A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Jewelry
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 15th 09, 04:46 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
sunrainor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

Good morning,

after reading the very useful reply about grinding options, I'm asking
for help deciding how to tackle the rocks I've been picking up around
my yard and neighbourhood, here in the north of St. Lucia, West
Indies.

They are, I believe, mostly red-yellow jasper, chalcedony or milky
quartz. They easily scratch glass. I have some pics here (
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2278716...7619773039586/ ) if
that helps, the jaspers shown aren't the best ones I have, but my main
collection got 'stored' by the yard guy who used them to prop up some
concrete slabs. I figure they're safe there for now. I know they're
not 'valuable' in terms of rarity, but they're worth making into
jewellery because they use local materials, which in these islands is
not something you find often! Most as small pieces 1/2-4", some are
big rocks.

My budget is very limited, and not much is readily available here so I
have to import from the US mostly. I want to be able to cut smallish
pieces and polish them - I'd prefer not to get the overall rounding
that rotary tumblers give (I haven't used one, that's what I read). I
think I'd like to cut pieces, grind off edges and surface bumps and
polish surfaces - so I don't mind a bit of topography being left in my
pieces, I'd like to bring out the beauty of the rocks but I don't need
smooth oval cabs.

I have a dremel, I've ordered some diamond coated cutting wheels which
I hope will cut small pieces but that's all I have right now. I can
get the hardware store tile cutters, I can get diamond wheels for them
locally, I can also get the grinders you talked about in the last
post. No polishers available locally.

Any guidance as to tools, attachments, etc that I could at least start
with while I save up for better equipment? And what would you
recommend for better equipment for me to aspire to owning? Also,
recommendations on good starting books - we don't have gems here and I
don't expect really to use gems other than maybe ones I buy ready for
use. So I'm really looking for guidance on getting my rocks into shape

many thanks

Finola
Ads
  #2  
Old June 16th 09, 04:54 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
whaleystudios
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Jun 15, 8:46=A0am, sunrainor wrote:
Good morning,

after reading the very useful reply about grinding options, I'm asking
for help deciding how to tackle the rocks I've been picking up around
my yard and neighbourhood, here in the north of St. Lucia, West
Indies.

They are, I believe, mostly red-yellow jasper, chalcedony or milky
quartz. They easily scratch glass. I have some pics here (http://www.flic=

kr.com/photos/22787161@N07/sets/72157619773039586/) if
that helps, the jaspers shown aren't the best ones I have, but my main
collection got 'stored' by the yard guy who used them to prop up some
concrete slabs. I figure they're safe there for now. I know they're
not 'valuable' in terms of rarity, but they're worth making into
jewellery because they use local materials, which in these islands is
not something you find often! Most as small pieces 1/2-4", some are
big rocks.

My budget is very limited, and not much is readily available here so I
have to import from the US mostly. I want to be able to cut smallish
pieces and polish them - I'd prefer not to get the overall rounding
that rotary tumblers give (I haven't used one, that's what I read). I
think I'd like to cut pieces, grind off edges and surface bumps and
polish surfaces - so I don't mind a bit of topography being left in my
pieces, I'd like to bring out the beauty of the rocks but I don't need
smooth oval cabs.

I have a dremel, I've ordered some diamond coated cutting wheels which
I hope will cut small pieces but that's all I have right now. I can
get the hardware store tile cutters, I can get diamond wheels for them
locally, I can also get the grinders you talked about in the last
post. No polishers available locally.

Any guidance as to tools, attachments, etc that I could at least start
with while I save up for better equipment? And what would you
recommend for better equipment for me to aspire to owning? Also,
recommendations on good starting books - we don't have gems here and I
don't expect really to use gems other than maybe ones I buy ready for
use. So I'm really looking for guidance on getting my rocks into shape

many thanks

Finola


Finola,
Initially, you may begin by attaching several grades of sandpaper,
coarse to fine, onto a table, and simply rub your stones across it,
grinding edges as well as flattening some of the surface. Continue to
the finer grades until you reach approximately the size you are aiming
for. Yes, it can take time and patience, but replaces costly wheels
and arbors.
When you have finished with the sandpaper, then go to your Dremel, and
use grinding wheels as needed, and then go to polishing wheels.
Hardware and do it yourself stores may have assortments of these
wheels according to task, grinding, polishing. If not then you are
looking for Mizzy types to rubber wheels.
The functions are first to grind away maximum, then finer and finer to
reduce the scratches from grinding, and then finally polishing with a
compound.
Terrie Masters
  #3  
Old June 16th 09, 05:25 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz


Finola,

I'd add a couple notes to Theresa's advice. When she suggests sandpaper, I'd
note that you should be using a type that uses aluminum oxide, or silicon
carbide, as the abrasive. Not garnet, etc. Use abrasive paper intended for
auto body work or work on metal, rather than wood. The silicon carbide paper
will work better, but emery or aluminum oxide is OK. Also, if you get "wet/dry"
paper, than you can add a bit of water to the paper. That keeps the paper from
loading up, and can speed cutting. In most lapidary work, the sanding and
grinding (and often polishing) is done wet, in part to avoid build up of heat
when using motorized wheels. With hand sanding, that's less an issue, but it
still can improve the action a bit. For polishing, most of the polishing agents
used for metal won't work well. You need tin oxide, cerium oxide, or another of
the polishinjg agents used for stone. These are often effective when used on a
piece of leather or canvas when polishing by hand, and need to be used wet. Not
very wet. Just a sort of damp paste on the surface of the leather or cloth. You
can also use diamond compounds, sold for lapidary use, and these are used as is
(no water) or with a little "extender fluid" sold for that purpose. These same
compounds are also sold in coarser grits, and can be used for initial sanding
and smoothing. A good type of beginner polishing machine uses wood "spools",
which are wheels perhaps three inches in diameter or so, often with a concave
curve to the front, set up for fairly low rpm rotation. Usually the spools are
made from a longer piece of maple, lathe turned so several working surfaces are
presented next to each other, each used with successively finer grits. If you
can find a picture of such a machine, you can figure out ways to rig up
something like it for yourself, if you can find someone with a lathe who cam
make the hardwood spools for you. These machines differ from most lapidary
equipment in that they are used without water, which greatly simplfies the whole
setup. I know one hobbyist who mounts a set of such spools on an arbor which he
puts in a variable speed electric drill which he built a stand for. The whole
setup cost him next to nothing, aside from buying the diamond compounds, since
he knew someone with a lathe to turn the spools for him. He gets a nice polish
on this setup.

Note that this is for minor sanding and then polishing. The major shaping of
the rock is still done on grinding wheels, but again, this fellow does this with
his trusty electric drill and a drill mounted gringing wheel. For this, he has
the lower edge of the wheel running against a damp sponge to keep things cool,
and a low speed helps too. I worry a bit about using water in any form near the
electric drill, but he's careful not to get the drill (which is also well
insulated) wet in the process...

The whole setup is very simple, and slow, and a bit crude. But for the very
occasional times he wishes to polish a rock, it works, so he doesn't need to
spend more on "real" equipment.

And then there's your dremel type tool...

One of the keys to all this is that in general, slower speeds work well, even if
more slowly. High speed tools tend to "burn" the stone, with heat build up
causing fracturing etc. This may be a problem with your dremel and it's
attachments. Use it's lower speeds for best results. You can get small diamond
abrasive grinding points that will work well for shaping stone, especially with
water or oil as a coolant. The little electroplated types (very cheap, often
made in china) work well,but don't last long. Better are the more costly
sintered types where the diamond is not just a thin surface layer. These points
in your dremel can be used to shape and carve the stones. Other conventional
abrasives, if of aluminum oxide or silicon carbide, will also work for shaping
and sanding your stones. As I mentioned above, though, most of what works for
actually polishng metal won't work well on stone. You need the types of oxide
polish that do work on stone, including cerium oxide, aluminum oxide, tin oxide,
or the various diamond compounds.

If you intend to do a fair amount of this type of work, eventually you'll want
an actual lapidary machine. Simplest are the small "all in one" combination
units. Usually these are set up to allow a small lapidary saw blade on one side
of the motor or grinding arbor, so you can cut slices, or cut rocks in half, or
trim bits to the size you wish without having to just grind everything else
away. Then the other side of the machine can be used to mount various types of
grinding wheels, sanding drums, polishing discs, etc. The main thing that sets
these small units apart from a normal hardware store grinder is that they are
set up to use a water lubricant for both sawing and grinding, etc. And the
speeds they are set up to run are suited to lapidary work rather than the
usually faster speeds of normal grinding motors.

In searching through various catalogs and machine types, you will see many
expensive and fancy setups. These are all well and good when your budget
allows, but even the simplest, cheapest little combination unit will allow you
to do the job if you wish. Occasionally one sees such things on ebay too.
Hardware store tile cutters, if of the type that uses a wet rotating diamond saw
blade to cut the tile, will work on your jaspers too. That's more power than
you usually need for small scale lapidary work though, and unless you can find a
cheap used unit, probably more costly than a simple lapidary trim saw...

Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe
  #4  
Old June 21st 09, 07:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
sunrainor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Jun 17, 12:25*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
*Finola,
(snip)
If you intend to do a fair amount of this type of work, eventually you'll want
an actual lapidary machine. *Simplest are the small "all in one" combination
units.

(snip)



Thanks Peter and Terrie - very useful and do-able information. I am
back in Barbados again and my rocks are in St. Lucia but I brought
across a mid sized one to try out your suggestions with.

I did a bit of looking and found some combo machines - do you allow
posting links to stores? If so, could you guys take a look see and let
me know if you have any opinion/experience with them? If not, here's
the description:

"The SwapTop Trim Saw is the all purpose, full feature trim saw for
all your stone, tile, ceramic, and hobby projects. It will handle
large slabs up to 1 inch thick, yet is precise enough for small piece
work. Imagine cutting stone, marble, mosaic, tile and ceramic on the
same saw that can also cut wood, wood composites, plastics, soft
metals, and more with optional blades.

Weighs less than 10 lbs.

Includes: Motor unit, base, table housing with metal table insert, 6½"
Diamond Coated Blade, blade guard, blade arbor, fence, water
reservoir, and instruction guide.

Size: 12" wide x 10" deep x 6.75" high
Motor Type: Permanent Magnet DC
Motor Torque: 48 oz-in (.339 N-m)
Motor RPM: 2800
Horsepower: .086HP
Arbor OD: .500"
Fits 6" and 6½" blades"

the top can be swapped for one with a drum for grinding - a little
vertical cylinder that sits in the centre of the flat bed...

the first item is under $200 but the shipping would be about another
$200+ to me...

I am not sure if it will cut the quartz /jasper rocks?

any thoughts? worth thinking of for future or...

Will let you know when I have something to report on trying your hand
methods too

thanks

Finola
  #5  
Old June 22nd 09, 07:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:06:00 -0700, sunrainor
discovered a keyboard and, for our
edification and amusement, submitted

On Jun 17, 12:25*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
*Finola,
(snip)
If you intend to do a fair amount of this type of work, eventually you'll want
an actual lapidary machine. *Simplest are the small "all in one" combination
units.

(snip)



Thanks Peter and Terrie - very useful and do-able information. I am
back in Barbados again and my rocks are in St. Lucia but I brought
across a mid sized one to try out your suggestions with.

I did a bit of looking and found some combo machines - do you allow
posting links to stores? If so, could you guys take a look see and let
me know if you have any opinion/experience with them? If not, here's
the description:

"The SwapTop Trim Saw is the all purpose, full feature trim saw for
all your stone, tile, ceramic, and hobby projects.


The Swap Top is a fine starter machine and will handle the mentioned
matwerials quite well. Our local lapidary club uses several of these
units for our beginning lapidary classes; our students begin work with
Brazilian agate, since it is a nice hard material.

The manufacturer has used our cluib s a testing ground for these
units, and we have suggested many improvements which have been
incorporated into today's models. HTH.

Blessed be, for sure...
  #6  
Old June 23rd 09, 02:15 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:06:00 -0700, sunrainor
discovered a keyboard and, for our
edification and amusement, submitted

On Jun 17, 12:25*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
*Finola,
(snip)
If you intend to do a fair amount of this type of work, eventually you'll want
an actual lapidary machine. *Simplest are the small "all in one" combination
units.

(snip)



Thanks Peter and Terrie - very useful and do-able information. I am
back in Barbados again and my rocks are in St. Lucia but I brought
across a mid sized one to try out your suggestions with.

I did a bit of looking and found some combo machines - do you allow
posting links to stores? If so, could you guys take a look see and let
me know if you have any opinion/experience with them? If not, here's
the description:

"The SwapTop Trim Saw is the all purpose, full feature trim saw for
all your stone, tile, ceramic, and hobby projects.


The Swap Top is a fine starter machine and will handle the mentioned
matwerials quite well. Our local lapidary club uses several of these
units for our beginning lapidary classes; our students begin work with
Brazilian agate, since it is a nice hard material.

The manufacturer has used our cluib s a testing ground for these
units, and we have suggested many improvements which have been
incorporated into today's models. HTH.

Blessed be, for sure...
  #7  
Old June 23rd 09, 06:00 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
sunrainor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Jun 23, 9:15*pm, Jim wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:06:00 -0700, sunrainor
discovered a keyboard and, for our
edification and amusement, submitted



On Jun 17, 12:25*pm, Peter W. Rowe
wrote:
*Finola,
(snip)
If you intend to do a fair amount of this type of work, eventually you'll want
an actual lapidary machine. *Simplest are the small "all in one" combination
units.

(snip)


Thanks Peter and Terrie - very useful and do-able information. I am
back in Barbados again and my rocks are in St. Lucia but I brought
across a mid sized one to try out your suggestions with.


I did a bit of looking and found some combo machines - do you allow
posting links to stores? If so, could you guys take a look see and let
me know if you have any opinion/experience with them? If not, here's
the description:


"The SwapTop Trim Saw is the all purpose, full feature trim saw for
all your stone, tile, ceramic, and hobby projects.


The Swap Top is a fine starter machine and will handle the mentioned
matwerials quite well. Our local lapidary club uses several of these
units for our beginning lapidary classes; our students begin work with
Brazilian agate, since it is a nice hard material.

The manufacturer has used our cluib s a testing ground for these
units, and we have suggested many improvements which have been
incorporated into today's models. HTH.

Blessed be, for sure...


Thanks Jim, when I get to the point of purchasing one, may I ask you
for more specific advice on what parts to purchase?

And not sure how to do this, but I'd like to be able to tell people
what my stones actually are - from what I read, it's quite difficult
to actually pin down unless you are either an expert of can do some
tests...where does one look for help in this? We don't have 'rock
shops' in these parts - our regional university has a geology dept - I
will contact them for advice, but any other suggestions would be
welcome.

Finola




  #8  
Old June 24th 09, 03:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:00:20 -0700, sunrainor
discovered a keyboard and, for our
edification and amusement, submitted

As the machine is an all-in-one, you'd probably get the best deal by
purchsing the whole kit-and-kboodle. I've found in other cases that
add-ons tend to cost mopre when purchesed separately. I don't think
Don sells the units directly, but you'll get a fair deal from Kingsley
North. I don't know if their prices are the lowest, but they don't try
to cheat you, either. Google 'em and get a catalog!!

Jim

Thanks Jim, when I get to the point of purchasing one, may I ask you
for more specific advice on what parts to purchase?

And not sure how to do this, but I'd like to be able to tell people
what my stones actually are - from what I read, it's quite difficult
to actually pin down unless you are either an expert of can do some
tests...where does one look for help in this? We don't have 'rock
shops' in these parts - our regional university has a geology dept - I
will contact them for advice, but any other suggestions would be
welcome.

Finola




Blessed be, for sure...
  #9  
Old June 24th 09, 05:28 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:00:20 -0700, sunrainor
discovered a keyboard and, for our
edification and amusement, submitted

As the machine is an all-in-one, you'd probably get the best deal by
purchsing the whole kit-and-kboodle. I've found in other cases that
add-ons tend to cost mopre when purchesed separately. I don't think
Don sells the units directly, but you'll get a fair deal from Kingsley
North. I don't know if their prices are the lowest, but they don't try
to cheat you, either. Google 'em and get a catalog!!

Jim

Thanks Jim, when I get to the point of purchasing one, may I ask you
for more specific advice on what parts to purchase?

And not sure how to do this, but I'd like to be able to tell people
what my stones actually are - from what I read, it's quite difficult
to actually pin down unless you are either an expert of can do some
tests...where does one look for help in this? We don't have 'rock
shops' in these parts - our regional university has a geology dept - I
will contact them for advice, but any other suggestions would be
welcome.

Finola




Blessed be, for sure...
  #10  
Old June 24th 09, 05:46 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default choosing tools for working jasper/chalcedony/quartz

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:00:20 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry sunrainor
wrote:


And not sure how to do this, but I'd like to be able to tell people
what my stones actually are - from what I read, it's quite difficult
to actually pin down unless you are either an expert of can do some
tests...where does one look for help in this?


If your stones are, indeed (as the thread title suggests) Jaspers, chalcedonies,
or other quarts based materials, then you may indeed have a hard time pinning
things down to an exact name. The reason is simple. There may not actually be
an exact name for a specific variety. All these materials are essentially
minor variations on the same stuff. Quartz is a very common mineral. When you
get single solid crystals of the stuff, it can be various colors depending on
what impurities are in it, thus we get purple quartz called amethyst,
orange/yellows called citrine, etc. That's the simple part. After that, it
gets a bit trickier. Quartz also commonly forms not as single large crystals,
but as a mass of many microscopic crystals, often mixed in with other minor
componants which can change the appearance or give it color. When not much else
is in it, the color is a milky white, rather transluscent. If that's a mass
without structure, we just call it chalcedony, which is sort of a generic catch
all catagory rather than a specific type, since that also includes a number of
varieties that have various colors too. When that chalcedony forms as banded
layers, laid down from a water deposit, then we call it agate. Same material,
but the name refers to the banded structure. Agates too, come in a wide range
of appearances, some of which get named for that specific appearance or more
often, the most well known source. Some agates, like moss agate, may not have
such a strong banded structure, but they still get called agates. When the
impurities get to a large enough layer that the pigmentation they give means the
rock is no longer transluscent, but rather an opaque colored mass, then it often
gets called jasper. Again, it's the same basic type of material, differing in
the amount or color of the impurities. And then the jaspers get named often for
where they are found, or for prominant aspects of their appearance, or both.

The key here, is that agates, chalcedonies, and jaspers are all varieties of the
same mineral forming in slightly different ways with differing appearances and
structures. So the names given are not organized by a strict mineralogical
system. If you're in an area which is not well known for it's lapidary
materials, then while you may find any sort of nice variety of materials these
may not exactly fit into one or another of the nicely accepted names, so you may
not be able to get more precise than just "jasper" or "chalcedony" or agate. And
even then, more than a few of these materials are sufficiently mixed with other
minerals that even these names may not be precisely accurate.

As you say, an expert in the materials could likely give you a definitive nice
sounding name. But would that name always be exactly right, or different enough
or more accurate from other names one might also have decided on? Not always.
It's a bit of a muddy area, describing a myriad of varieties of different looks
to essentially related materials that all fall within the same set of
mineralogical/gemological catagories.

There are a few good books published that can give you some clues. John
Sinkankas, quite some years ago, published a fine book on the agates of north
america. I'm not sure if that's the exact title, but it's close. Nice
illustrations that would help. After that, catalogs showing gems or lapidary
materials for sale will also give you clues as to appropriate names to use.

Of course, not all lapidary materials are actually quartz based. There are a
large number of other minerals used for gems as well, and each has it's own name
or set of names for varieties of that material. Telling these apart sometimes
can be done visually, and sometimes needs specific tests. You can find a number
of good books out there on the subject of gem identification that can give you
an idea of how this is done. The classic is Liddicoats "Gem Identification",
the GIA published text on the subject used in their gem identification classes.
But there are quite a number of others too.

Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Red Chalcedony/Carnelian from Yemen Aor Jewelry 0 January 21st 08 09:40 AM
Builder or handyman tools as quilting tools Debra Quilting 17 April 13th 06 03:36 PM
Bead and Button show-working tools Jan G Beads 4 December 21st 05 05:05 AM
Ad: Labradorite, Rose Jasper,& Unakite Carolyn Nelson Beads 6 March 9th 05 04:38 AM
Buttons and Ocean Jasper Christina Peterson Beads 3 October 6th 03 06:10 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.