diamond ring

I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was 1000$,
never wore this ring
Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$ thats
obvious

M
Seattle

I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices can be
horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's all
probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone. Now
unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which I
doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery), she'd be
lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO.

"KG" wrote in message
...

"Misia" wrote in message
...
I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was
1000$,
never wore this ring
Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$
thats
obvious

M
Seattle


Misia,

Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time for it.
Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area. In either
case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it, but you
can
try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if you're
lucky
and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than a
"store
cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market).

Good luck,
KG

"KG" wrote in message
...

"Misia" wrote in message
...
I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was
1000$,
never wore this ring
Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$
thats
obvious

M
Seattle


Misia,

Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time for
it.
Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area. In
either
case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it, but you
can
try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if you're
lucky
and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than a
"store
cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market).

Good luck,
KG



"GhostMouse" wrote in message
...
I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices can be
horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's all
probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone. Now
unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which I
doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery), she'd be
lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO.

You're right that she may end up with $250.... as I said "IF you're lucky
AND if the certification is an excellent one -- not a store certification."
I've seen prices on eBay strongly influenced by the presence of a GIA cert.
With patience and luck, if she's got a GIA cert, she may get 1/2 of her
retail price. But she's likely to get a lot less.

KG

"KG" wrote in message
...


"KG" wrote in message
...

"Misia" wrote in message
...
I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price was
1000$,
never wore this ring
Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for 20$
thats
obvious

M
Seattle


Misia,

Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time for
it.
Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area. In
either
case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it, but
you
can
try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if you're
lucky
and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than a
"store
cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market).

Good luck,
KG



"GhostMouse" wrote in message
...
I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices can
be
horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's all
probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone. Now
unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which I
doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery), she'd
be
lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO.

You're right that she may end up with $250.... as I said "IF you're lucky
AND if the certification is an excellent one -- not a store
certification."
I've seen prices on eBay strongly influenced by the presence of a GIA
cert.
With patience and luck, if she's got a GIA cert, she may get 1/2 of her
retail price. But she's likely to get a lot less.

KG


I find it distressing that in all likelihood, there is no GIA certificate.
When shopping for cars, people go to great lengths to learn about them
first, or they take someone with them who is knowledgable...but when they
are going to purchase jewellery, most go in unfamiliar with what's out there
and emotion often influences their decision. They see a store "certificate"
that is, as you've pointed out, pretty worthless, and mistake it for a real
appraisal/GIA certificate, or believe it is an indication of the true value
of the piece, and end up spending large amounts of money--four figures and
up--on something that they can't turn around and sell the next day for more
than 25% of the price they paid!

Actually, if you don't mind me going a bit OT, there are many jewellers out
there who BANK on their customers' ignorance! There is this (and I use the
term lightly) jewellery store in my area that advertises how they give
credit to anyone and that they are so great for rebuilding bad credit. This
place sells cheap, poor quality jewellery and marks it up high. Some poor
sap comes in wanting to buy his girlfriend a pair of earrings and sees a
pair of 1/4 ct. diamond studs for $300, and doesn't know the difference
between a good and bad diamond at all. The store requires a 25% down
payment ($75) and finances the rest, and their advertising claims they are
such great humanitarians for doing this. This guy thinks he's found such a
wonderful store to extend him credit when he's new on the job or has a bad
credit rating, when in fact the price of his down payment alone would have
bought him a pair of 1/4 ct. diamond studs if he'd just shopped around some,
so the store has already got the earrings paid for and the money they are
financing is just pure profit--profit with 18-22% APR! This poor sap is now
in debt $225 for no reason other than the fact that he's looking to rebuild
his credit, and doesn't know anything about the merchandise he's bought, so
he can't TELL if he's been had! He hangs onto that store certificate with
pride, believing he has bought something valuable for his beloved and that
certificate will mean something at some point in time. And if Misia's ring
was purchased from one of those kinds of places, that $1000 means even less.
If that was the case, chances are Misia will be lucky to get $75-$100 for
the ring!

This type of jewellery store THRIVES due to the fact that they are banking
(pun intended) on the ignorance and emotions of their customers. They prey
on mostly low income people, selling them incredibly poor quality
merchandise for grossly inflated prices, and deliberately get them into
needless debt, all for the 'priviledge' of letting them build their credit!
They are paying out JUST to get a good credit rating and really don't even
have a decent piece of jewellery to show for the money they spent! Their
down payment most likely covered the cost of the jewellery, so they aren't
"financing" anything! Those stores' real profits aren't from jewellery
sales; they are from all the high interest credit contracts they get people
into!

That type of business does well and as a result, there are a lot of people
out there believing they have $1000 rings and $300 earrings, when in fact
they have $100 rings and $75 earrings, and they end up believing that all
jewellers are like used car salesmen and can't be trusted. I'd love to see
those kinds of stores shut down, but instead, they are growing like weeds!
One chain of these stores in my area was just taken over from the annoying
owner who did cheesy commercials, and the group that bought it out is now
planning national expansion! What a shame...

Sorry about the rant...

Dont be sorry about the rant!!,
One of the best pieces on this newsgroup for some time.
The stores you describe are sailing far too close to the wind, this is
a dangerous thing to do, because they might be able to cheat most of the
people most of the time , but one day someone who doesnt take to being
stitched up will realise they have been taken for a ride and will take
the appropriate retribution and be clever enough to get away with it.
Like for example fire bombing the store or worse still dealing with
the cheat in whatever way he deserves.

"KG" wrote in message
...

"GhostMouse" wrote in message
...

"KG" wrote in message
...


"KG" wrote in message
...

"Misia" wrote in message
...
I need to sell my diamond ring( with certificate) original price
was
1000$,
never wore this ring
Any advice where to sell it and how? I dont want to sell it for
20$
thats
obvious

M
Seattle


Misia,

Ebay would probably be a good option if you want to take the time
for
it.
Otherwise, you could try an estate jewelry buyer in your area.
In
either
case, it's very unlikely you will get the price you paid for it,
but
you
can
try. You will likely end up getting in the 500 -750 range, if
you're
lucky
and if the cert is an excellent one (GIA, for example) rather than
a
"store
cert" (which is pretty worthless on the larger market).

Good luck,
KG



"GhostMouse" wrote in message
...
I think the $500-750 range on eBay is awfully high. Retail prices
can
be
horribly inflated....especially compared to eBay! Of course it's
all
probably going to come down to the size and quality of the stone.
Now
unless she got some kind of incredibly good deal on that ring (which
I
doubt...most people don't really know how to shop for jewellery),
she'd
be
lucky to get $250 for it on eBay, IMHO.

You're right that she may end up with $250.... as I said "IF you're
lucky
AND if the certification is an excellent one -- not a store
certification."
I've seen prices on eBay strongly influenced by the presence of a GIA
cert.
With patience and luck, if she's got a GIA cert, she may get 1/2 of
her
retail price. But she's likely to get a lot less.

KG


I find it distressing that in all likelihood, there is no GIA
certificate.
When shopping for cars, people go to great lengths to learn about them
first, or they take someone with them who is knowledgable...but when
they
are going to purchase jewellery, most go in unfamiliar with what's out
there
and emotion often influences their decision. They see a store
"certificate"
that is, as you've pointed out, pretty worthless, and mistake it for a
real
appraisal/GIA certificate, or believe it is an indication of the true
value
of the piece, and end up spending large amounts of money--four figures
and
up--on something that they can't turn around and sell the next day for
more
than 25% of the price they paid!

Actually, if you don't mind me going a bit OT, there are many jewellers
out
there who BANK on their customers' ignorance!
rant about unethical jewelers snipped for brevity

That type of business does well and as a result, there are a lot of
people
out there believing they have $1000 rings and $300 earrings, when in
fact
they have $100 rings and $75 earrings, and they end up believing that
all
jewellers are like used car salesmen and can't be trusted.

I couldn't be more violently in agreement with you, and there is one more
piece to that puzzle... the "appraisal." It's bad enough that these
stores
sell shoddy merchandise through deceptive selling practices to customers
who
SHOULD do their homework, but then they add insult to injury by providing
or
recommending an "insurance appraisal." That appraisal is almost always
based on the RETAIL price paid for the item, no matter how inflated the
price was. A true insurance appraisal should be based -- as should any
insurance of the piece -- on the REPLACEMENT value of the piece.

I hadn't even thought of that. Good point.

Say a customer loses a ring valued at $1000 retail. It's likely that the
insurance company will be working with a wholesale jeweler to replace the
ring, which means they will get the replacement for somewhere in the
neighborhood of $250 - 380, depending on the original markup policies of
the
selling jeweler. However, the owner of the ring has been paying premiums
for 10 years based on the insurer having to spend $1000 to replace the
ring.
SO.... the insurer has nicely made an even bigger profit of of the
customer.

Hardly seems fair, but when it comes to making a profit, most places are
shameless about their practices.


In the interest of full disclosure here, I am a jeweler, specializing in
unique fine jewelry, much of which is hand-crafted. I work out of my own
studio and do a lot of "shop at home" work with my customers -- we sit
down
and discuss what they want and what their design tastes are, and browse
through catalogs of mountings and designs to decide on the best
combination.
One thing I pride myself on is helping my clients EDUCATE themselves about
their choices. We discuss the pros/cons of various karats of gold and
look
at real examples, wherever possible, of the differences in color/clarity
of
diamonds and colored stones. By the time they choose, they make an
informed
choice within their budget, and I like to think they have developed a
degree
of trust in me. As a result, they aren't hesitant to come back to me and
to
recommend others. AND, I can offer this type of service at a significant
discount to the mall store prices.... which tells you a LOT about just how
inflated those prices are.

Believe me, I KNOW how inflated they are. I am not a jeweller, just a very
informed customer. I just happen to be that way about everything I put good
money into, and it did help that I used to date a jeweller/appraiser for
awhile. As a huge consumer of jewellery, I paid attention to the
instruction I got, and even though we don't date anymore, we have remained
in touch even though he's still in Canada and I'm now in America. Thank
goodness for email!

Consumers do want to be educated to a degree so that they can feel
comfortable that they're not being ripped off. Unfortunately, the
environment of many jewelry stores is designed to dazzle and intimidate
and
the "patter" of the salespeople is designed to make the customer feel even
more intimidated by their own lack of knowledge. I like to think I
provide
a service as well as a product by my approach to consultation and sales.

I wish more jewellers would do what you do, and what my friend does--EDUCATE
rather than try to dazzle. Their way may work for the immediate sale, but
the long term sales can't be good the way they do it! Like most things
these days, it's just NOW, NOW, NOW and never think ahead. The jewellers of
old really did work hard to cultivate a client. These days it's just a
matter of enough flash and dazzle to get their money and hell with 'em once
they've gone out the door with their overpriced purchase in hand.

It's good to know not all jewellers have fallen into that pit! What area do
you practice in, KG?

Ghose Mouse


KG

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:30:34 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "KG"
wrote:

I couldn't be more violently in agreement with you, and there is one more
piece to that puzzle... the "appraisal." It's bad enough that these stores
sell shoddy merchandise through deceptive selling practices to customers who
SHOULD do their homework, but then they add insult to injury by providing or
recommending an "insurance appraisal." That appraisal is almost always
based on the RETAIL price paid for the item, no matter how inflated the
price was. A true insurance appraisal should be based -- as should any
insurance of the piece -- on the REPLACEMENT value of the piece.

Say a customer loses a ring valued at $1000 retail. It's likely that the
insurance company will be working with a wholesale jeweler to replace the
ring, which means they will get the replacement for somewhere in the
neighborhood of $250 - 380, depending on the original markup policies of the
selling jeweler. However, the owner of the ring has been paying premiums
for 10 years based on the insurer having to spend $1000 to replace the ring.
SO.... the insurer has nicely made an even bigger profit of of the customer.

Well,

I've kinda got to jump in on this one.

While it's certainly true that there are many times where shoddy stores are
using "in store' appraisals to defend their prices, not all of them are quite
as bad as represented here.

The impression, given above, that "replacement" value is what an appraisal
should state, and that this should reflect only the wholesale cost to the
insurance company, is generally NOT correct.

An apprasal can properly state almost any market level the appraiser wishes to
state, so long as it's clearly stated on the appraisal just what that market
level is, and what the intended purpose of the appraisal is, and so long as the
stated purpose of the appraisal is indeed appropriate to the chosen market
level.

Many of the store appraisals I've seen amount to little more than a detailed
reciept, stating the normal retail price of the item AT THAT STORE. This is not
a proper and true appraisal, per se, but it does offer at least the written
statement from the store of what their price is, and hopefully, some written
documentation as to what they state the quality of the merchandise is. This, at
least, is better than nothing. It's ethical, so long as the customer
understands that this in no way attempts to represent the overall market value
of the piece, but only what the thing costs at that store, regardless of what a
competitor might charge. In some cases, this may be a usable price for
insurance, in the case of a unique item, perhaps copyrighted by the seller, for
use in an insurance policy that provides for exact replacement, rather than the
more usual policy that would insure for the market value. In this case, since
the only exact replacement of a copyrighted original piece would have to come
from the original source, then perhaps this value would be acceptable. Note,
this is not normally the case, but it IS possible.

Far more commonly, as the poster states, an appraisal should be for insurance
replacement purposes, and will need to reflect the market value. Often this is
stated as "replacement value". This is NOT the wholesale value. It is NOT what
an insurance company might be able to contract with a jeweler to pay. It must
reflect the wider, real market value. The original item was purchased by the
consumer, not the insurance company, and the replacement value is the average
expected price that the retail buyer, either the original consumer or another
typical buyer in the same geographical area, could reasonably expect to pay for
another similar item. It should take into account the most likely marketplace
for the item, which normally will be retail stores. It may not be the most
expensive stores around, nor the cheapest, unless the appraiser can reasonably
show that the most likely place the average consumer would purchase such an
item would indeed be the most expensive, or the cheapest, possible sources.

The reason this is important is simply that most insurance companies do NOT go
about actually buying the consumer another item when one is lost. They simply
write a check. That check needs to be enough to let a prudent buyer replace the
item. Thus the need to determine a true, most likely, retail replacement cost.
In most of the cases I've seen where the insurance company was working with a
jeweler to buy an item, it's not a complete piece being purchased, but rather
things like replacing a stone lost from a ring, where the ring is still in hand.

Also not all polices offer actual replacement values of lost items. Such
polices cost a bit more. The most common policies don't insure for replacement
values, but rather, for the actual market value of the item. This will take
into account the age and condition of the actual item that was lost, with
depreciation if any, and the like. So a proper appraisal must then find not
the retail replacement value, but the market value. For some appraisals, such
as estate appraisals (used for taxes, and needing to conform to IRS guidelines),
the fair market value has little to do with the retail replacement cost, but
rather reflects the most likely price paid for the actual item, if sold. That
means a "used" price, in whatever can be shown as the most likely place such an
item would be sold. Needless to say, determining this type of value is a good
deal more complex than the usual jewelery store insurance appraisal.

Finally, in this whole thread, there's been this thrashing of certain classes of
jewelry stores over the implied obscenely high markups. While I certainly
don't argue that there are stores charging much too much, I'd also point out
that the average store is not making as much profit, overall, as these markups
may imply. Few are hauling in the cash in quite the way this thread has
suggested.

Shopping malls are costly places to do business. The rent is usually on a
pricey per square foot basis, with often a significant added percentage of the
overall gross proceeds going to the mall. Add to this the fact that jewelery
stores are not like grocery stores with folks lined up at the registers. It's
not uncommon for a store to have only a few sales per day. This then needs to
generate enough profit to pay all the sales people and other workers in the
store, it has to pay the often hefty other business costs, such as insurance,
security, heat and light, and the like, perhaps make the payments on original
store consutruction loans, and then to top it all off, it's got to generate
enough profit that, when expressed as a percentage of the overall inventory
owned by the store, the profit is enough that the owner is still better off
owning this inventory, instead of just leaving it all in cash in the bank,
without the cost of doing business. People who look only at the markup
percentages are fooling themselves. Many mall stores may charge markups of
three or more times the wholesale costs of the merchandise, yet in the end may
be operating at an overall net profit margin of only a few percent per year,
especially in today's economy. We talk about high markups only because the
markup only knows the original purchase price of the jewelry. It forgets,
totally, about all the other costs of obtaining the jewelry, and offering it for
sale. It's not uncommon for a retail jewelry store to have several million
dollars in inventory. Just how much profit does a store have to make before
this is better than one can do in bank certificates of deposit? You do the
math.

It's against that background, one where frankly, it's easier to go out of
business than it is to remain profitable, that there are certainly temptations
for some businesses to cut corners and cheat. It's sad when some do. Yet I'd
venture to say that the majority of jewelers and jewelry stores, even the
chains, are still playing fair, and by at least most of the rules. It's true
that some of the sales people in the chain stores are undereducated, and may not
always properly represent the full truth of their merchandise. That's sad too.
But even they are usually trying to at least be reasonably honest, so far as
they know how to. From what i've seen, most of the folks in this business are
NOT out to rip anyone off or cheat anyone. There are exceptions, of course,
and perhaps more than just a few. But still, the majority of those in the
business mean well and try to do the right things.

With that said, it's also doubtless that there is a very wide range of costs one
can pay for a given piece of jewelry if one takes the time to look. An educated
consumer is much better able to judge for themselves whether a price is a good
one or not, or whether a given stores price, even if a little higher, may be
justified by increased levels of service or other benefits over going to the
cheapest sources. There's power in knowledge, and consumers who do their
homework and understand what they're buying, whether jewelry or any other item
to be purchased, will get more for their money.

And, in addition to the widely visible large chain stores in malls, there are a
lot of smaller, less visible stores and business, from "mom and pop" stores on
the street, to artists working from little hole in the wall offices somewhere or
even from their homes, who are all able and eager to try to compete with the
big stores. With often lower operating costs, they can offer lower prices. And
often, with better trained people as well, to offer higher levels of service and
expertise. But it takes a little more effort to find this type of jeweler.
That's what keeps the mall stores in business. Some folks are too lazy, or have
too little time, to be able to make that effort.

Try, you non-jewelers in this group, as well as some of you jewelers, not to
get too cynical about all jewelers, While there are certainly some out there
well deserving of your scorn, I still think it's fair to say that most, even the
high priced ones, are not the cheats and imcompetent scoundrels some posts in
this thread seem to imply.

Peter Rowe

"Peter W. Rowe" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:30:34 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "KG"

wrote:

I couldn't be more violently in agreement with you, and there is one
more
piece to that puzzle... the "appraisal."
(snip)

Well,

I've kinda got to jump in on this one.

While it's certainly true that there are many times where shoddy stores
......(most of the quoted text, snipped by moderator for readability...)
high priced ones, are not the cheats and imcompetent scoundrels some posts
in
this thread seem to imply.

In no way was I trying to imply that even high priced (read: mall jewellery
stores) stores are cheats. I specifically was targeting those stores that
offer credit to anyone, even those who ordinarily wouldn't get an account
with a Zales or DeVons, or a place like that. Those places aren't really
jewellers, IMNSHO. It is nothing but a scam, pure and simple, and it IS one
that is growing! And I do believe that they give real jewellery stores a
bad name.

For the record, no, I won't really do much, if any business with mall
jewellery stores. I've found that I can virtually always get better deals
elsewhere. I wouldn't tell anyone NOT to go to one of them, because at
least their jewellery is of some decent quality, albeit overpriced, but they
would never be my choice! I also see no point in trashing them. They are
at least basically honest, just expensive. That's not a crime. I will,
however, go on long and loud about visiting those annoying "we'll give
credit to anyone" jewellers, because they really aren't in the jewellery
business! Those are con artists in suits, and nothing more, and their
targets are nearly always those who can afford to get ripped off the
least--the low income people of the world.

Ghost Mouse

"ted.frater" wrote in message
...
Dont be sorry about the rant!!,
One of the best pieces on this newsgroup for some time.
The stores you describe are sailing far too close to the wind, this is
a dangerous thing to do, because they might be able to cheat most of the
people most of the time , but one day someone who doesnt take to being
stitched up will realise they have been taken for a ride and will take
the appropriate retribution and be clever enough to get away with it.
Like for example fire bombing the store or worse still dealing with
the cheat in whatever way he deserves.

Yikes, I'd hate to think anyone would go that far because they got
overcharged! While I don't think ANY retailer should bank on their
customer's ignorance, I also don't think they would deserve to get
firebombed or worse over doing it! After all, any customer who knowingly
walks into a store to purchase something expensive and hasn't bothered to
read up a little or bring someone knowledgable may not be asking for
problems, but in this day and age they have to be aware that there is always
someone looking to take advantage of someone who hasn't done their homework!
It's a sad, but true fact of life in the 21st century, and firebombing is
NOT the solution, don't you think?