A few things that are weighing on my mind regarding the group.

I've been rather scarce on the group as I've been moving house. I've caught
up with reading and a have a couple of things I want to say.

The bead notes were a tangible, generous and positive outcome of this group,
the likes of which I've not seen anywhere else. I was proud to have my
comments published there, attributed or not. I can fully understand why it's
been taken down and do not for one instant challenge this decision. Why
should they remain if they are to become a target for unidentified bullies
and conjecture as to their legality? This valuable resource is lost to
future artists and hobbyists. No one profited by them. Their publication was
a wholly generous act on the part of Sooz for the gigantic task of compiling
them when I know from first hand experience how limited her physical engergy
is and Kandice for hosting them at her own personal expense; bandwidth is
not free and this was a huge document. For my part I will feel grateful
for the time and opportunity I had to enjoy them and I support Kandice and
Sooz in the decision to remove them.

I had no idea that a there was an 'invitation only' challenge going on
behind the scenes until I read it in the thread today. I feel hurt by those
who orchestrated this. I'd very much like to know what the reasons are for
barring some, after all am I not a member in good standing of rcb at this
point? I'm quite certain I am not the only person to feel this way. Since
when do we exclude others from such events? It's shameful as well as
exclusionary and I'm very sorry that I had to find out about it at all - I
wish I was still in ignorance.

I'd like to see this group continue to be of relevance to beaders. Every
organisation needs to stop and take stock of their aims and objectives from
time to time. Perhaps now would be a good time for rcb.
--
Marisa (AU/NZ)
http://www.galleryvittoria.com

Reply in line. Not directed at Marisa, just using her post as a jumping off
point.

"Marisa Cappetta" wrote in message
...
I've been rather scarce on the group as I've been moving house. I've
caught
up with reading and a have a couple of things I want to say.

The bead notes were a tangible, generous and positive outcome of this
group,
the likes of which I've not seen anywhere else. I was proud to have my
comments published there, attributed or not. I can fully understand why
it's
been taken down and do not for one instant challenge this decision. Why
should they remain if they are to become a target for unidentified
bullies
and conjecture as to their legality? This valuable resource is lost to
future artists and hobbyists. No one profited by them. Their publication
was
a wholly generous act on the part of Sooz for the gigantic task of
compiling
them when I know from first hand experience how limited her physical
engergy
is and Kandice for hosting them at her own personal expense; bandwidth is
not free and this was a huge document. For my part I will feel grateful
for the time and opportunity I had to enjoy them and I support Kandice and
Sooz in the decision to remove them.


I really don't have anything to say about the bead notes--them being up or
down, either way, I have no comment.


I had no idea that a there was an 'invitation only' challenge going on
behind the scenes until I read it in the thread today. I feel hurt by
those
who orchestrated this. I'd very much like to know what the reasons are
for
barring some, after all am I not a member in good standing of rcb at this
point? I'm quite certain I am not the only person to feel this way. Since
when do we exclude others from such events? It's shameful as well as
exclusionary and I'm very sorry that I had to find out about it at all -
I
wish I was still in ignorance.


This, however, I have plenty to say about. I was one of the people who
received this so called "invitation only" e-mail. I personally chose not to
participate because by that time, the whole idea of doing a beaded object of
any sort was not at all interesting to me. By the way, Stephanie, your
e-mail address shows up on that e-mail as a recipient. It may have gotten
stopped by aol's filters, but it was sent to you, dear.

That e-mail was far from exclusive, folks. I have just sat and re-read it
twice, and I see plainly where it was stated to (pass this e-mail along to
everyone you might think would like to participate.) It doesn't seem likely
to me that Diana would have the e-mail address for every single RCBer, and
so she asked (twice) in the e-mail that folks send it to others. I didn't
forward it as I wasn't interested in doing that type of project whatsoever.
Apparently, niether did the other people who got the e-mail, since I don't
see anyone jumping up to say "oh yeah, so and so forwarded that to me!"

As for Sooz not being included.....it also stated that if anyone thought
Sooz would be interested in participating, they were more than welcome to
ask her to do so. I'm sure that at that point, Diana saw that it might be a
sore point if she invited Sooz herself, and so she left it up to anyone else
who actually thought Sooz would want to participate. From what I can
gather..no one did. It was also stated that this second challenge was not
in any way to undermind Sooz's--the two were totally seperate from one
another, and Diana had the foresight to see that talking about a NON-PONY
challenge on the newsgroup was causing tension. So she took it off group.
Seems reasonable, and thoughtful, to me. (even though, upon googling, I
found that Sooz was offering prizes for whoever came up with an object to
bead..that whole voting thing, if you'll recall?

"Whoever comes up with the winning idea for the Painted Pony type
challenge we're thinking about doing will win a prize. Unless, of
course, it's me (I'm providing the prize).
~ Sooz
(guess we'll have to take a vote to determine who wins) "


My take on it is this. If anyone feels hurt by not getting that initial
e-mail...get over it. She did NOT have every single e-mail address. And it
was left wide open to be sent on to others, which obviously no one chose to
do. There was nothing more on the subject "passed around" after that
e-mail...the challenge had died. No one decided to do it. There is no
secret thing going on behind anyone's backs.



I see enough temper tantrums from my kids.
~Candace~

I respect that you have an opinion on this Candace. I respectfully ask that
you consider mine.

Despite your disclaimer that your comments were not directed at me I will
say that I am not in a temper, nor am I throwing any sort of tantrum. It's
an unworthy accusation levelled at people who may have been hurt, some of
whom may be too timid to voice their thoughts. I am experiencing genuine and
valid feelings of exclusion, which I am not simply going to 'get over' until
I have some sort of resolution; failing that, at least acknowledgement that
I have some genuine concerns about the group. This last, at least, many
would grant me given that several long standing members have left.

If someone felt unable or unwilling to invite another member of the group to
participate in a group activity, leaving it to chance that some other member
would do so is at best flawed communication, at worst, inherently devisive.
What ever the motive neither of these things sit well with me and I will not
sit idly by and allow it to happen unremarked upon.

If the challenge was intended for all rcb'ers, then the question of having
all the email addresses is irrelevant. Posting on rcb should suffice. If a
challenge is taken off group it's not intended for the whole group and to
suggest that it was done so to spare feelings is sophistry.

If a challenge is taken up by the group, wonderful, if not, so be it. Better
luck next time.
Marisa AU/NZ

The challenge I issued originally *was* on rcb. It flew like a lead balloon.
These things happen. I think the timing wasnt right, but it was still a cool
idea. I dont remember expressing interest in it Marissa, because if you had
it would have meant I would have known this was something you wanted to do.
I feel badly that *anyone* felt excluded. Its to bad it got mentioned on the
NG as being exclusionary. Its to bad it got mentioned at all. Now, it seems
no one is willing to believe it wasnt open to all.
Diana
PS. The challenge is still there. It isnt mine, nor has it ever been. It is
a challenge to yourself.. who ever you are.. to find something to embellish,
to have fun stretching your creative boundrys.
--
Weird people need beads, too
"Marisa Cappetta" wrote in message
...
I respect that you have an opinion on this Candace. I respectfully ask
that
you consider mine.

Despite your disclaimer that your comments were not directed at me I will
say that I am not in a temper, nor am I throwing any sort of tantrum. It's
an unworthy accusation levelled at people who may have been hurt, some of
whom may be too timid to voice their thoughts. I am experiencing genuine
and
valid feelings of exclusion, which I am not simply going to 'get over'
until
I have some sort of resolution; failing that, at least acknowledgement
that
I have some genuine concerns about the group. This last, at least, many
would grant me given that several long standing members have left.

If someone felt unable or unwilling to invite another member of the group
to
participate in a group activity, leaving it to chance that some other
member
would do so is at best flawed communication, at worst, inherently
devisive.
What ever the motive neither of these things sit well with me and I will
not
sit idly by and allow it to happen unremarked upon.

If the challenge was intended for all rcb'ers, then the question of having
all the email addresses is irrelevant. Posting on rcb should suffice. If a
challenge is taken off group it's not intended for the whole group and to
suggest that it was done so to spare feelings is sophistry.

If a challenge is taken up by the group, wonderful, if not, so be it.
Better
luck next time.
Marisa AU/NZ

I think the winter blahs have hit - we have the same type of stuff going on
in the kayaking group. Someone commented that the "recess" bell needed to
be rung so everyone could get back to their normal self.

Kathy K
"vj" wrote in message
...
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "~Candace~"
:

]I see enough temper tantrums from my kids.

SECONDED!

thanks, Candace. you said it all better than i could.


--
@vicki [SnuggleWench]
(Books) http://www.booksnbytes.com
(Jewelry) http://www.vickijean.com
(Metalsmithing) http://www.snugglewench.com
[it's a Callahan's thing]
yahooID: vjean95967
-----------
"Results! Why, man, I have gotten a lot of results.
I know several things that don't work." -- Thomas Edison

Thank you Diana. I didn't need to hear it second hand from anyone else. I
couldn't know your reasoning, I can't see your face or read your body
language. Therefore we go by the evidence we do have. Those of us not asked
felt left out, whether we expressed interest on the board or not, the
decision was made for us.

I think taking a challenge off group is indicative of a wider problem that
is emerging on rcb and one that I hope can be discussed and resolved. If
anyone feels the necessity to take an activity off group, it defeats the
purpose of the group.

I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with me. It certainly makes
me feel better and I hope it clears the air.
Marisa AU/NZ


"Diana Curtis" wrote in message
...
The challenge I issued originally *was* on rcb. It flew like a lead
balloon.
These things happen. I think the timing wasnt right, but it was still a
cool
idea. I dont remember expressing interest in it Marissa, because if you
had
it would have meant I would have known this was something you wanted to
do.
I feel badly that *anyone* felt excluded. Its to bad it got mentioned on
the
NG as being exclusionary. Its to bad it got mentioned at all. Now, it
seems
no one is willing to believe it wasnt open to all.
Diana
PS. The challenge is still there. It isnt mine, nor has it ever been. It
is
a challenge to yourself.. who ever you are.. to find something to
embellish,
to have fun stretching your creative boundrys.
--
Weird people need beads, too
"Marisa Cappetta" wrote in
message
...
I respect that you have an opinion on this Candace. I respectfully ask
that
you consider mine.

Despite your disclaimer that your comments were not directed at me I
will
say that I am not in a temper, nor am I throwing any sort of tantrum.
It's
an unworthy accusation levelled at people who may have been hurt, some
of
whom may be too timid to voice their thoughts. I am experiencing genuine
and
valid feelings of exclusion, which I am not simply going to 'get over'
until
I have some sort of resolution; failing that, at least acknowledgement
that
I have some genuine concerns about the group. This last, at least, many
would grant me given that several long standing members have left.

If someone felt unable or unwilling to invite another member of the
group
to
participate in a group activity, leaving it to chance that some other
member
would do so is at best flawed communication, at worst, inherently
devisive.
What ever the motive neither of these things sit well with me and I will
not
sit idly by and allow it to happen unremarked upon.

If the challenge was intended for all rcb'ers, then the question of
having
all the email addresses is irrelevant. Posting on rcb should suffice. If
a
challenge is taken off group it's not intended for the whole group and
to
suggest that it was done so to spare feelings is sophistry.

If a challenge is taken up by the group, wonderful, if not, so be it.
Better
luck next time.
Marisa AU/NZ

~Candace~ wrote:


I see enough temper tantrums from my kids.
~Candace~


I don't think that talking about what has been hurtful to some is a
temper tantrum. I think it's a good way for grownups to develop their
relationships, even in this format. I wasn't "invited" either, and
while I probably would not have had the time nor the confidence to
participate, it IS a little hurtful to be excluded. And yes, Candace, I
am "over" it. But still.



--
The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized
LC in Sunny So Cal
Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

I hope the air clears too.
I had many reasons for taking the challenge to private. The biggest one was
to avoid stepping on the officially announced challenge. I dont remember
right now if it was still being considered or not at that point, but it did
seem that to offer the challenge I did on the group might seem as tho I was
trying to take over the existing one. I was trying to gather up the people
who felt they couldnt or didnt want to participate in a challenge where
everyone started with the same blank object. I email a *very* few people
who are friends both in and out of RCB, not with the idea of leaving anyone
out, tho of course since my circle of friends is very small it was
inevitable there were people who didnt get an invitation directly from me.
It was encouraged that anyone who wanted to collect more people was more
than welcome to. The more the merrier! I still think that having everyone
embellish something that calls to them is an idea that rocks. Perhaps after
a time things will calm enough to consider it again.
I appreciate your willingness to listen, and discuss calmly.
Hugs
Diana


--
Weird people need beads, too
"Marisa Cappetta" wrote in message
...
Thank you Diana. I didn't need to hear it second hand from anyone else. I
couldn't know your reasoning, I can't see your face or read your body
language. Therefore we go by the evidence we do have. Those of us not
asked
felt left out, whether we expressed interest on the board or not, the
decision was made for us.

I think taking a challenge off group is indicative of a wider problem that
is emerging on rcb and one that I hope can be discussed and resolved. If
anyone feels the necessity to take an activity off group, it defeats the
purpose of the group.

I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with me. It certainly
makes
me feel better and I hope it clears the air.
Marisa AU/NZ

I think, had there been any interest from any of the people I did invite
that in time the invite would have been passed to you as well. I consider
you a friend, tho not an intimate one (yet?), and I just dont exclude
friends deliberately. But, please do remember that initially this challenge
was suggested to RCB in a post.
But.. in any case, even tho it wasnt my intention to hurt anyone, you and
others have expressed feeling hurt and left out, and for that I am truly
sorry. If it is within my power to heal the wounds, I shall.
Diana

--
Weird people need beads, too
"Fiddy" wrote in message
...
~Candace~ wrote:


I see enough temper tantrums from my kids.
~Candace~


I don't think that talking about what has been hurtful to some is a
temper tantrum. I think it's a good way for grownups to develop their
relationships, even in this format. I wasn't "invited" either, and
while I probably would not have had the time nor the confidence to
participate, it IS a little hurtful to be excluded. And yes, Candace, I
am "over" it. But still.



--
The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized
LC in Sunny So Cal
Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)

Diana Curtis wrote:

I think, had there been any interest from any of the people I did invite
that in time the invite would have been passed to you as well. I consider
you a friend, tho not an intimate one (yet?), and I just dont exclude
friends deliberately. But, please do remember that initially this challenge
was suggested to RCB in a post.
But.. in any case, even tho it wasnt my intention to hurt anyone, you and
others have expressed feeling hurt and left out, and for that I am truly
sorry. If it is within my power to heal the wounds, I shall.

and as I said to Candace, it was a "little" hurtful, only the part
about finding out that the project had been floated off list. Why would
it not be "on" list? I consider you a friend too, Diana, and I know you
didn't mean anything malicious. I'm not going to say that there are not
times when I email a list buddy "off list", but not to get a "private"
party going. More in terms of some sort of private conversation. And,
also as I mentioned before, I'm waaaay over it. I just didn't appreciate
being told that expressing an opinion on this matter was a "temper
tantrum". (And I won't patronize Candace by blaming her comment on
"hormones". She was outta line, imho, and I said so, and I'm over that
too...)

In lieu of some need for secrecy, such as a "hug" or "bfnr" for someone,
I prefer things to be on the n/g rather than in private email. Once a
project is "established", if the participants want to go to private
email for sake of not clogging up the n/g, I think that's a different
ballpark.

In any case, I'm not all worked up over this, but I do like to see
things more above board than not.

--
The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized
LC in Sunny So Cal
Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)