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#1
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Another Mystery "heirloom"
I have a carving set passed on by my mother from her mother's silver
anniversary. She was always proud of this beautiful silver set and we never doubted her. Upon close inspection, it appears to be made from a single piece of metal. There is no visible joint between handle and blade and the entire knife (blade and handel) is magnetic, i.e. sticks to one. The legend on the blade says Rockerford SP Co, Waranted 12 DWT. I think we went through this before but I can not recall what the 12 DWT means other than the obvious. 12 DWT per what? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#2
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Jack Schmidling wrote in message
. .. I have a carving set passed on by my mother from her mother's silver anniversary. She was always proud of this beautiful silver set and we never doubted her. Upon close inspection, it appears to be made from a single piece of metal. There is no visible joint between handle and blade and the entire knife (blade and handel) is magnetic, i.e. sticks to one. The legend on the blade says Rockerford SP Co, Waranted 12 DWT. I think we went through this before but I can not recall what the 12 DWT means other than the obvious. 12 DWT per what? js Dwt means pennyweight, a measure of silver. 12 pennyweight is 3/4 of an ounce which is 16 pennyweight Regards Santosh **[[moderator's note: A slight correction, Santosh. a troy ounce contains 20 pennyweight, not 16. -- pwr ]]** |
#3
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Jack Schmidling wrote:
I have a carving set passed on by my mother from her mother's silver anniversary. She was always proud of this beautiful silver set and we never doubted her. Upon close inspection, it appears to be made from a single piece of metal. There is no visible joint between handle and blade and the entire knife (blade and handel) is magnetic, i.e. sticks to one. The legend on the blade says Rockerford SP Co, Waranted 12 DWT. I think we went through this before but I can not recall what the 12 DWT means other than the obvious. 12 DWT per what? js the 12DWT stands for 12 penny weights. Of what you ask? of silver deposited by electroplating. this could be 12 dwts per dozen knives not per individual knife. your check with a magnet will not tell the whole story as the blade will be steel, with an iron or steel tang up inside thwe handle. the handle will most probabaly be a hollow 2 part nickel silver stamping, being a 5 to 10 % nickel 30 % zinc the rest copper AS for the join, it will be there but covered by the silver plating. the maker doesnt ring a bell amongst the Sheffield flatware list of makers. Have you googled the maker? sounds a USA one. |
#4
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"Ted Frater" the 12DWT stands for 12 penny weights. Of what you ask? of silver deposited by electroplating. this could be 12 dwts per dozen knives not per individual knife.... Well, what is the point in putting it on the knife if it has no standard meaning? It might as well say 16 Tons and make it worthwhile. your check with a magnet will not tell the whole story as the blade will be steel, with an iron or steel tang up inside thwe handle. the handle will most probabaly be a hollow 2 part nickel silver stamping, being a 5 to 10 % nickel 30 % zinc the rest copper... I guess I didn't make it clear but the handle is also magnetic and appears to be solid and of the same material at the blade. If it were just the tang inside some non magnetic metal, the magnetic pull difference would be obvious. AS for the join, it will be there but covered by the silver plating. the maker doesnt ring a bell amongst the Sheffield flatware list of makers. Have you googled the maker? sounds a USA one. Yes but found only resellers of stuff made by them and no address of origin. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#5
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12 pennyweight of silver, plated.
Judy Shaw "Jack Schmidling" wrote in message news I have a carving set passed on by my mother from her mother's silver anniversary. She was always proud of this beautiful silver set and we never doubted her. Upon close inspection, it appears to be made from a single piece of metal. There is no visible joint between handle and blade and the entire knife (blade and handel) is magnetic, i.e. sticks to one. The legend on the blade says Rockerford SP Co, Waranted 12 DWT. I think we went through this before but I can not recall what the 12 DWT means other than the obvious. 12 DWT per what? js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#6
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"Jack Schmidling" wrote in message I have a carving set passed on by my mother from her mother's silver anniversary. She was always proud of this beautiful silver set and we never doubted her. Upon close inspection, it appears to be made from a single piece of metal. There is no visible joint between handle and blade and the entire knife (blade and handel) is magnetic, i.e. sticks to one. The legend on the blade says Rockerford SP Co, Waranted 12 DWT. Could this be the "Rockford" Silver Plate Company? http://www.abesilverman.com/A558.html History of company towards bottom of page. I think we went through this before but I can not recall what the 12 DWT means other than the obvious. 12 DWT per what? js |
#7
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"poorboy" Could this be the "Rockford" Silver Plate Company? http://www.abesilverman.com/A558.html History of company towards bottom of page. That's the place and so happens that Rockford is about 30 miles west of me. But back to the bacic qustion that started it all.... What does 12 DWT mean as part of a hallmark of plated silver. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#8
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:45:22 -0700, in ¸õ Jack Schmidling wrote:
But back to the bacic qustion that started it all.... What does 12 DWT mean as part of a hallmark of plated silver. Well, that's the 64 dollar question, Jack. The trouble is, so far as I know, such a marking has no standard meaning as part of a hallmark, or if it does, non of my references mentions such a marking. That means it's a mark peculiar perhaps to that manufacturer. Just what it means could be anyone's guess. The basic meaning of the term is easy enough. DWT means pennyweight, and 12 pennyweight is 12/20ths of an ounce. That too, means little, since it's not a particularly standard proportion for much of anything that I know of. While it might have been some mark used by more than one manufacturer, it does not appear to be a part of any standardized or legal framework marking system that I can discern. Much the same as an object marked in a certain number of grams, so far as it's literal meaning, but there is nothing in that mark that gives it further meaning. As an example of what might mean more, in gold filled items, one often sees markings like 1/20 12K gold filled. That indicates that 1/20th of the item, usually by weight, consists of 12K gold in the form of a surface bonded layer on either one or both sides. The mark doesn't detail that the gold is a surface layer, it just detals the percentage of the whole, and the quality of that percentage. One needs to know that it refers to that surface layer. Your marking may have some similar meaning, but unlike that gold filled marking, this one doesn't seem to be standard enough to have deserved a note in the references I've got, and since the mark doesn't say 12 dwt of what, or per what other unit, such as dozen items, or pound of items, etc, then who knows what it means. I'd suggest not spending more time on that mark, but rather spend it trying to figure out what you've actually got. If you find a small notch or groove, perhaps damage of some sort that cuts into or better, through, the surface of silver to what's underneath, then applications of various acids to that notch and observing the reactions thereto, can give you an idea of what you've actually got. If there is no existing such notch, a small file can produce one. Be sure you don't mind the damage this causes, before you do it. The other option might be holding off until you are somewhere where you might have access to a knowledgeable antiques dealer, who might know on sight, what it is. Easier to evaluate the thing when it's in your hand, than when it's described in a news message... cheers Peter |
#9
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"Peter W.. Rowe," Well, that's the 64 dollar question, Jack. The trouble is, so far as I know, such a marking has no standard meaning as part of a hallmark.... Ah... so. I googled for Rockford and found lots of stuff for sale and many of them had this mark. It seemed reasonable to assume that it was a standard and so I posed the question. I'd suggest not spending more time on that mark, but rather spend it trying to figure out what you've actually got..... I am pretty sure I know what I got as the magnet tells (enough) all. It was the mark that I wanted to understand. The strange answers I received are now explained by yours. Sometimes, "I don't know" is a really useful answer, especially coming from an expert. I am adding it to my project list to make new handles for them. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.netfirms.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Gems, Sausage, http://schmidling.netfirms.com |
#10
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Jack Schmidling wrote:
"Peter W.. Rowe," Well, that's the 64 dollar question, Jack. The trouble is, so far as I know, such a marking has no standard meaning as part of a hallmark.... Ah... so. I googled for Rockford and found lots of stuff for sale and many of them had this mark. It seemed reasonable to assume that it was a standard and so I posed the question. I'd suggest not spending more time on that mark, but rather spend it trying to figure out what you've actually got..... I am pretty sure I know what I got as the magnet tells (enough) all. It was the mark that I wanted to understand. The strange answers I received are now explained by yours. Sometimes, "I don't know" is a really useful answer, especially coming from an expert. I am adding it to my project list to make new handles for them. js Jack, your last sentence, your going to make some new handles. Thinking ahead, that will be the easy bit for you as I guess you might be casting them out of silver. Very nice too. .. However have you thought about the real problem? that is of joining the handles to the blades? You will need to be quite sure how the existing handles are affixed to the blades. This may be the traditional way of using a blade extension called a tang that goes up inside a hollow in the handle and the gap between the two is filled with some kind of setting substance. Or there might not be a tang and the handle is silver soldered to the blade via a butt joint. now if it were me id try and get an xray image just to see whats inside of the handle area so what ever you do is not destructive. If you cant get an x ray, then this is where your jewellers saw will come in. Get some aluminium or lead soft sheet and make up some vice jaw covers. Clamp your knife blade inbetween, then using your jewellers saw cut though where the handle is joined to the blade all around the knife no more than 1/16th in deep. this will seperate the handle in such a way as to enable you to put it back if theres no way you can fix your new handles.. Once you see how the handle is fixed to the blade youll be able to invent a fixing method. If youve a tang then youll need to drill the new handle to accomodate this. whenever blades are joined to handles in the cutlery trade where ther blade is steel and the handle is a non ferrous metasl they arwe usually brazed together if theres no tang. If the handle is say bone or some other organic material then a tang is used either right through or partly through. If the handle is silver then they are usually made in 2 halfs being stamped from sheet between dies then silver brazed together. then the hollow handle is filled with a resinous pitch and the tang pushedinto this. Once set it holds well. however as many people have found out putting these handles into boiling water like in a dish washer the handles come off!. Ive had many to repair over the years. If it were me and I wanted to know how they were made as well as by whom, you say that the co could be just 30 miles away. how about calling them to check? if they did make them they might just have the records and tell you how the handles were put on as well as the info on the 12 DWTS.. I had to make some replica hub caps for a 1930 plymouth some years ago the makers name was inside an original I had as the pattern. I looked them up on the net and they were still in business! in your country. they were a great help tho the original dies were scrapped some years ago. |
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