help please.

You do sound like you need a safe place to talk out the uncertainty
that goes with working for a wobbly company. Maybe just decide to
prepare -definitely- for a layoff in November, since that will allow
you to take steps that are in your own favor, instead of waiting for
the axe to fall.

Deirdre

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 18:51:39 GMT, "Helen C"
wrote:

Is there someone you can call and vent
to? (That always seems to help me) Telling us here helps, I know, I've
done it enough. Don't need anyone to do anything other than listen.

These are symptoms, not circumstances -- see?

Depression is a sort of mental exhaustion, so that we forget our keys, or
what building we need to go to, or aren't attentive enough on the road, or
need more sleep.


~~
Sooz
-------
"Selective deafness, it's a wonderful thing." ~Kathy N-V
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

Don't make things from scratch.

This is why I don't do things that Tink, for instance, sees as second nature.
I buy things, instead of making them. Then I put them together to make
jewelry. In other words, I don't *make* the beads, I buy them.. I buy takeout
food, too, frequently. Etc.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Selective deafness, it's a wonderful thing." ~Kathy N-V
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

And don't worry about pills. If they work, use them. Would you feel bad
about taking insulin if it kept you functioning?

I had baaaad experiences with some pills used for Depression. But others
helped me a LOT. That's the way it works sometimes. I tried Paxil, for
instance -- it made me unable to hold still long enough to sleep -- which was
worse than it sounds. I also took one that gave me night terrors bad enough to
have to call doctors at 3 am to get me through it. And other pills that didn't
work. Sometimes you just have to be brave, keep trying -- not give up because
it's bad.

What's worse? Life the way it is now, or another pill that could possibly give
you a whole new outlook and handle on life? Another pill made me feel like I'd
been underwater til I took it -- and now I could actually breathe AIR! It was
worth all the trials and tribulations of the previous horrors!
~~
Sooz
-------
"Selective deafness, it's a wonderful thing." ~Kathy N-V
ESBC
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html
~ Bead Notes: Beading information A - Z
http://www.lampwork.net/beadnotes.html

Actually, I can't think of a way that has more compassion for others'
difficulties built into it.

Having felt many of the wounds yourself, you aren't going to devalue
other people for being affected by theirs.

Deirdre

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:46:58 GMT, "Christina Peterson"
wrote:

Tina
(wish I didn't learn psychology first hand!)

I have days like that. Don't let yourself get too down for being human. We
ALL have bad days. It's just normal.

Sending good """"vibes"""" your way.

Starlia
"Marisa E Exter" wrote in message
...
this is just a horrible day for me. for no particular reason.

more of the same at work... ambiguous etc. I won't say mor ethat may be
considered corporate information, and I know this is the same for
everybody.

last night I locked my keys in the car with the radio on and had to call
my dad
to help me. mad at myself for that.

couldn't get up this morning. mad at myself for that.

got in a fight with people. mad at myself for that.
if my boss ahd been there when I walked by her office, I would've quit, I
really
would've.
She wasn't. I went ahead and went downstairs to the gym I just joined in
the
building and forced myself to do the treadmill. still upset but had
talked
myself into the fact that although I know people probably didn't think I
acted
normally, they would'nt have seen it as bad as I did .
even got myself out of there before the cafetaria closed (didnt feel like
the
same instant soup I've been eating every day DH has been out of town).
they
actually had a really good looking vegetarian soup. got that. wanted to
sit in
the caf and not come back to my desk., but I saw someone sitting who I
knew but
I thought wouldnt want me to join him but I wasn't sure... so I just left
the
caf. spilled my cup of ice all over the floor. was on teh floor tryuing
to
pick up ice as it melted.... etc.
got backt o my desk. knocked over another vessel of fluid on my desk.
wiped
that up. spilled soup on my keyboard.

by now people have talked to me again and are talking normally about lunch
and
things like that. so calming down a little, enough to maybe not run to my
boss's office and quit or take the afternoon off (I've been fighting
myself
every day to not call off of work or leave early, since I got back to
work).

So I really don't know exactly what I'm asking, but you guys always have
good
advice.

How do I not quit? I know I really need to wait to get laid off and/or
things
get better. Even if I got laid off it wont be till November.

marisa2

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:46:58 GMT, "Christina Peterson"
wrote:

Depression is a sort of mental exhaustion, so that we forget our keys, or
what building we need to go to, or aren't attentive enough on the road, or
need more sleep. So what we need isn't more ways to be happy, but more ways
to conserve our mental energy. Prioritize way past what you think is
reasonable. Don't worry as much about how the house looks as long as living
conditions are safe. Don't make things from scratch. Don't take on your
husband's responsibilities (that's a hard one).

And don't worry about pills. If they work, use them. Would you feel bad
about taking insulin if it kept you functioning?

Tina, thank you for this eloquent post. You have really done you good
deed for this week. I suffer from Bi-Polar disorder, but not
depression to normal, but severe depression (once on the verge of
catatonia) to mania (occasional psycotic features). Lucky me. Your
description of living with depression is one of the best I've ever
read. I hope you won't mind if I pass it on to others as I need to
explain depression to them.

I usually explain it by saying that it takes all of my emotional
energy just to get through the day; I don't have any left over for
anything over and above that -- things like loving my husband, or
enjoying an evening out with my friends. Or remembering my keys.

Thanks again Tina,

Jewitch

I am lucky to be able to be open with my Depression. I'm happy to have my
description be useful, or to be shared. And I'm grateful that even though I
have Depression, I don't have the constant worry that my mental state is
going to switch, like you do.

A priority so basic as being loving to you husband or children, or getting
out of bed to pee, sometimes really is all a person can do.

Tina


"Jewitch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 00:46:58 GMT, "Christina Peterson"
wrote:

Depression is a sort of mental exhaustion, so that we forget our keys, or
what building we need to go to, or aren't attentive enough on the road,
or
need more sleep. So what we need isn't more ways to be happy, but more
ways
to conserve our mental energy. Prioritize way past what you think is
reasonable. Don't worry as much about how the house looks as long as
living
conditions are safe. Don't make things from scratch. Don't take on your
husband's responsibilities (that's a hard one).

And don't worry about pills. If they work, use them. Would you feel bad
about taking insulin if it kept you functioning?

Tina, thank you for this eloquent post. You have really done you good
deed for this week. I suffer from Bi-Polar disorder, but not
depression to normal, but severe depression (once on the verge of
catatonia) to mania (occasional psycotic features). Lucky me. Your
description of living with depression is one of the best I've ever
read. I hope you won't mind if I pass it on to others as I need to
explain depression to them.

I usually explain it by saying that it takes all of my emotional
energy just to get through the day; I don't have any left over for
anything over and above that -- things like loving my husband, or
enjoying an evening out with my friends. Or remembering my keys.

Thanks again Tina,

Jewitch

"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:1060303617.880603@prawn...
Marisa, I hear you loud and clear. You are describing living with
Depression. No tfeeling depressed but having Depression. I need to give
you a long answer, so I have to wait just a bit.

Has anyone explained to you what Depression is? Usually all we hear about
are symptoms, such as melancholy. But if melancholy was what Depression
really was, all we'd have to buck up and smile like those people who don't
understand keep telling us to do.

Depression is a sort of mental exhaustion, so that we forget our keys, or
what building we need to go to, or aren't attentive enough on the road, or
need more sleep. So what we need isn't more ways to be happy, but more
ways
to conserve our mental energy. Prioritize way past what you think is
reasonable. Don't worry as much about how the house looks as long as
living
conditions are safe.

I'm trying not to worry about it so much. Which actually makes it easier
to clean.
(People who think I'm a perfectionist don't believe me when I say our house
is a pig sty. But it is. If I don't watch it, we end up with rooms where
you LITERALLY can't walk through, and even when I do "watch it" there are
visible layers of dust around and I won't go into the kitchen situation.
Oh, Mucha isn't much of a help either bird droppings, seed husks,
regurgitated seeds, and feathers EVERYWHERE.)

I used to come home, see this enormous mess, and feel it was a reflection of
my inner state: a mess so huge and complex that it was impossible to deal
with, and so all-encompasing that there was no non-messed up spot to rest my
eyes on. I would walk around the house muttering about everything and DH
would feel horrible (he feels like it is his responsibility to keep the
house clean because he isn't working. For a while he had me convinced of
that. The problem is, he isn't very good at it (not that I am either) and
this pattern just made him feel guilty and me feel mad. (Luckily he is a
GREAT cook although for both of our own good I think it is best for me to
start cooking once a week or so at least)).

On this specifically I've been doing better... but then, it's been a LOT
easier since DH has been out of town. I'm not a neat person by nature, but
he just somehow can the entire place up in one day, even if he hasn't been
home.

Don't make things from scratch. Don't take on your
husband's responsibilities (that's a hard one).

And don't worry about pills. If they work, use them. Would you feel bad
about taking insulin if it kept you functioning?


I've been through 2 years of medicine and 2 months of out-patient treatment
(though in the out-patient treatment I wish they had focused more on the
specifics of my illness... it was all group therapy and depending on the
group present we may've spent more time talking about manic-depression or
alcoholism)

After being through the hospital program I got to see very vividly how other
people interact with these meds. Some people had vast improvements, some
reacted to side effects and some didn't (many people just have side effects
the first week or so. I had HORRIBLE side effects the first week or so
going on or off any medication, and more subtle but ultimately unbareable
side-effects long-term.) I can see why some people need them. Maybe I'm
one of them, but I hope not.

The overriding reason I don't want to take the medicines is because they
messed with my mind big time. The last set of them messed with me
emotionally as well (though for a long time we thought it was just not a
strong enough dose, and kept raising it...and I kept loosing more and more
touch with reality.) As bad as I seem right now I am eons better then I was
4 months ago. Yesterday I was too upset to totally realize it but today I
am reminding myself of it. It was horrible. The fact that I could not only
think of a story idea but also write it down the week before last, the fact
that I could drive a car or be in a room containing a large number of people
in it or be touched by my husband and just feel mildly uncomfortable instead
of wanting to run screaming... even the fact that yesterday I "only" felt
like I wanted to quit, but didn't feel like I wanted to take a piece of our
lab equiptment and bash it against the floor, and most importantly (for me)
that when I DO have work to do I can understand it once again instead of
sitting there in a complete haze, those are all things that weren't possible
under the last several combinations of medicinces. And it took a long time
to figure out it was the medicine and not just me going crazier.

Going off of them was something my (new) psychiatrist and I discussed
carefully. It was originally supposed to be a "wash-out" and 3 month trial
period. The last couple of times my improvement was so emense that he was
totally behind me in my desire not to go onto any meds again, although he
suggested which ones we would try next if we were to try some (older ones
with odd side effects and very new ones which are very expensive, mostly,
since I had tried one from each of the standard families).

Usually Depression is cyclical. I manage enough in my better time not to
be
"overstimulated" (do too much) so that I don't tip into a down cycle, and
instead am simply always on low output. For others there's a more medical
aspect to the ups and downs. Also a person can be "bi-polar" between low
and normal.


I don't know if I ever really have ups. Since getting off all the
medicinces I have had a large amount of time where I felt much better, with
scattered worse patches which I was proud of pulling myself out of instead
of letting them drag me all the way down again. This week has been a
downward trend though.

They think I've had it since I was a teenager at LEAST after taking my
history. When I told my mom, she said she wished we had figured this out
sooner. She obvioulsy felt that I had had it for a very long time. (I
personally can't remember being truely "happy" since I was pretty little,
maybe 7 or so. (*Lsorta* that was when my brother was born. But I regard
that as being the happiest event in my life, so I'm not blaming him!!)).

I started seeing psychiatrists and taking medicinces 2 (well, more like 2
1/2) years ago now, after my grandfather died. At the time I was completely
overwhelmed with all kinds of activities and things pulling at me
emotionally. I had always believed that medicines would be horrible, but at
that time, after the doctor explained to me that it was probably a checmical
problem, I was more then ready to say "I can take a pill and it will fix
this?? Give it to me!". Unfortunately, no combinations of the pills have
ever "fixed" it. Side-effects ranged to downright intollerable to just
unpleasant, but none of the medications actually worked, and we kept upping
doses until we got to the legal max, then switching.

Most Depression can be addressed by doctors and clinicians. Mine could
not,
and likely yours also is more complicated than can be addressed by the
usual
methods. Chronic Depression most often cannot be (or it wouldn't be
chronic,
eh). You probably need a psychologist, one who views his work as art,
where
each case must be looked at individually and creatively. Psychiatrists
are
doctors who specialize in brain chemistry and are usually your best bet
for
getting the best drug or combination for a problem that may be completely
medical.

And I want to also tell you that though I have a big injury (Depression),
mentally I am healthier and stronger than I have ever been. I feel better
about myself and my worth than I ever have. I am "better" than ever, but
still seriously effected by Depression.


Is this through medication, other things, or both?

I'm open to any tips although as you can see I'm biased against medication.
(I have another appointment with my psychiatrist in 3 months. When he saw
me last week I was doing so well, relatively speaking, that he asked if I
wanted to make another appointment again or just "put him in my back
pocket". If I still feel lousy then, MAYBE I'll try something again. Right
now I want to stick it out... as impossible as that seems some days.)

Also, and I'm on thin ice here, hanging onto someone for support is often
part of Co-dependence, which is a huge contributor to Depression. That
may
(or may not) be something you need to look at too.


I know people in the program felt that that was a big problem for me.

I think I have worked hard on disentangling myself emotionally from my
parents and brother and cousin and grandparents, and for a while at least I
feel I can't even see them as much as before because I need to be able to
keep my emotional distance. They don't need or want my "help" and me
worrying obsessively but silently about things I can't change just makes me
crazy, it doesn't help anyone else.
I don't seem to be able to distance myself from my husband this way though.

I really thought that I was much calmer and taking things less personally at
work as well, but people's reactions to me yesterday pointed out that
whatever I *think* I'm doing, I must've been appearing to react to things in
my same old pattern. And yesterday wasn't the first time I've gotten such
reactions since I've gotten back at work. So I started out mad at them,
then after replaying in my head a bunch of times got really mad at myself.

*sighs*

Thanks for listening and for the advise.

I guess everyone takes a turn spewing their guts here, right?

marisa2

Tina
(wish I didn't learn psychology first hand!)

But you DID learn, and you share what you know. Good on you!! as they say in
Canada.
Sarajane

Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
http://www.polyclay.com

view my auctions at:
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