Punch Needle Embroidery

Hi Mirjam,

Thanks for replying to this thread........I know the author Juliet
Bawden's other series of embroidery and craft books so I expect her rug
book will have some really neat designs!
I've also seen the Lizzie Reaks Ragwork book......full of inspiration as
you say!
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

Lula , i found 2 books that might add to your `punch needle
experience` ....
Ragwork , by Lizzie Reaks, In the New Craft [serie] , Lorenz Books ,
1996.
Rag Rug Inspirations, new designs for traditional techniques, by
Julier Bawden , Cassel , 1996.
mirjam
O

Hi Lula

I agree, machines will never replace the artist!

I do needlework because I like to create and be doing something with
my hands at the same time, also something that will endure. Although
it is a lot of time consuming work, X-stitch is what I do to relax and
wind down from the day. Unfortunately, since moving, I am not back to
full swing in my evening stitching, other things have been taking
precidence, or my hands and arms are just to sore to lift them.

Over the past couple of weeks I have cleared part of a woods, and over
the past few days have installed over 600 feet of fencing. Floss
would stick to my hands like silk in a briar patch. So my needlework
has been untouched for the past few weeks again.

The reason I was looking into the punch needle embroidery kit was to
make something my mother spotted and liked, the finished and framed
piece was going to be a gift for her. But before I started that
project is when my sister got the embroidery machine and she more or
less beat me to the punch in making things for mom.

Like you, I prefer hand done pieces!

TTUL
Gary

WIP: The Old Mill at Pigeon Forge (still).

Lula, the reason you can't use a scroll frame is that the fabric has to be
drum-tight from all directions. With a scroll frame, you can't tighten the
fabric along the horizontal axis. Fabric tension is extremely important, .
Basically you tighten your fabric as tight as you can get it, than tighten
it some more. The goal is to open the weave of the fabric as much as
possible so that when you finish & remove the tension, the weave locks the
stitches in place.

You'll often hear (or read) incorrectly that punchneedle pieces need some
additional stabilization to keep the stitches in place. This is not
necessarily true, because done properly, punchneedle pieces are quite
stable, even through routine machine washings. However, you have to use the
right fabric (always woven), the right needle for the fabric thread count,
the right thread(s) for that needle, and very, very tight fabric tension.
Having said that, you may intentionally use a fabric, etc., that's not
right, in which case, you may need to stabilize. All in all, there's a lot
more to it than just threading a needle & punching holes.

It seems like punchneedle embroidery is one of those techniques that a lot
of people attempt, get frustrated with, and give up. I really believe they
may not have been properly instructed in the first place. If you're
teaching yourself, start with a sampler using fabrics of different thread
counts with each needle, and different threads in the needles, keeping track
of what's what. Although there's more to it than I can really go into,
here's a couple of things you'll want to try:
Test #1 - Make a right triangle by placing 10 stitches down, 10 stitches
across, and then connect the ends (to form the right triangle). Now pull
those stitches out. The holes in the fabric made by the stitches should
disappear with a little manipulation (I usually kind of scratch at the
surface). If they don't, the needle or thread(s) are too big for the
fabric.
Test #2 - If the fabric passes #1, stitch a small patch, no more than 1"x1".
You can move the needle either in concentric circles from the outside in or
in horizontal or vertical rows. Generally, you want to skip a couple of
threads each stitch. When you're done, flip to the front and check to see
if the fabric's buckled - if so, then your stitches are too close. Then
check to see if the fabric shows through the stitches - if so then your
stitches *may* be too far apart (this is fairly subjective).

HTH!
--
Jacqueline
Carmichaels PA
"lula" wrote in message
...
Jacqueline,

Is there a reason why your teacher Gail Bird didn't mention using a
scroll frame?
I understand the reason to using a 6" embroidery hoop limit if one is
doing small motifs.

As I plan to use my own illustrations for punch needle embroidery, I'd
like to have the option of working on a larger than 6" surface.
Stretching the fabric taut on a scroll frame would give me this larger
space to "paint" my ideas.

On the subject of hoops.......in my collection are several Japanese
style "hoops" that sound similar to Gail's hoops.

I haven't worked with these Japanese style hoops yet, (they're still in
their wrappers) these Japanese "hoops" are actually wooden frames.
A larger outside wooden frame with a slightly smaller wooden frame to
fit inside the larger.
One wraps strips of fabric around the edges of one of the frames to
tighten the wooden frames keep the stretched fabric taut for
embroidery......these frames are supposed to be excellent for delicate
work as the wrapped edges prevent any type of marks to delicate
embroideries.
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures

Jacqueline wrote:

"lula" wrote in message
...

[snipped]
So far, I've used the punch needle on one of the subtle monochromatic
color quilt cotton prints stretched into one of those fine German
hoops
that I have a whole set of......but don't think the larger hoops will
work that well overall for me as the stretched fabric will loosen up
being worked on and be harder to deal with on a larger hoop.


Lula, in the classes I took, we were taught to use a hoop no larger than
6".
Also, the instructor (Gail Bird) always uses a plastic hoop with a lip
on
the inner hoop, like Susan Bates hoops. She says it's the only type of
hoop
that will hold the fabric tightly enough.

--
Jacqueline
Carmichaels PA

Jacqueline,

Thank you so much for your more than helpful explanations on the use of
the punch needles! I'm saving this post for future reference.
Now I understand better what you're saying about the use of the punch
needles and the need for the ground fabric to be super taut on all
sides.

I'm also thinking about sewing the ground (project) fabric onto a larger
piece of "scrap" fabric and pulling the whole thing taut on a scroll
frame top to bottom as well as lacing the fabric tautly to the sides of
the scroll frame.....fortunately I have many sizes of scroll bars to
work with.

The Japanese type frames or "hoops" would be another option to keep all
four sides of the fabric taut for punch needle stitching.
Of course, there's also the obvious of limiting my design ideas to size
too!

So far, I've noted how the different strands of floss loops fit on the
quilting cotton fabric I was experimenting with......this type of high
thread count woven fabric seems to work well.
I've also tried working on two different types of heavy woven linen
which didn't work too well with the linen fabrics being a little too
loosely woven for this technique.

True, the appearance density of loops is overall subjective but I've
noticed the designs looked better with dense loops....at least in the
lovely samples I saw displayed in The Stitching Post needlework shop
where I purchased my needles.

There was a very interesting design of a sheep in a sampler that was
punch needled.......the lady who made this gave me some "tips" on how
she used the punch needle on fine linen similar to your advice.

You're absolutely right about the need to practice, practice on the
fabric or options one plans to use to get the best results!
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures

Jacqueline wrote:

Lula, the reason you can't use a scroll frame is that the fabric has to be
drum-tight from all directions. With a scroll frame, you can't tighten the
fabric along the horizontal axis. Fabric tension is extremely important, .
Basically you tighten your fabric as tight as you can get it, than tighten
it some more. The goal is to open the weave of the fabric as much as
possible so that when you finish & remove the tension, the weave locks the
stitches in place.

You'll often hear (or read) incorrectly that punchneedle pieces need some
additional stabilization to keep the stitches in place. This is not
necessarily true, because done properly, punchneedle pieces are quite
stable, even through routine machine washings. However, you have to use the
right fabric (always woven), the right needle for the fabric thread count,
the right thread(s) for that needle, and very, very tight fabric tension.
Having said that, you may intentionally use a fabric, etc., that's not
right, in which case, you may need to stabilize. All in all, there's a lot
more to it than just threading a needle & punching holes.

It seems like punchneedle embroidery is one of those techniques that a lot
of people attempt, get frustrated with, and give up. I really believe they
may not have been properly instructed in the first place. If you're
teaching yourself, start with a sampler using fabrics of different thread
counts with each needle, and different threads in the needles, keeping track
of what's what. Although there's more to it than I can really go into,
here's a couple of things you'll want to try:
Test #1 - Make a right triangle by placing 10 stitches down, 10 stitches
across, and then connect the ends (to form the right triangle). Now pull
those stitches out. The holes in the fabric made by the stitches should
disappear with a little manipulation (I usually kind of scratch at the
surface). If they don't, the needle or thread(s) are too big for the
fabric.
Test #2 - If the fabric passes #1, stitch a small patch, no more than 1"x1".
You can move the needle either in concentric circles from the outside in or
in horizontal or vertical rows. Generally, you want to skip a couple of
threads each stitch. When you're done, flip to the front and check to see
if the fabric's buckled - if so, then your stitches are too close. Then
check to see if the fabric shows through the stitches - if so then your
stitches *may* be too far apart (this is fairly subjective).

HTH!
--
Jacqueline
Carmichaels PA

Hi Lula,
Jumping in here. There is a firm in Uk who do punch embroidery.

It is http://www.websterscrafts.co.uk

a few years ago I did one of their pictures 16 x 12 inches.. I had it
hung on my workroom cupboard un-framed. It fell off and I have just
rescued it.
I will wash it and take a picture and send it too you.
Shirley








In message , lula
writes
Jacqueline,

Thank you so much for your more than helpful explanations on the use of
the punch needles! I'm saving this post for future reference.
Now I understand better what you're saying about the use of the punch
needles and the need for the ground fabric to be super taut on all
sides.

I'm also thinking about sewing the ground (project) fabric onto a larger
piece of "scrap" fabric and pulling the whole thing taut on a scroll
frame top to bottom as well as lacing the fabric tautly to the sides of
the scroll frame.....fortunately I have many sizes of scroll bars to
work with.

The Japanese type frames or "hoops" would be another option to keep all
four sides of the fabric taut for punch needle stitching.
Of course, there's also the obvious of limiting my design ideas to size
too!

So far, I've noted how the different strands of floss loops fit on the
quilting cotton fabric I was experimenting with......this type of high
thread count woven fabric seems to work well.
I've also tried working on two different types of heavy woven linen
which didn't work too well with the linen fabrics being a little too
loosely woven for this technique.

True, the appearance density of loops is overall subjective but I've
noticed the designs looked better with dense loops....at least in the
lovely samples I saw displayed in The Stitching Post needlework shop
where I purchased my needles.

There was a very interesting design of a sheep in a sampler that was
punch needled.......the lady who made this gave me some "tips" on how
she used the punch needle on fine linen similar to your advice.

You're absolutely right about the need to practice, practice on the
fabric or options one plans to use to get the best results!
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures

Jacqueline wrote:

Lula, the reason you can't use a scroll frame is that the fabric has to be
drum-tight from all directions. With a scroll frame, you can't tighten the
fabric along the horizontal axis. Fabric tension is extremely important, .
Basically you tighten your fabric as tight as you can get it, than tighten
it some more. The goal is to open the weave of the fabric as much as
possible so that when you finish & remove the tension, the weave locks the
stitches in place.

You'll often hear (or read) incorrectly that punchneedle pieces need some
additional stabilization to keep the stitches in place. This is not
necessarily true, because done properly, punchneedle pieces are quite
stable, even through routine machine washings. However, you have to use the
right fabric (always woven), the right needle for the fabric thread count,
the right thread(s) for that needle, and very, very tight fabric tension.
Having said that, you may intentionally use a fabric, etc., that's not
right, in which case, you may need to stabilize. All in all, there's a lot
more to it than just threading a needle & punching holes.

It seems like punchneedle embroidery is one of those techniques that a lot
of people attempt, get frustrated with, and give up. I really believe they
may not have been properly instructed in the first place. If you're
teaching yourself, start with a sampler using fabrics of different thread
counts with each needle, and different threads in the needles, keeping track
of what's what. Although there's more to it than I can really go into,
here's a couple of things you'll want to try:
Test #1 - Make a right triangle by placing 10 stitches down, 10 stitches
across, and then connect the ends (to form the right triangle). Now pull
those stitches out. The holes in the fabric made by the stitches should
disappear with a little manipulation (I usually kind of scratch at the
surface). If they don't, the needle or thread(s) are too big for the
fabric.
Test #2 - If the fabric passes #1, stitch a small patch, no more than 1"x1".
You can move the needle either in concentric circles from the outside in or
in horizontal or vertical rows. Generally, you want to skip a couple of
threads each stitch. When you're done, flip to the front and check to see
if the fabric's buckled - if so, then your stitches are too close. Then
check to see if the fabric shows through the stitches - if so then your
stitches *may* be too far apart (this is fairly subjective).

HTH!
--
Jacqueline
Carmichaels PA

--
Shirley Shone

Lula, something I forgot to mention: matching design size to the right
needle. Generally, the larger the design, the larger the needle you should
use. If you're working a large design, a 1-strand needle will take
*forever*. Conversely, a very small design done with a 6-strand needle
means that you're making very few stitches, which is quite limiting. Which
size needle is best for a given design size is something you'll figure out
when you stitch your samples.

I'm still a bit skeptical about the scroll frame (said with an
only-slightly-raised eyebrow :-)). However, I'm the last one who'd
discourage experimentation, so do what you like, and *please* let me know
how it works out. I guess I'm a stickler for knowing how to do things the
right way, but as long as you understand the reasoning behind a concept, no
harm in setting it aside :-) You may find that the stitches hold well
enough for a framed piece, but you just wouldn't want to put it on something
that gets more wear & tear. And above all, have fun!
--
Jacqueline
Carmichaels PA
"lula" wrote in message
...
Jacqueline,

Thank you so much for your more than helpful explanations on the use of
the punch needles! I'm saving this post for future reference.
Now I understand better what you're saying about the use of the punch
needles and the need for the ground fabric to be super taut on all
sides.

I'm also thinking about sewing the ground (project) fabric onto a larger
piece of "scrap" fabric and pulling the whole thing taut on a scroll
frame top to bottom as well as lacing the fabric tautly to the sides of
the scroll frame.....fortunately I have many sizes of scroll bars to
work with.

The Japanese type frames or "hoops" would be another option to keep all
four sides of the fabric taut for punch needle stitching.
Of course, there's also the obvious of limiting my design ideas to size
too!

So far, I've noted how the different strands of floss loops fit on the
quilting cotton fabric I was experimenting with......this type of high
thread count woven fabric seems to work well.
I've also tried working on two different types of heavy woven linen
which didn't work too well with the linen fabrics being a little too
loosely woven for this technique.

True, the appearance density of loops is overall subjective but I've
noticed the designs looked better with dense loops....at least in the
lovely samples I saw displayed in The Stitching Post needlework shop
where I purchased my needles.

There was a very interesting design of a sheep in a sampler that was
punch needled.......the lady who made this gave me some "tips" on how
she used the punch needle on fine linen similar to your advice.

You're absolutely right about the need to practice, practice on the
fabric or options one plans to use to get the best results!
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures

Jacqueline wrote:

Lula, the reason you can't use a scroll frame is that the fabric has to
be
drum-tight from all directions. With a scroll frame, you can't tighten
the
fabric along the horizontal axis. Fabric tension is extremely
important, .
Basically you tighten your fabric as tight as you can get it, than
tighten
it some more. The goal is to open the weave of the fabric as much as
possible so that when you finish & remove the tension, the weave locks
the
stitches in place.

You'll often hear (or read) incorrectly that punchneedle pieces need
some
additional stabilization to keep the stitches in place. This is not
necessarily true, because done properly, punchneedle pieces are quite
stable, even through routine machine washings. However, you have to use
the
right fabric (always woven), the right needle for the fabric thread
count,
the right thread(s) for that needle, and very, very tight fabric
tension.
Having said that, you may intentionally use a fabric, etc., that's not
right, in which case, you may need to stabilize. All in all, there's a
lot
more to it than just threading a needle & punching holes.

It seems like punchneedle embroidery is one of those techniques that a
lot
of people attempt, get frustrated with, and give up. I really believe
they
may not have been properly instructed in the first place. If you're
teaching yourself, start with a sampler using fabrics of different
thread
counts with each needle, and different threads in the needles, keeping
track
of what's what. Although there's more to it than I can really go into,
here's a couple of things you'll want to try:
Test #1 - Make a right triangle by placing 10 stitches down, 10 stitches
across, and then connect the ends (to form the right triangle). Now
pull
those stitches out. The holes in the fabric made by the stitches should
disappear with a little manipulation (I usually kind of scratch at the
surface). If they don't, the needle or thread(s) are too big for the
fabric.
Test #2 - If the fabric passes #1, stitch a small patch, no more than
1"x1".
You can move the needle either in concentric circles from the outside in
or
in horizontal or vertical rows. Generally, you want to skip a couple of
threads each stitch. When you're done, flip to the front and check to
see
if the fabric's buckled - if so, then your stitches are too close. Then
check to see if the fabric shows through the stitches - if so then your
stitches *may* be too far apart (this is fairly subjective).

HTH!
--
Jacqueline
Carmichaels PA

lula said
It's wonderful to read that you're going to give punch needle a try!

Even though I use colo(u)rs with abandon, I've been getting a bit bored because
there's too much of a 'sameness' to the look I'm able to produce. My current
project is another transformed from x-stich Alma Lynn design, Summer Angel. I'm
doing it on a ground with a sand and seashell pattern and have been waffling
about using tarpunto (small areas stuffed) to make parts pop off the 'canvas'.

If I think the results are frame-worthy, I've got a frame I want to use. I
don't know the term for a deep recessed area but think shadow box effect.
Instead of using those doohickies that are attached to the inner surface and
are bent to anchor the backing close to the glass, I'm thinking about putting
the stitching on a backboard that's big enough to cover the exterior of the
frame and then nailing it to the frame which would create a not so shallow
shadow box. I could then include a pile of real shells or miniature beach toys.
I'm also thinking of covering the plain black frame with fabric.

Wish me luck because, as is often the case, I find that the finished results
look too amateurish so they end in the scrap pile.

--
another Anne, add ingers to frugalf to reply

Jacqueline wrote:

"lula" wrote in message
...

[snipped]
So far, I've used the punch needle on one of the subtle monochromatic
color quilt cotton prints stretched into one of those fine German hoops
that I have a whole set of......but don't think the larger hoops will
work that well overall for me as the stretched fabric will loosen up
being worked on and be harder to deal with on a larger hoop.


Lula, in the classes I took, we were taught to use a hoop no larger than 6".
Also, the instructor (Gail Bird) always uses a plastic hoop with a lip on
the inner hoop, like Susan Bates hoops. She says it's the only type of hoop
that will hold the fabric tightly enough.


Interesting, in my class, we also used the Susan Bates hoop - because of the
lip and that you could really tighten it soooo tight - but we got to use the 7"
size. For the smaller pieces - like the little brooch, or tiny cc size purse,
she suggested a 4" hoop. My friend Ellen, who taught the class, has some
designs out that at least the LNS are stocking - the brooch Lula saw someone
wearing at Stitchin' Post sounds like one of hers. I know that she was at
Nashvill last year. And now - like an idiot - I'm forgetting the name she puts
on her designs. Darn. Overload. Anyhow, her stuff is pretty clever, cute
without being tooo cutesy. Last winter she had a nice Snowman brooch, and the
little, teeny purses are awesome.

It's just such a fun thing.

Ellice

Hi Anne,

I love your enthusiasm and search for more exciting projects......you're
a lady after my own heart!

Reading the descriptions of your ideas sounds good to me.....you have to
do what you have to do in order to satisfy your creative
urges......start your project and "run" with it! Enjoy the creative
process.....

I mean this sincerely.....I'm one of your "fans".....love to see people
take (creative) chances with their work! That's pretty much what I
do.....for me designing is a real adventure full of interesting
possibilities!
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures

anne wrote:

lula said
It's wonderful to read that you're going to give punch needle a try!

Even though I use colo(u)rs with abandon, I've been getting a bit bored because
there's too much of a 'sameness' to the look I'm able to produce. My current
project is another transformed from x-stich Alma Lynn design, Summer Angel. I'm
doing it on a ground with a sand and seashell pattern and have been waffling
about using tarpunto (small areas stuffed) to make parts pop off the 'canvas'.

If I think the results are frame-worthy, I've got a frame I want to use. I
don't know the term for a deep recessed area but think shadow box effect.
Instead of using those doohickies that are attached to the inner surface and
are bent to anchor the backing close to the glass, I'm thinking about putting
the stitching on a backboard that's big enough to cover the exterior of the
frame and then nailing it to the frame which would create a not so shallow
shadow box. I could then include a pile of real shells or miniature beach toys.
I'm also thinking of covering the plain black frame with fabric.

Wish me luck because, as is often the case, I find that the finished results
look too amateurish so they end in the scrap pile.

--
another Anne, add ingers to frugalf to reply

Hello Shirley,

Nice to "see" you again......I'll take a look at this URL next.

Please do send me a pic of your punch needle piece......sounds an
impressive size for punch needle embroidery!
I didn't have such a large design in mind for myself but so glad to know
that such a large piece can be done!

Having see many beautiful samples of the fine workmanship you've
stitched in your lovely beadwork, it'll be a treat to see your
impressive sized punch needle embroidery!
---
Lula
http://www.woolydream.com
Needlework Adventures

Shirley Shone wrote:

Hi Lula,
Jumping in here. There is a firm in Uk who do punch embroidery.

It is http://www.websterscrafts.co.uk

a few years ago I did one of their pictures 16 x 12 inches.. I had it
hung on my workroom cupboard un-framed. It fell off and I have just
rescued it.
I will wash it and take a picture and send it too you.
Shirley