A crafts forum. CraftBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CraftBanter forum » Craft related newsgroups » Jewelry
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Pin vise



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 29th 09, 05:49 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Charlie Leo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Pin vise

I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild
steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and
gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not
hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a
class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can
anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or
repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we
just can't get a grip on this problem )-: .

Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a
collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the
wire.

Charlie
Ads
  #2  
Old May 29th 09, 05:57 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Pin vise

On Thu, 28 May 2009 21:49:39 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Charlie Leo
wrote:

I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild
steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and
gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not
hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a
class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can
anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or
repair the damage?


Sounds to me like it's not actually made of steel. Behavior like that, with
those soft metals, sounds more like a tool made of brass or nickel silver. I've
seen that style pin vise made of that occasionally. You might try a different
supplier. Check the things to be sure they are indeed steel. If they are, but
are simply so soft, and your use demanding enough that you actually are damaging
steel jaws, then try to harden and temper one. It might be a steel with enough
carbon to allow some hardening and tempering, even if not sold hardened. If it
won't harden, perhaps you could have a local machine shop case harden them for
you. Also, in use, considering that you're using them to twist square wire (a
use which puts more force on those jaw corners than you might realize, be very
sure when using them that the vice is always fully tight on the wire. If you
let it loosen, so it can slip a bit, then each time it slips it will wear down
the corner on the jaw, and that will quickly turn into a vice that cannot get a
good grip. Keep it from slipping in the first place, and it will last longer.
As to repair, you might be able to get a sanding disc mounted on a flex shaft
mandrel down into the slots in the jaws. If so, and you can get it down far
enough (depends on whether the slide gives you enough access), you could widen
the slots slightly. That would recut the corners to a sharp corner again, and
allow it again to grip, so long as the slide doesn't then actually come off...
Worth a try at any rate.

Peter
  #3  
Old May 29th 09, 05:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
ted frater
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Pin vise

Charlie Leo wrote:
I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild
steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and
gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not
hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a
class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can
anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or
repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we
just can't get a grip on this problem )-: .

Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a
collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the
wire.

Charlie


sounds like the wrong tool for the job being used by inexperienced people.

Never knew that pin vices had slide closure of the collet.
I Googled for them and there used mainly in the watch and clock trade
for just holding parts, not taking a twisting load.

Now ive twisted some big wire in my time, 3 by 1/8th in stainless.
used my lathe in low gear and held the other end with 2ft long draw
tongs. The biggest twister is Albert Payley the American iron smith who
twists up 1 in steel bar using a ships mooring capstan.


You can get really small drawtongs about 5in long with a slide lock over
the handles. there hardened steel.Ive a pair here.
Or for a cheaper option ive seen Chinese made mole grips down to 2in
long!. those are overcenter locking and would do the job.
It would be no problem to design an over center locking collet pin vice
specifically for your trade. I would need a production order of say 1000
to warrant the cost.
Let me know off list if your interested and ill quote you .
We can get a grip!! on most problems!!

Ted
Dorset
UK.
  #4  
Old June 2nd 09, 05:34 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
FC...
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Pin vise

On May 28, 10:49*pm, Charlie Leo wrote:
I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild
steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and
gold filled square wire. *After about an hour's use, the vise will not
hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a
class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can
anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or
repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we
just can't get a grip on this problem )-: .

Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a
collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the
wire.

Charlie



I would suggest you buy a milling vise or what is known as a
'machining' vise. They are much, much stronger and have far better
clamping pressure than any bench pin vise. This will allow you to not
only bend, stretch or twist wire, but also, mill, file and drill
pieces of metal as well. They also move in any X or Y axis
combination (infinite adjustments) and can be fitted with all
different types of jaw fittings from leather to rubber, copper,
etc... Many of them also come with a limited lifetime warranty.

Just my .02 cents.....

Cheers,

/MM
  #5  
Old June 2nd 09, 05:42 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W. Rowe[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Pin vise

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:34:11 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "FC..."
wrote:


I would suggest you buy a milling vise or what is known as a
'machining' vise. They are much, much stronger and have far better
clamping pressure than any bench pin vise.



MM, I suspect you misinterpreted both the tool the OP is describing, and it's
use. Pin vises are about the size and shape of a pencil, or half of one, with a
small collet chuck at one or both ends. Used in the hand to gently hold or
manipulate wire, small tools, etc. In wire wrapping, relatively smallish guage
square wire is wrapped around stones for settings, mandrels to make ring shanks,
etc. No solder, but rather the wrapping itself holds the piece together. The
pin vise is used when the maker wishes a short section of the wire to have a
twist. It's generally twisted "in situ", meaning part already extends into the
partially completed work, and the wire extending out with which one is working,
is given a decorative twist, often just in the middle of a part that goes back
into further wrapping. The whole thing is that this is gentle, delicate work
with the wire in the hands, with the vise as a small hand tool assist. A bench
vise or machinists vise is indeed a wonderful tool where indicated, but
completely useless for this application.

Peter
  #6  
Old June 5th 09, 07:24 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default Pin vise

FC... wrote:
On May 28, 10:49 pm, Charlie Leo wrote:
I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild
steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and
gold filled square wire. After about an hour's use, the vise will not
hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a
class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can
anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or
repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we
just can't get a grip on this problem )-: .

Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a
collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the
wire.

Charlie



I would suggest you buy a milling vise or what is known as a
'machining' vise.



I don' think you get the concept of what a "pin vise" is :-)

FYI, it is not something that is used in a milling machine.

May I suggest you google images "pin vise". Very educational.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #7  
Old June 18th 09, 05:45 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Ronnie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Pin vise

Hi Charlie,

I was interested in your question about the defective pin vise
problem, so I wrote to Dale "Cougar" Armstrong, who uses a sliding pin
vise in her DVDs. I received an answer this morning and also an offer
of more help. Here's what she said.

Yes, my favorite pin vise is the 'sliding' style, and I have had a
couple of issues with a few in the past as well. In these cases, the
area where the wire is inserted has been very sharp and causes the
wire to break at the insertion point. In the situation you mention,
it sounds like the insertion edges are 'rounding off', loosing the
'square' that would hold the wire in place. No, not 'defective' as
far as style of unit goes, but maybe with the material used to make
the vise.

She asked where the "defective" pin vise was purchased. If you want
to send me that information, then I will send it on and then send you
her reply.

Ronnie
Buenos Aires and Albany, NY


On May 29, 1:49=A0am, Charlie Leo wrote:
I am using a sliding pin vise for wire wrapping. The vise is a mild
steel, but it wears very rapidly against 21 gauge copper, sterling and
gold filled square wire. =A0After about an hour's use, the vise will not
hold wire for twisting. It's not that I have one bad vise - I teach a
class and we have gone through about 15 to 20 of these things. Can
anyone here tell me what's happening and either how to prevent or
repair the damage? My backup advisors are very knowledgible, but we
just can't get a grip on this problem )-: .

Yes, I can use a normal pin vise with a screw nut compressing a
collet. However, it takes both hands and a longer time to grip the
wire.

Charlie


  #8  
Old June 23rd 09, 02:16 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Charlie Leo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Pin vise


Ronnie - It seems that I have raised a little interest with my pin
vise problem. Some of them were purchased locally, probably under the
brand name EURO TOOL. Some may have come from Rio Grande or Grobet.
Regardless, they all seem to have the same problem. I teach a wire
wrapping class - some of the small tools seem to ‘walk' out of the
class so I have to replace them. So I am not really sure how many I've
gone through. But almost all of them have developed this problem. None
of them seem to break wire, however.

I tried to use fine sand paper to restore the ‘bite' - that didn't
work. I've thought about heat hardening them.. I suppose that since I
have so many defective ones I could cut a couple of the sections off
so I can actually see what's going on. But I was hoping to find some
kind of solution without destroying one or more of them.

Charlie
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CraftBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.