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Jewelry in India / Gems in India



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 30th 09, 08:23 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Ray Gabriel[_2_]
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Posts: 3
Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

Hi!

I hope that I can give you more background on this subject. By
way of background, I have been involved in importing gems
and researching jewelry in Asia since 1975. My wife wrote
the book "Jewelry of Nepal" (1999 - Weatherhill) and is a
German, professionally trained in the German apprenticeship
system as a professional goldsmith. She has had her own
design studio since 1975 until she retired last year.

Since banks in India were nonexistent until very resently, or
untrusted
(with good reason, as we've seen here in the last year), gold and
silver high karat jewelry is first a form of family wealth savings,
used as general savings and in marriage dowers, land purchase - in
many
transactions.

When a family has money, they go to a goldsmith and purchase
or have made a realtively simple piece of jewelry. There
is very little premium for the actual making/designing and designs
don't generally change much. Buyers are more interested in getting
the most gold or silver for the price. High karat gold is to be
preferred, then silver. India is about the biggest user of gold
as a medium of exchange in the world.

When a family NEEDS money, they go back to the goldsmith
and sell the jewelry for currency.

India is also a large producer of gems, both cut and rough.
While gems are used in Indian jewelry, it is not as important
as it is in the West and the metal is usually more important
than the stone(s). Colored stones are often cut in Jaipur, my
favorite city in India. Diamonds are now cut largely in Surat
and Mumbai.

Within the last 10 years, India has captured the majority of
diamond cutting in the world with almost 92% of cutting.
Rough comes largly from southern Africa, Russia and
(unfortunately) from the conflict regions in Central Africa.
Australia is also a fair size producers of rough. Diamond
rough trading is largely controlled by the Central Selling
Organization which grew from DeBeers. Diamond pricing
is much more controlled than other colored stones.

Hope this helps!

Ray Gabriel - www.raygabriel.com

Ads
  #2  
Old July 30th 09, 04:18 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
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Posts: 77
Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

Ray Gabriel wrote:

Within the last 10 years, India has captured the majority of
diamond cutting in the world with almost 92% of cutting.


Perhaps not now...

Early this year in Mumbai there were about 100,000 diamond cutters
thrown out of work and charities were operating free soup kitchens for them.

The vast bulk of the jewellery manufacturing industry serving export
markets shut down and people went back to their villages to await better
times.

--
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls, no dialogue, just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly
  #3  
Old August 8th 09, 06:18 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Ganesh
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Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

On Jul 30, 8:18pm, William Black wrote:
The vast bulk of the jewellery manufacturing industry serving export
markets shut down and people went back to their villages to await better
times.


These are temporary phases, things are improving now and companies
regaining. India has been a international market place for diamond
jewelry for the last 3000+ years. All the big Diamonds those you can
think about are from India.

  #4  
Old August 8th 09, 06:23 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
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Posts: 115
Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:18:28 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ganesh
wrote:

All the big Diamonds those you can
think about are from India.


Well, no.

Make that "many", and you're right. Many of the important historical diamonds
did indeed come from India, including some of the most famous, such as the large
blue diamond from which the Hope diamond was later cut.

However, South African mines also produced a number of famous very large
diamonds, including record holders. Consider the Cullinan diamond, the star of
Africa, and others. Those record holders in the British Crown Jewels, most of
them at any rate, are South African. But of course, the South African diamond
mines don't have the millenia old history and lore of the Indian sources.

Peter
  #5  
Old August 9th 09, 07:25 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
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Posts: 77
Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

Ganesh wrote:
On Jul 30, 8:18pm, William Black wrote:
The vast bulk of the jewellery manufacturing industry serving export
markets shut down and people went back to their villages to await better
times.


These are temporary phases, things are improving now and companies
regaining.


Possibly.

However the main diamond cutting centre has moved twice since I was
born, from Amsterdam to Tel Aviv and from Tel Aviv to Bombay.

It could move again...


--
William Black

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing.
If you can fake that, you've got it made.

  #6  
Old August 10th 09, 09:48 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
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Posts: 115
Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:04:51 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ganesh
wrote:


leaving the Cullinan which other diamonds famous diamonds do you know.
the uniqueness about Indian Diamond has been its quality that's
unmatched yet.


Ganesh, I'm going to guess, based just on your name, which sounds Indian, that
you may have a certain bias here in favor if Indian diamonds. That is also
suggested by the tone of your post, which seems to suggest that Indian diamonds
are somehow better than the rest.

That's just not true. The big thing that Indian diamonds DO have, is a long and
storied history, with India being a source for diamonds going back as long as
3000 years, at least. That's a major factor, of course, since history and lore
are a big part of why people both enjoy, and desire things of value. Certainly,
India has the history and lore when it comes to diamonds, and today of course,
they also are a major part of the diamond industry in terms of cutting. But
lets be realistic. Today, the actual mining of diamonds in India is all but
gone, with India accounting for somewhat less than 1 percent of world annual
mining production, and the stones found are no different in quality from those
found in other parts of the world. Mines in Africa, South America, Austrialia,
Russia, and Canada all produce a range of qualities going from commercial or
industrial all the way up to rare finest gem quality. There are no particular
gemological differences in Indian sourced stones that make them somehow better,
nor to Indian mine produce on average a better quality in gemological terms.
They Do have that history behind them, but that's the main advantage, if any.
The indian diamond cutting industry also matches this. India may be the largest
diamond cutting center at the moment, but it's a strictly commercial thing.
Diamonds cut in India range from tiny to large, and from well cut to junk. Most
of the finest cut stones, though, the ones taking high levels of skill and time
to produce, are not cut in India. The reason is not a lack of skill on the part
of Indian cutters, but simple economics. Those large and fine stones needing
special care are a smaller part of the market, and factories simply can make
more money cutting the stones for which there is the biggest market.

As to Historical gems.

Well, for Indian diamonds with a famous history, the only two I happen to
remember off hand are the Kohinoor, and the French Blue, stolen during the
French Revolution and later recut to what is now the Hope. I know there are
many more, but I'm not especially aware, off the top of my head, of their names.

Likewise, I can't say I can off hand remember lots of non-Indian diamonds,
though again, there are many. But I do recall a few: the Cullinan 1 and 2
diamonds (two of the largest cut diamonds in existance today, and several more
were cut from that rough stone), The Star of Sierra Leone, (the largest
alluvial diamond ever found) The Tiffany, Jonker, Taylor-Burton, and the Uncle
Sam (40 carats rough, One of the largest diamonds found to date in the Crater of
Arkansas Mine in the United States. I know there are many more, but racking my
poor brain doesn't come up with more names.

So I cheated a bit. Looked in my old Diamonds Course book from GIA (a 1979
copy, so latest info isn't there). It happens to have a nice list of some of
the famous diamonds over 50 carats. That list, which I'm not going to totally
retype as it's a whole page long, includes 16 famous stones from India, all but
one discovered before 1835. And it includes 25 from South Africa, One from
Lesotho, Two from Seirra Leone, 4 from Brazil, and even one from Indonesia. Some
of these are older, from as early as the 1700s, but most of these were found
after about 1900 and up to modern times. No doubt there are plenty of others
that could be included. on a longer list, but the point is, there are many
important, large, and famous diamonds both from India and even more in modern
times from sources outside of India.


All the major monarch in the world you know take pride to possess an
Indian Gem.


Well, I imagine they would be equally proud to own any important or fine gem, no
matter where it comes from. Fine historical Indian sourced diamonds are indeed
worthy of respect. But so are any other fine quality gems. As I stated before,
those gems with a long history behind them do enjoy the unique status that
brings. But that, in different forms, can equally apply to gems found more
recently in other locations if the stone itself is suffieciently high quality or
of significant size.


Alexander, Queen elizabeth, Akbar you name. Their life is incomplete
if they have not possessed an India diamond.


Um. Ganesh, I suspect that if you were to ask any of these people whether the
ownership of an Indian diamond, or for that matter, any diamond were needed to
make their life complete, I suspect you'd find that there are more important
things in life. People enjoy things of rarity and value and beauty. Fine
historical Indian diamonds can fit that catagory.

But frankly, there aren't that many around for people to acquire. Folks wishing
to buy a fine large diamond these days, if they were to insist on a diamond
found in India, would have a harder time simply finding one, because not much
mining is being done anymore (If this has significantly changed in recent
years, I'd love to know about it. Please cite sources...). And when they do
find one, it's price will be based on it's gemological quality, the quality of
it's cutting, and size, and other such factors, the same as diamonds from other
sources.

It might be that in India itself, there might be some premium on an Indian
sourced diamond due to national pride, but I've not observed any particular
demand in other parts of the world. In fact, the main demand for particular
sources are for stones that buyers can be assured are not involved in conflicts,
or in exploitation of miners, children, or ecological issues.. There is some
increased demand as such for both Australian diamonds (though mostly, there it's
demand for the pink colors that mine is famous for), and especially for Canadian
sourced stones. There is an industry assumption that unless otherwise stated,
commercial quality diamonds likely were cut in India, but that's not some
special factor demanding additional market respect, since the cutting quality is
no better than that done elsewhere.

It is certainly true that India plays a major part in the diamond and jewelry
industry today, and the world wide markets in both. But please, don't let that
fact blind you to the fact that the rest of the world is also rather involved as
well...

:-)

Peter
  #7  
Old August 10th 09, 04:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Ganesh
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Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India


On Aug 10, 1:48*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
It is certainly true that India plays a major part in the diamond and jewelry
industry today, and the world wide markets in both. *But please, don't let that
fact blind you to the fact that the rest of the world is also rather involved as
well... *


I never said the rest of the world is not involved. But, just that
diamonds here are different and there are lot of incidents (not just
stories) surrounding them. Also, I heard that diamond from other mines
are different from the Indian ones.
  #8  
Old August 10th 09, 04:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Ganesh
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Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India


On Aug 8, 10:23*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
However, South African mines also produced a number of famous very large
diamonds, including record holders. *Consider the Cullinan diamond, the star of
Africa, and others. *Those record holders in the British Crown Jewels, *most of
them at any rate, are South African. * But of course, the South African diamond
mines don't have the millenia old history and lore of the Indian sources.


But Koh-i-noor on records still is still the biggest finished diamond.
As per http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A730801 the stone originally
weighed 793 carats.
  #9  
Old August 10th 09, 04:53 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Ganesh
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Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

On Aug 10, 1:48*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:04:51 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ganesh

wrote:

leaving the Cullinan which other diamonds famous diamonds do you know.
the uniqueness about Indian Diamond has been its quality that's
unmatched yet.


Ganesh, *I'm going to guess, based just on your name, which sounds Indian, that
you may have a certain bias here in favor if Indian diamonds. *That is also
suggested by the tone of your post, which seems to suggest that Indian diamonds
are somehow better than the rest.

That's just not true. *The big thing that Indian diamonds DO have, is a long and
storied history, with India being a source for diamonds going back as long as
3000 years, at least.

[[big snip]]
It is certainly true that India plays a major part in the diamond and jewelry
industry today, and the world wide markets in both. *But please, don't let that
fact blind you to the fact that the rest of the world is also rather involved as
well... *

:-)

Peter


A huge list of Indian Diamonds and their specialty is that they are
owned only my monarchs

http://www.farlang.com/gemstones/bah...tones/page_096
  #10  
Old August 10th 09, 04:59 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
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Posts: 115
Default Jewelry in India / Gems in India

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:53:59 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ganesh
wrote:

On Aug 10, 1:48*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:04:51 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ganesh

wrote:

leaving the Cullinan which other diamonds famous diamonds do you know.
the uniqueness about Indian Diamond has been its quality that's
unmatched yet.

Ganesh, *I'm going to guess, based just on your name, which sounds Indian, that
you may have a certain bias here in favor if Indian diamonds. *That is also
suggested by the tone of your post, which seems to suggest that Indian diamonds
are somehow better than the rest.

That's just not true. *The big thing that Indian diamonds DO have, is a long and
storied history, with India being a source for diamonds going back as long as
3000 years, at least.

[[big snip]]
It is certainly true that India plays a major part in the diamond and jewelry
industry today, and the world wide markets in both. *But please, don't let that
fact blind you to the fact that the rest of the world is also rather involved as
well... *

:-)

Peter


A huge list of Indian Diamonds and their specialty is that they are
owned only my monarchs

http://www.farlang.com/gemstones/bah...tones/page_096


Ganesh,

A nice reference. But if you read the whole thing, you'll find your list also
includes many famous diamonds that are NOT from India.

As to being owned by Monarchs, for the most part, before the mid 1800s, Royalty
or at least the nobility, were the only ones with the financial means to buy
such gems. Frankly, before then, general ownership of diamonds by the public
wasn't so common in any case, other than as accent stones, simply because before
the discoveries in South Africa, there simply weren't a lot of diamonds on the
market at all. So it's not surprising that Most of the famous Indian diamonds
ended up in the hands of Royalty or the nobility. That's just logic and
economics and history, not anything somehow unique to the nature of Indian
stones. You can say much the same thing about very rare and costly gems or
other items in general. Look for the owners of historically important or famous
large natural pearls, or the largest and finest of Emeralds, Rubies, or other
stones, and you'll find that again, before the Industrial revolution at least,
most such gems and rare items were in the hands of Royalty or nobility.

Peter
 




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