Maybe there isn't one. smile

Dianne

Dianne Lewandowski wrote:

If I wrote a book with an all-encompassing title, and each chapter
listed a specific embroidery style and explained it and pictured it,
such as Chapter I: Carpathian; Chapter II: Polish Galicia

What can I call the book? (No, I can't call it Embroideries of the
World). There's raised embroidery, crewel embroidery, wool-on-wool
embroidery, chenille embroidery, cross stitch embroidery, Brazilian
embroidery, and then there's these *regional* types like Schwalm and
Casalguidi and Ayreshire and Mountmellick and Chikan et al.

I'm uncomfortable with the use of the word Ethnic, so was hoping to come
up with a better terminology. Maybe there isn't one. smile

I think regional works fine, but that's just me.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Diverse Embroideries".
Showing geographic and historic influences.

Joyce in RSA.

"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message
...
Cheryl Isaak wrote:
Why not just give the region and then give any influences?

Because I need a blanket term for all these types. Like a title page. :-)
Dianne