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#21
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:14:24 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote: It's just my restless mind postulating and pondering. If I had ten million dollars and could start a needlework school, what would it be like? What would be the curriculum and how would you separate it to a coherent whole? Time is not of concern in this imaginary school. Nor is age. One could start at 7 or 77. So often the term needlework is used in a narrow sense. My sense is that, although a technique can be called needlework, and you can master a single technique, that to be truly a "master needleworker" (and I don't qualify for the status), you should be well-versed in all the disciplines. Not a master at all of them, just well-versed. "Well versed" can mean different levels of ability to different people. Could you define well-versed. Would it be that you can stitch everything passably well (you can make something useful and fairly pretty, something you wouldn't be ashamed of showing to others), but not perfectly stitched? Sort of a "jack of all trades" level in needlework? Or are you thinking of a higher level? I'm noticing some of the responses are what I imagined they'd be: stuck in a single mindset. Which is why I've been putting off the discussion because I didn't want to offend, and I know how some of you look at this. It's an imaginary playworld - if you could have all the time in the world - no obstacles - and you could pursue your dream. That's all. I am also imagining we magically get perfect sight so the finer work is made easier to see. (I don't think I could do darning without better sight than I have.) Oh, and hands, wrists, and elbows that are not in too much pain to stitch. If I'm going to dream it may as well be really good. I do agree that there needs to be a stopping off point to pursue a "chosen love" technique, such as canvas. I had it in the text at one point, but took it out because it created "other" problems on down the road. I didn't quite know how to "stop". g I understand the learning many forms thing completely. After all, how does one choose the most fun needlework if one doesn't dabble in many forms first? How would you choose a new technique when your long loved technique becomes boring or too difficult due to vision or hand movement problems unless you have dabbled? There's already guilds for certain disciplines such as canvas embroidery, knitting, crochet, lace. I ripped some of the criteria from their own guidelines. I pondered including knitting and crochet, which is also needlework, but in the end left it out. No particular reason. I do both, but wanted to concentrate on "threaded needles". I'm not trying to force a point of view. I thought it would be fun. Dianne I think it's a fun thought. Debra in VA |
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#22
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tennhick had some very interesting things
to say about Needlework Proficiency Levels: fwiw, in real colleges and universities, people who are enrolled in fine arts or music programs aren't expected to be masters of every media or instrument nor are those who go into 'science' expected to know everything about quantum physics or molecular biology before they're awarded a degree. IOW, I see nothing wrong in granting novice or even intermediate status to those talented people who have specialized in one type of needlework. Also, perhaps you might want to consider adding 'apprentice' or some other designation for people who are willing to learn new skills in areas they haven't tackled before. Dianne's always had a very strong objection to people actually sticking to what they like. To hear her tell it, "real" needleworkers do everything and don't *have* preferences (and certainly don't like doing (gasp) *counted*). -- Seanette Blaylock "You attribute perfect rationality to the whole of humanity, which has to be one of the most misguided assumptions ever." - Alan Krueger in NANAE [make obvious correction to address to send e-mail] |
#23
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:46:32 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski
wrote: Debra wrote: Like you, I'd be stuck at the novice level of the program today for lack of fulfilling one or two points, while at the same time having achieved many points of each higher level. Debra in VA And those "one or two points" would be??? Dianne Well, I don't remember ever doing coral stitch before, although I've used many more surface embroidery stitches than the other three you listed for a novice to know. And I'm sure I haven't used herringbone while hand sewing as I've never done applique with decorative stitches but that's the only way I think I have seen herringbone used in sewing. I will admit that I got out my stitch dictionaries to look up stitch names just to be sure which stitches they were. I know how to do more stitches than the ones I know the names of. Of course while I was looking up the ones I was checking on, I also found a few I'd like to try. Oh and, I am quite willing to say I can thread a needle with all the fibers I have dealt with so far, but there are others (like untwisted silk) that I've never used so I can't really say I can thread a needle with all fibers. (But I'm just splitting hairs for fun here.) I've actually printed your original post just to see how many things I could check off as something learned and how many things I lack. It's been a fun sort of exercise and I may well try to do a few of those things I am lacking in. Debra in VA |
#24
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"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message ... Needlework is a constantly improving process. Things you do in one technique help you in another technique. One needn't study satin stitch for ten years to become a master at it. Unless, of course, you only did it 50 times in those 10 years. grin Each of us has areas that we love best, pursue the hardest. Nothing wrong with that. I was just thinking in larger terms. Dianne Absolutely Dianne - as one who has been wielding a needle for over 45 years (I'm 52) I think the criteria are challenging but easily meet for someone who is interested in needlework as a broad medium - certainly those who are dedicated to cross stitch ( cringe as I say this) have a long way to go BUT... as you said earlier in these posts "JUST REMEMBER: It's a needlework school, not a cross stitch school, or a sewing school. It's a TOTAL school. So, if you don't want a total education, you don't go there. huge grin" I rank (IMHO) at "working towards Advanced". I teach Canvas - traditional and creative (first love) raised embroidery, stumpwork, crewel, freestyle, Mountmellick, silk ribbon, ( my strongest loathing) Brazilian, shadow work, woollen (OZ style), counted thread work such as Hardanger, pulled, drawn, cross-stitch, Myreschka, Schwalm, Gold work etc. While creative embroidery on Canvas as a ground fabric is my forte, I love most counted techniques, bit find cross stitch very limiting - too monotonous, I guess. Then again when I was knitting a picture pattern knitted in from a graph (think Kaffe Fassett) Aran pattern or very fine lace was essential. Have not quite a "been there done that " attitude but almost - if you stop growing/learning you might as well stop altogether. Hope you all have a very happy New Year, Morilyn in hot sweltering Brisbane Aust. |
#25
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"Debra" wrote: And I'm sure I haven't used herringbone while hand sewing as I've never done applique with decorative stitches but that's the only way I think I have seen herringbone used in sewing. Actually I've used herringbone for hems. It works particularly well when the edge might fray and you don't want to use seam binding. I've also used it to hold interfacing in place on tailored jackets. Lucille |
#26
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Seanette Blaylock wrote:
Dianne's always had a very strong objection to people actually sticking to what they like. To hear her tell it, "real" needleworkers do everything and don't *have* preferences (and certainly don't like doing (gasp) *counted*). That's simply not true. I do - and love - counted embroidery. There are *many* types of "counted" embroidery. And yes, I think people have preferences. They find a type, technique, artform (modern, magical, folk, classic, native American, et al) and do that more than anything else. I think that's perfectly "normal". However, Debra had an interesting comment that pretty much sums up much of my personal point of view: [paraphrased] If you don't dabble, how will you know what you will ultimately like? sigh You continually, through the years, misinterpret my words. However, I will take the blame, because often times I don't say what I mean to say. Dianne |
#27
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Herringbone, besides being a very versatile embroidery stitch, is used
in sewing - and in modern times you may know it by another term: catch stitching. It's used to keep seams from raveling and sew them down at the same time; as decorative stitching in tailoring, and to stitch down hems that have a lining over them. Coral stitch: used in drawn thread, needlelace, and as a surface stitch - most notably in Schwalm. Believe me when I tell you that I am not anywhere *near* the advanced stage. :-) Dianne Debra wrote: On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:46:32 -0600, Dianne Lewandowski wrote: Debra wrote: Like you, I'd be stuck at the novice level of the program today for lack of fulfilling one or two points, while at the same time having achieved many points of each higher level. Debra in VA And those "one or two points" would be??? Dianne Well, I don't remember ever doing coral stitch before, although I've used many more surface embroidery stitches than the other three you listed for a novice to know. And I'm sure I haven't used herringbone while hand sewing as I've never done applique with decorative stitches but that's the only way I think I have seen herringbone used in sewing. I will admit that I got out my stitch dictionaries to look up stitch names just to be sure which stitches they were. I know how to do more stitches than the ones I know the names of. Of course while I was looking up the ones I was checking on, I also found a few I'd like to try. Oh and, I am quite willing to say I can thread a needle with all the fibers I have dealt with so far, but there are others (like untwisted silk) that I've never used so I can't really say I can thread a needle with all fibers. (But I'm just splitting hairs for fun here.) I've actually printed your original post just to see how many things I could check off as something learned and how many things I lack. It's been a fun sort of exercise and I may well try to do a few of those things I am lacking in. Debra in VA |
#28
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Dianne Lewandowski said
However, Debra had an interesting comment that pretty much sums up much of my personal point of view: [paraphrased] If you don't dabble, how will you know what you will ultimately like? rank me as a sub-dabbler grade 1 ;-) Although I appreciate the time and talent it takes to do counted cross stitch, I've found that I have a really, really hard time following charts, plus my stitches, despite my best efforts, are always a bit 'off.' I've bought the Anchor books for crewel and free style embroidery and a few other stitching encyclopedias and am working my way through 'em to increase my repertoire. A 3- D style which goes by many names 'talks' to me more than others that I've seen discussed here. I'm finding that even though it can be more than a tad boring to do satin, couching, or split stitches, I'm happiest with solid fills. This may or may not be due to the fact that I'm still using 'cheap' fabrics which aren't interesting by themselves or it could be that the designs I'm practising on 'require' solid fills. In any case, I'm enjoying the discussions here. Anne |
#29
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Morilyn & Stan opined thusly:
"Dianne Lewandowski" wrote in message ... Needlework is a constantly improving process. Things you do in one technique help you in another technique. One needn't study satin stitch for ten years to become a master at it. Unless, of course, you only did it 50 times in those 10 years. grin Each of us has areas that we love best, pursue the hardest. Nothing wrong with that. I was just thinking in larger terms. Dianne Absolutely Dianne - as one who has been wielding a needle for over 45 years (I'm 52) I think the criteria are challenging but easily meet for someone who is interested in needlework as a broad medium - certainly those who are dedicated to cross stitch ( cringe as I say this) have a long way to go BUT... as you said earlier in these posts "JUST REMEMBER: It's a needlework school, not a cross stitch school, or a sewing school. It's a TOTAL school. So, if you don't want a total education, you don't go there. huge grin" I rank (IMHO) at "working towards Advanced". I teach Canvas - traditional and creative (first love) raised embroidery, stumpwork, crewel, freestyle, Mountmellick, silk ribbon, ( my strongest loathing) Brazilian, shadow work, woollen (OZ style), counted thread work such as Hardanger, pulled, drawn, cross-stitch, Myreschka, Schwalm, Gold work etc. While creative embroidery on Canvas as a ground fabric is my forte, I love most counted techniques, bit find cross stitch very limiting - too monotonous, I guess. Then again when I was knitting a picture pattern knitted in from a graph (think Kaffe Fassett) Aran pattern or very fine lace was essential. Have not quite a "been there done that " attitude but almost - if you stop growing/learning you might as well stop altogether. Hope you all have a very happy New Year, Morilyn in hot sweltering Brisbane Aust. I'm begining to think I need to head waaaaaaay down south and sit at your knee for a while. -- Regards --Anne Blogging to be found at http://www.emptycauldron.com/weblog/musings.html Remove DIESPAMBOTDIE to e-mail |
#30
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From: tennhick
...... Although I appreciate the time and talent it takes to do counted cross stitch, I've found that I have a really, really hard time following charts, plus my stitches, despite my best efforts, are always a bit 'off.' ......... In any case, I'm enjoying the discussions here. I know that one of the things Dianne urges -- and me too -- is for people to try other types of needlework. We do tend to get a bit pushy at times, probably because we have found that knowing how to do many different types of needlework (not necessarily well, just being familiar with them) really does help us to be better stitchers when we are working on whichever type of needlework happens our favourite. Because we are always urging others -- quite vociferously some times -- to "push the enveloope" of their comfort zone, we tend to make people think that we are advocating a "MUST DO" philosophy. In a way we ARE doing just that I suppose. I have difficulty understanding why people won't even attempt something new. As Dianne said "...If you don't dabble, how will you know what you will ultimately like?..." The thrill of trying something new is sort of a siren song for MOI, even if I only have an "el cheapo" little kit. If you don't like the new technique, that's fine -- but until you try it you will never know. Heck, even if you don't want to try something new, that's fine too. Just be aware that you are missing out on some *really wonderful* stuff :-). CiaoMeow ^;;^ .. PAX, Tia Mary ^;;^ Queen of Kitties Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their WHISKERS!! Nothing is complete without a few cat hairs! |
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