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Value of Rubies per karat



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 12th 08, 05:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
TXZZ
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Posts: 2
Default Value of Rubies per karat

YEah, I know this is a loaded question

Yes, I know that like all gems, karat value increases exponentially
with the size of the ruby, because large gems are the rarest

Yes, I know color and clarity etc. are important

Still, is there a basic table showing what the value of a ruby per
karat is?
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  #2  
Old July 14th 08, 02:05 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Heinrich Butschal[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Value of Rubies per karat

TXZZ schrieb:
YEah, I know this is a loaded question

Yes, I know that like all gems, karat value increases exponentially
with the size of the ruby, because large gems are the rarest

Yes, I know color and clarity etc. are important

Still, is there a basic table showing what the value of a ruby per
karat is?


This is impossible, especially for there are offers in ebay witch have values
less than 2 US dollars per carat.

Mit freundlichem Gruß,
Heinrich Butschal
--
Schmuck Gutachter und Schmuckverkauf http://www.butschal.de
Schmuck nach Maß anfertigen http://www.meister-atelier.de
Firmengeschenke und Ehrennadeln http://www.goldschmiede-meister.com
Schmuckmanufaktur http://www.schmuckfabrik.de
Schmuck gut verkaufen und günstig kaufen http://www.schmuck-boerse.com
  #3  
Old July 14th 08, 06:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
m4816k
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Value of Rubies per karat

"TXZZ" wrote in message
...
YEah, I know this is a loaded question

Yes, I know that like all gems, karat value increases exponentially
with the size of the ruby, because large gems are the rarest

Yes, I know color and clarity etc. are important

Still, is there a basic table showing what the value of a ruby per
karat is?


Narrow down all these possibilities and someone might come up with an
answer. I only know that top of the line 1 ct untreated Burmese ruby goes
for something like 30.000$. But why pay that much when you can get "the best
quality ruby" for under 100$ on just about any tv shopping channel ;-)


  #4  
Old July 14th 08, 04:50 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Abrasha
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Posts: 298
Default Value of Rubies per karat

TXZZ wrote:
YEah, I know this is a loaded question

Yes, I know that like all gems, karat value increases exponentially
with the size of the ruby, because large gems are the rarest

Yes, I know color and clarity etc. are important

Still, is there a basic table showing what the value of a ruby per
karat is?


No

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
  #5  
Old July 15th 08, 04:27 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
gruhn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Value of Rubies per karat

When people answer you "no" they are telling you that when they go to
the dealer they roll some dice and pay whatever comes up; that they
just sort of guess; that the price is based on whether or not they've
gotten this week's groceries; that nobody ever looks a dealer in the
eye and says "$10,000 for that?! You're on crack." You can bet that
people who actually buy rubies know exactly how much rubies cost.

And you even had the good grace to ask for a table rather than demand
a single number. Come on folks, if you are so smart give the guy a
range. He knows the dangers and you know how the market really runs
and you know what the prices really are and you know that there really
is an answer.

Happens all over the place. Self-important geeks privy to specialized
knowledge incapable of answering a question because they get confused/
proud by/of the details. Pah.
  #6  
Old July 15th 08, 05:00 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Value of Rubies per karat

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:27:06 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry gruhn
wrote:

Gruhn,

you're not very familiar with the gem markets, are you? At least, that's what
your post suggests.


When people answer you "no" they are telling you that when they go to
the dealer they roll some dice and pay whatever comes up; that they
just sort of guess; that the price is based on whether or not they've
gotten this week's groceries; that nobody ever looks a dealer in the
eye and says "$10,000 for that?! You're on crack." You can bet that
people who actually buy rubies know exactly how much rubies cost.


See, the thing is, this particular question is WAY too broad. it's roughly the
same as asking for a simple chart that shows what a car costs, without detailing
whether used or new, how good condition, what brand and model, in which country,
etc etc. There ARE lists that will show at least a subset of "cars". Generally,
you pay for it, as a full book sized document, not a "chart", and it has many
many entries.

Or how about this one. Give me a chart so I'll know how much I have to pay for
a painting. A good one, of course. See what I mean? Am I talking about a
decorative thing from some painting mill in china selling mostly to motels, or
do I want to go to an art dealer and buy a quality piece of artwork off the
walls, or do I want to go to a Soothby's auction to bid on a one of a kind rare
Picasso? There's no chart for any of these broad levels, though you can come
closest with the junk stuff. Finer art, like finer rubies, varies much much
more, often with seemingly minor differences. And the really finest stones
often DO get sold only at acution, or via similarly exclusive sales, and like
the Picasso auctions, the final prices can be hard for even experts to predict.

In the case of rubies, it's a bit more limited. But I can show you some rubies
that cost next to nothing, and others that cost tens of thousands per karat.
Ruby can be junk, or it can be one of the most expensive gems in the world, all
depending on subtle differences in a wide number of characteristics. Unlike
diamonds, which are enough of a commodity that you can, actually, put together a
chart showing current market prices, rubies are often rare enough that different
dealers really will have quite a range of pricing for essentially the same
qualities. When we go shopping, we may know what we'd like to pay, and what we
paid last time, but we seldom end up actually paying those expected prices.
Instead, according to variances in supply and demand, what's available, who's
got what we need, and how badly/soon we need it, we might end up paying quite a
range of different prices. This isn't shooting dice, nor on chance, or whether
we've bought groceries or whatever other silly choices you think applies. It's
the reality of the market in a rare and often difficult to find material. Of
course, in the junk qualities, or in small tiny stones, supply is much more
uniform. And one can, of one knows the whole market, come up with an expected
value for any single stone. That's called an appraisal, and I assure you,
people who do it well are not just looking at some simple chart. There are, of
course, price guides published. They're not public domain, and not cheap.
Updated fairly frequently, they're also not simple charts. Usually multi page
things, and to use them with any semblance of accuracy requires the user to
actually understand the systems used to grade gemstones. Again, it's much
trickier than the diamond market, which is almost a commodities market it's so
uniform.

If there WERE a decent chart available on the web somewhere as a public domain
listing anyone could go look at, any number of those who'm you've called self
important geeks (a label that pretty much assures me that you yourself don't
know the answer to this question, and have foolishly and incorrectly assumed it
was simple and being withheld for some reason) would have happily given the OP
that link. I, at least, no of no such chart or site anywhere on the web. You
can, of course, go to any decent online gem dealer and look at what they've
offered, and after comparing the listings, come up with some idea of what costs
what. But after looking at all that, you'll find that while you've got a range
of prices in your head, you won't have an accurate idea of why some are more
than others. The differences in color between a five thousand dollar per karat
stone and a twenty thousand dollar per carat stone can be quite difficult to
show even when on the same web site, yet in person, you could see it. For
comparison, try to tell, visually, the difference in color between a G color
diamond and an H color, from photos on the web. You can't do it. Yet any
decent diamond grader can do it quickly in person. Rubies are harder to grade
than diamonds, any day.

Now, if the OP wants to PAY for such information, I'd suggest a subscription to
Gemworld Price Guide. Richard Drucker has been publishing that fine resource on
gem pricing, including diamonds, for years, and it's perhaps the most
comprehensive and useful of the gem price guides around. It explains grading
terms and differences, and gives useful price ranges for a set of quality
ranges. Still not precise price listings, but it gives trained gemologists and
appraisers a framework within to work, allowing them to track the market, and
when needed, arrive at a reasonable estimate of a gems value. The annual
subscription to Gemworld Price Guide, which is a fully copyrighted document, is
a bargain for several hundred dollars a year.


And you even had the good grace to ask for a table rather than demand
a single number. Come on folks, if you are so smart give the guy a
range.


OK. One carat rubies go for anywhere between about 2 dollars a carat, to
perhaps 20 thousand dollars per carat in the qualities one might have a
reasonable chance of finding within a reasonable time frame. Exceptionally
rare stones are pretty much priced individually depending on how bad someone
wants them on those rare occasions when they become available, so they're pretty
hard to predict.

How's that. Useful to you?

I kind of didn't think so. Yet without much much more detailed information
about the quality desired, that's about as close as you can get. It really does
vary by that much.

He knows the dangers and you know how the market really runs
and you know what the prices really are and you know that there really
is an answer.


The point is there are far too many answers, and it's too variable to be useful
in the form he wants. If he wants to post a request for a specific gem,
listing it's GIA or AGL color description, clarity description, origin, type of
treatments if any, shape and cut as well as cutting quality, well, then I'm
guessing someone might be able to give him a reasonably useful RANGE of prices
such a stone might fall into. Even with that detailed and precise grade info,
there still will not be just one price, nor even, in many cases, all that narrow
a range.


Happens all over the place. Self-important geeks privy to specialized
knowledge incapable of answering a question because they get confused/
proud by/of the details. Pah.


And it happens also in newsgroups, where a newbie comes onto the group thinking
he/she knows all the answers to an obviously simplistic topic, and makes all the
wrong assumptions about the topic, and the group.

Trust me dude, if there were a decent and simple chart I knew of (and though I
don't know it all, I might well have a good idea of there was one, and I spent a
few minutes looking for the obvious places.), I and others would have sent the
OP there. To actually type in such a chart would take me hours of research
first, and then probably a good deal more typing that this little ditty if the
chart were to be actually useful. Guess what. I do a lot for free, but that's
more than I've got time for without being paid for the research...

Pah, indeed.

Peter Rowe
moderator
rec.crafts.jewelry
  #7  
Old July 15th 08, 05:02 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Heinrich Butschal[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Value of Rubies per karat


gruhn schrieb:
When people answer you "no" they are telling you that when they go to
the dealer they roll some dice and pay whatever comes up; that they
just sort of guess; that the price is based on whether or not they've
gotten this week's groceries; that nobody ever looks a dealer in the
eye and says "$10,000 for that?! You're on crack." You can bet that
people who actually buy rubies know exactly how much rubies cost.

And you even had the good grace to ask for a table rather than demand
a single number. Come on folks, if you are so smart give the guy a
range. He knows the dangers and you know how the market really runs
and you know what the prices really are and you know that there really
is an answer.

Happens all over the place. Self-important geeks privy to specialized
knowledge incapable of answering a question because they get confused/
proud by/of the details. Pah.


Or they want to say that for this question:

Still, is there a basic table showing what the value of a ruby per
karat is?


the correct answer is: "No"


Mit freundlichem Gruß,
Heinrich Butschal
--
Schmuck Gutachter und Schmuckverkauf http://www.butschal.de
Schmuck nach Maß anfertigen http://www.meister-atelier.de
Firmengeschenke und Ehrennadeln http://www.goldschmiede-meister.com
Schmuckmanufaktur http://www.schmuckfabrik.de
Schmuck gut verkaufen und günstig kaufen http://www.schmuck-boerse.com
  #8  
Old July 15th 08, 06:17 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Value of Rubies per karat

gruhn wrote:

When people answer you "no" they are telling you that when they go to
the dealer they roll some dice and pay whatever comes up; that they
just sort of guess; that the price is based on whether or not they've
gotten this week's groceries; that nobody ever looks a dealer in the
eye and says "$10,000 for that?! You're on crack." You can bet that
people who actually buy rubies know exactly how much rubies cost.

And you even had the good grace to ask for a table rather than demand
a single number. Come on folks, if you are so smart give the guy a
range. He knows the dangers and you know how the market really runs
and you know what the prices really are and you know that there really
is an answer.

Happens all over the place. Self-important geeks privy to specialized
knowledge incapable of answering a question because they get confused/
proud by/of the details. Pah.



OK - take a look at the sample chart here;
http://www.gemsociety.org/priceg.htm

BUT - please pay close attention to all the 'caveats' in the header.
Now, look at the entry for Alexandrite. Ruby will likely be available in
more sizes BUT with a greater price range.

Just as explained by others here.



Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
  #9  
Old July 15th 08, 06:19 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Value of Rubies per karat

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:17:00 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Carl 1 Lucky Texan
wrote:


OK - take a look at the sample chart here;
http://www.gemsociety.org/priceg.htm

BUT - please pay close attention to all the 'caveats' in the header.
Now, look at the entry for Alexandrite. Ruby will likely be available in
more sizes BUT with a greater price range.

Just as explained by others here.


Thanks to Carl, for a good and useful reference.

As he points out, it's so general in nature to be of little use in any real
pricing need, other than to give you some idea of the range of prices. Not much
use for actually figuring out what a given stone might cost you.

Plus, as I pointed out regarding such info, even with IGS, an organization which
says it's there to provide gemological info to everyone who wants it, the full
chart, including the ruby listings, are only available after you fork over your
fifty bucks...

Peter
  #10  
Old July 16th 08, 02:46 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Value of Rubies per karat

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:00:46 -0700, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
discovered a keyboard and, for our
edification and amusement, submitted

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:27:06 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry gruhn
wrote:

Gruhn,

you're not very familiar with the gem markets, are you? At least, that's what
your post suggests.


A well thought-out and rather definitive reply, Peter - and that's a
mark of a good moderator (and you did it without being at all
vituperative!)
Blessed be, for sure...
 




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