Weird lip when pulling up

Hi folks :-)

Being just a beginner when it comes to turning, I need to get rid of bad
habits before they lock on. One that I have notice now is that I somehow
pull some of the clay too far up, so that I get an extra loose lip at the
top. My only guess is that I was turning with long fingernails - could that
be it, or am I causing it some other way?

Any other tips on bad habits best left behind would also be very welcome!

Marianne

"Bubbles" wrote in message
...
Hi folks :-)

Being just a beginner when it comes to turning, I need to get rid of bad
habits before they lock on. One that I have notice now is that I somehow
pull some of the clay too far up, so that I get an extra loose lip at the
top. My only guess is that I was turning with long fingernails - could
that
be it, or am I causing it some other way?

Any other tips on bad habits best left behind would also be very welcome!

Marianne


Every time you lift, compact the rim before you lift again.

To annmarie's excellent advice I might add:

While pulling, if you are using your fingertips,
stop right there.
Use the "side" of your finger instead, as in
that part on the side of your index finger between
the first and middle knuckle, both inside and outside
the pot. Results in a smoother pull also, gives you
more control over the pressure you exert as well
(more sensitive). Just try to keep those finger sides parallel
to each other as you pull up. And lock your thumbs
together!

Don't pull too much at once, that results in too thin
a lip at the top ,which also causes "the wobbles".
Instructors can say what they want about "three pulls
and you're done"...I've found that to be horse manure.
If four or five pulls is what you need, go for it. It's
YOUR technique you're trying to establish.
Nuance can come later, and the number of pulls you
use will decrease with experience.
Go for it, and good luck!

--
Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)

"annemarie" wrote in message
...

"Bubbles" wrote in message
...
Hi folks :-)

Being just a beginner when it comes to turning, I need to get rid of bad
habits before they lock on. One that I have notice now is that I somehow
pull some of the clay too far up, so that I get an extra loose lip at
the
top. My only guess is that I was turning with long fingernails - could
that
be it, or am I causing it some other way?

Any other tips on bad habits best left behind would also be very
welcome!

Marianne


Every time you lift, compact the rim before you lift again.

"wayneinkeywest" wrote in message ...
To annmarie's excellent advice I might add:

While pulling, if you are using your fingertips,
stop right there.
Use the "side" of your finger instead, as in
that part on the side of your index finger between
the first and middle knuckle, both inside and outside
the pot. Results in a smoother pull also, gives you
more control over the pressure you exert as well
(more sensitive). Just try to keep those finger sides parallel
to each other as you pull up. And lock your thumbs
together!

Don't pull too much at once, that results in too thin
a lip at the top ,which also causes "the wobbles".
Instructors can say what they want about "three pulls
and you're done"...I've found that to be horse manure.
If four or five pulls is what you need, go for it. It's
YOUR technique you're trying to establish.
Nuance can come later, and the number of pulls you
use will decrease with experience.
Go for it, and good luck!

--
Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.45W, Longitude 24.33N
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)

"annemarie" wrote in message
...

"Bubbles" wrote in message
...
Hi folks :-)

Being just a beginner when it comes to turning, I need to get rid of bad
habits before they lock on. One that I have notice now is that I somehow
pull some of the clay too far up, so that I get an extra loose lip at
the
top. My only guess is that I was turning with long fingernails - could
that
be it, or am I causing it some other way?

Any other tips on bad habits best left behind would also be very
welcome!

Marianne


Every time you lift, compact the rim before you lift again.

I like to pull almost to the top with even pressure but when I get
almost to the rim, I ease way up on the pressure because depending on
what I'm making I usually like a thicker rim especially for bowls
because as you rib out your bowls your thick rims will automatically
will be thinned enough. It also gives you a little "play" with a
thick rim. But not for mugs. You don't want thick rims on mugs, just
medium. Also, like someone said, compress your rim after each pull,
that also helps to keep things under control and I like to use a small
piece of chamoie (I know it's misspelled) to smooth and compress the
rim. About long fingernails-I found they get in the way. If I need to
make a galley for a lidded pot, I use a popsicle stick or some other
wooden tool. I clip my nails as close as I can at least once a week.
Sandi

"annemarie" wrote in message
...


Every time you lift, compact the rim before you lift again.

Its not the rim, it is as if I am bringing a roll of clay up with me.

Marianne

"wayneinkeywest" wrote in message
. ..
To annmarie's excellent advice I might add:

While pulling, if you are using your fingertips,
stop right there.
Use the "side" of your finger instead, as in
that part on the side of your index finger between
the first and middle knuckle, both inside and outside
the pot. Results in a smoother pull also, gives you
more control over the pressure you exert as well
(more sensitive). Just try to keep those finger sides parallel
to each other as you pull up. And lock your thumbs
together!

I turn as dry as possible and find that I get too much friction if I don't
use just the tips of my fingers. I do lock my hands together as soon as it
is possible without damaging the lip of the work.

Don't pull too much at once, that results in too thin
a lip at the top ,which also causes "the wobbles".

Had them! Good to know what does it. Some books have a bit about what you
have done wrong, but if you know of one book called something like
"everything you can do wrong while turning, and how to avoid it" - let me
know :-)

Instructors can say what they want about "three pulls
and you're done"...I've found that to be horse manure.

Thanks!

If four or five pulls is what you need, go for it. It's
YOUR technique you're trying to establish.
Nuance can come later, and the number of pulls you
use will decrease with experience.
Go for it, and good luck!

Thanks so much for your input!

Marianne

This sounds as if you have cut into the bottom of the clay that is next to
the wheel and have 'rolled' up some separated clay. If I remember
correctly, you had stated that you have long nails. I would try using a
sponge to throw with on the outside. Just use a small sponge held in your
hand, push in on the bottom so that you have firm contact with the body
where the 'foot' of the piece will be (that is below the floor of you
piece). On the inside you are going to push out til you have a nice bump
that sits over the pushed in outer edge. Have you hands locked and 'ride'
this S shape up the side of the pot with the pressure decreasing as you feel
the pull becoming 'softer'. For my first pull of the sides I do NOT form
this S shape. Instead I basically am compressing the sides and making a
uniform thickness from bottom to top.


"Bubbles" wrote in message
...

"annemarie" wrote in message
...


Every time you lift, compact the rim before you lift again.

Its not the rim, it is as if I am bringing a roll of clay up with me.

Marianne

"Bubbles" wrote in message
...

"annemarie" wrote in message
...


Every time you lift, compact the rim before you lift again.

Its not the rim, it is as if I am bringing a roll of clay up with me.

Marianne


Yeah you should be bringing a roll of clay with you, so difficult to explain
without demonstrating!
Even careful lifting and compacting of the rim every time is important.
Now turning is using tools to finish a pot off when leather hard, usually
upside down.
Throwing is the centring and lifting of soft clay. You should keep the clay
well lubricated, not with clean water though, with slip (water with plenty
of clay in it) This seals the surface of the clay so that the clay body
does not get substantially wetter. If you use clean water the clay quickly
absorbs it and then becomes too wet to be easy to work. You do need to
throw with it well lubricated though or you can end up with problems. This
could actually be you problem. Difficult to know without seeing you
working.

"annemarie" wrote in message
...

"Bubbles" wrote in message
...

Its not the rim, it is as if I am bringing a roll of clay up with me.

Marianne


Yeah you should be bringing a roll of clay with you, so difficult to
explain
without demonstrating!
Even careful lifting and compacting of the rim every time is important.
Now turning is using tools to finish a pot off when leather hard, usually
upside down.
Throwing is the centring and lifting of soft clay. You should keep the
clay
well lubricated, not with clean water though, with slip (water with plenty
of clay in it) This seals the surface of the clay so that the clay body
does not get substantially wetter. If you use clean water the clay
quickly
absorbs it and then becomes too wet to be easy to work. You do need to
throw with it well lubricated though or you can end up with problems.
This
could actually be you problem. Difficult to know without seeing you
working.

Hi AnneMarie :-)

Well - I am bringing too much of a roll with me - so much so, that it
loosens from the rim when I get that high. I am NOT putting too much
pressure on, though

MY BAD!!! I meant when I was throwing. It gets a bit confusing when I
usually talk about all this in Swiss German! Hehe!

I mostly don't use clean water - I try to retrieve the water that has "slid
out" onto the wheel. I found this technique mostly by myself. My first
teacher taught me to use way too much water. My present teacher turns dry
(as soon as the piece is centered) and I find that more or less impossible -
not when I spend so much time on "perfecting" the piece.

So slip seals the clay! Very interesting and something I haven't read in any
of my books! But I am very proud of my "gathering dish" under my wheel -
there are just a few splatters in it even after turning several pieces.
Thanks for confirming that this is a GOOD habit I am having here! :-)

I do find, though, that I tend to "rub" the lubrication off as I am pulling,
so that I get too much friction against the piece - could that be because I
am pressing too hard? If I don't, it will take me 20 pulls to get the piece
the height I want it! Or should I make the bottom wall thinner before I
start pulling up?

Thanks for your advice! It really is great to be able to ask these questions
when I have them!

Marianne

On 7/12/04 6:23 PM, Bubbles wrote:
"annemarie" wrote in message
...

"Bubbles" wrote in message
...



I do find, though, that I tend to "rub" the lubrication off as I am pulling,
so that I get too much friction against the piece - could that be because I
am pressing too hard?
Keep your hands lubricated by wiping against each other often. Also,
keep the back of the inside hand lubricated and sometimes the arm above
it. A dry hand or arm can grab the inside of the pot an twist it.

If I don't, it will take me 20 pulls to get the piece
the height I want it! Or should I make the bottom wall thinner before I
start pulling up?
No, do not make the wall at the bottom thinner before pulling up. Try to
keep the walls the same thickness all the way up for the first few
pulls. Then thin the wall a small amount for the top third, then the
middle third and then reach down to the bottom third. This keeps the
strength of the wall below the part that you are thinning. If you thin
the bottom first and then the top the bottom will twist and ripple.

A practice exercise: start with 5lb (1.86kg) of stoneware clay and pull
a cylinder in which your hand fits easily. At first you will be able to
get to a height of 10in (25cm) without much of a problem. But your goal
is to get to 12in (30cm). You can only do this if you have even walls
the whole way up. The lesson is control not speed.

Good luck - enjoy
Gene