OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

When I'm in need of changing hair stylists & don't have any current
recommendations, I call a salon & tell the receptionist that I'm looking for
a new hairdresser & I have lots of hair, but no ability to style it. Can I
meet with one of their stylists to discuss my hair & see if we would be a
good fit? It's usually not a problem - just have to schedule a time when
they aren't busy. I've never been charged for it, but I suppose it wouldn't
be out of order to do so. Be sure & tell them you need remedial hair
styling help

Good you're going to the doctor. I didn't think you had a pizza face. I
know what you mean though - I had more break outs when I was in my 30's &
40's than I did as a teenager.

I used to suffer terribly from PMS - my evil twin came out then. That's
something you may want to discuss with your MD as well - there is help out
there for you. Keep your chin up & keep asking for help. You'll start to
make changes & they'll start to be easier & pretty soon, things will fall
into place for you.
--
Pauline
Northern California
"Tricia" wrote in message
ups.com...

Pauline wrote:
And don't feel you have to buy everything or anything
from them. I always tell them I need to wear it for the rest of the day
to
see if my skin reacts to anything - which is true. If the new product

Thank you for bringing that up. It gives me a ready thing in mind when
I go in there to keep from getting pressured into something that I
could very well regret (for any number of reasons) later on.



You can also "interview" potential hairstylists to see if you

*how* do you do that -- interview hairstylists? Maybe it's the places
I go but I've never had someone really work with me, well, not true --
one guy one time took one good look at me and just declared he was
going to make me beautiful and did a wonderful job on my hair, helped
me with some basics in hair styling products (small talk by bed head).
However, by teh time I went back (I use annoyance as the main deciding
factor on when to get my hair cut) he had moved on to a better quality
place (I assume) and I couldn't track him down. I hate when I go in
some place regularly and each person who works with my hair gives me
conflicting recommendations on products, etc.

think you will work well together. See what they suggest & explain how
it's
a weak area for you, so it needs to be doable for YOU. Sometimes it
takes a
few visits for your hairstylist & you to get to a good spot.

I also recommend seeing a dermatologist if your skin is breaking out.
Don't
try to "fix" it yourself. You need to see a professional.

New patient appointment is Oct. 20th. I know I probably made it sound
like I was a "pizza face" but in reality it's just a few (half dozen
maybe) spots -- but very noticable and more than I had as a teenager
and they come with my cycle more often than not.


If you're worried about your weight - try to dress in a way that helps
to
camoflage the areas you're most concerned about. This is another area
where
a good sales person can help you. And remember - you can always return
anything you buy that you have buyers remorse after you get home & try
it on
again. You can also return make-up - even to drug stores. (It looked
different when I got it home - it made me break out - it creased in my
eyelids, etc.)

Good luck - you sound like you need a lift & taking it one step at a
time
will really help you to feel better about your appearance. Keep us
posted!

Pauline

Thanks Pauline, You are right, I do need a lift -- in a big way. I
was in the throes of a really bad bout of PMS this morning when I was
typing (and crying) away, am slightly better now but these are issues
that have been bothering me -- they just don't seem to reach critical
status unless the hormones are wacked.

Tricia

I agree with Sandy about volunteering. I have many, many good friends that
I would have never met if I hadn't volunteered to coordinate a Project Linus
chapter.

Organizations are always looking for volunteers. I'm convinced that our
volunteers (me included) get as much out of making Project Linus blankets as
the kids do out of receiving the blankets.
--
Donna in Idaho
Reply to daawra3553 at yahoo dot com

"Sandy Ellison" wrote in message
...
Howdy!

Catherines has good clothing and great sales:
http://catherines.charmingshoppes.com/pagebuilder/

Meeting people: Tricia! Keep trying.
Getting to know folks at church? Join the volunteers!
When there's a meeting (committee, women's group, groundskeepers, etc.)
show up. If you're easy for people to overlook, they will.
You CAN do this. (Believe me, "they" don't fire volunteers. g)

Ragmop/Sandy--whose quilt guild has 4 monthly small groups meeting
at our church, and a band of quilters who just get together to
gab and sew ;-)

On 8/28/06 8:06 PM, in article
, "Tricia"
wrote:


Julia in MN wrote:
Or if you have a BeautiControl consultant in your area, give her a call.
They also help with wardrobe colors. Department store makeup counters
can also help.

Julia in MN


When I got interested in fabric and learning to sew, I did get books
out of the library for the color selection thing and learned that I am
very definitely a SPRING and am very comfortable with picking
flattering colors for clothes -- that is one that I am fairly well
versed in when seeking business/work clothes. When I "bum around" town
or home I tend to do jeans and any old t-shirt but for work I *can*
dress. The principal where I was teaching called me into her office
one day for a discussion on upgrading my work wardrobe (I was being too
casual in my dress). I went and bought a bunch of things that are very
nice. Some don't fit appropriately anymore due to some weight
gain/redistribution, but some still do. The Sears downstate actually
has a decent ladies/petites department, although none of the pants in
the two piece items fit me (Kate D -- any tips for a newbie on hemming
up tapered slacks?) but I found a nice brand of pants that I could wear
nicely and bought a mixture of colors to fill the gaps.

The nearest dept store is a small JC Penny and this one doesn't have a
make up counter (I went tonight and checked). The Sears outside town
is strictly appliances and manly machines. I'm now starting to look
for others that might be nearby that I dont' know about (I was never
much of a shopper either -- another teen girly thing that just passed
me by).

Thanks Julia,
Tricia

Tricia, You mentioned nails & not wearing polish. I don't know what is
"trendy" in your area, but I live in the San Francisco Bay Area & most
"professional" women that I encounter have nicely groomed nails, with clear
or almost clear nail polish. You said you usually make a mess with nail
polish, but if you tried a clear polish, it wouldn't matter if you made a
mess, because it wouldn't show, but your nails would look nicely groomed.
Just another thought . . .
--
Pauline
Northern California
"Tricia" wrote in message
oups.com...
Wow! thanks. Okay, I do own (although they are old) eyeshadow in a
nice collection of browns and greens (I have hazel eyes), a brown
eyeliner pencil (somewhere...that one probably does need replacing) and
a lipstick color that honestly is too wrong for my coloring for daily
wear but dramatic for nightwear -- oh, and a nice goldish/peach
lipgloss. I don't even know where to start with my eyebrows. I don't
think they are unruly growth wise -- just extremely light -- except for
the errant dark brown hairs that show up now and then.

Nails are growing the last few years for the first time in my life (the
positive side of the hormone issue). I finally found my nailfile (had
temporarily been using one of those emery boards from a high end hotel
bathroom kit) and curved off the edges last night. They aren't a
uniform length but they appear to be healthy. I rarely polish them
because I usually make a mess with the polish but every so often I try
it.

I got my wardrobe colors good. I'm comfortable with that. I can't
always find what I want but I no longer buy the stuff that really isn't
my coloring anymore -- least not in dress up clothes.

Shoes -- every day wear is a pair of new balance gym shoes (tennis
shoes, whatever they are called nowadays). They were doctor
recommended for support. Dressy I have two pairs of Mushrooms, modest
heel -- navy blue and ivory/cream.

Thanks mini Mini! That was a lot to process....

Tricia

mini Mini wrote:
I learned from my mother & friends mothers, my girlfriends, reading
magazines and practicing to see what I like. I've changed my style over
the years. But basically, I learned
- A little goes a long way
- You have to work with what you have.
- Make up is to enhance not to cover up.

You need four things for day: That's it:
_eyeshadow_ in brown/tan/beige, (depending on how light or dark you
are), ie neutral colors
_eyeliner_ that is a little darker than your eyeshadow (pencil, dont'
get the liquid stuff, that's advanced level!),
_brow pencil or powder_ the color of your brow,
_lipstick_ in a color that is the color of your lips but just a bit
darker.
Use a tiny bit and blend slightly with your fingers.

Get your eyebrows shaped professionally. It is worth the investment. You
will be surprised how much better your eyes look!

Keep yourself neat and tidy.

Take care of your nails. They don't have to be long claws, just clean &
tidy.

Stick with classics and neutral colors: dont' try to be trendy.

Buy the best you can afford in natural fabrics, in your correct size,
get them altered if they don't fit properly. Then take care of them.

Invest in well made leather shoes, and take care of them (keep them
clean & polished). Our feet are much more important than most people
treat them.

Work with what you have: if you have straight hair work with that. If
you have curly hair work with that. It is little use trying to fight it
if you dont' have experience and an investment in lots of product. Keep
your hair clean & tidy. Get a good hair cut and keep it healthy and
tidy. Find a good product for flyaway or dry hair. (but a little goes a
long way. Don't drown your hair in product)

That's it. All my wisdom I impart on you, my child, and you will look a
million dollars! ;o)

another long useless rambling of pointlessness, lol.
........
this just goes to show how easily it is to misread the meaning of a post.
i'm sure we all do it now and again.
i'm sure we all forget when posting to be sure what we say wont be taken too
much differently than what we mean.
i knew what you meant, Irene.
but then again, maybe i was just in the right frame of mind when you wrote
it. i also understood what tricia meant when asking about it all in the
first place.
so for the record....
tho i wore make-up in my late teens/twentys. after having a couple of kids
who has time and by the time they were no longer babys i didnt really care
if i needed make-up anymore. now its just too much trouble. i use lots of
moisturizer, sometimes i even remember to use a toner first, then chapstick
if the old lips feel a bit dry. thats about it for me.
i cut my own hair, last time i took off about 15 inches in mid May. it
started out blonde but now is more a dull light sumpin, going white, not
grey. i'd love to lighten it again but its just too much trouble i think.
i've never coloured my hair so not too sure what or where to start, lol. oh
wait, i did use lemon juice yrs ago when i spent hrs sunbathing. dont bother
doing that now either, no good for the skin now and when its hot enough all
i want to do is take a nap, lol.
getting old aint a a thimbleful of fun.
i had a thot on make up just now....there is powder stuff you brush on that
has spheres of light that are supposed to even out your skin tone and can
also be used as a blusher and eyeshadow, no idea how it works but for one
price might be worth a look/see around the pharmacy/drug store for something
similar. i'm sure they have one much the same there in usa.
it comes in choice for light or dark skinned ladies. can be brushed where
ever you need to give you a slightly tanned appearance.
heres a couple of links of the brands here in nz.
http://www.chemistdiscounter.co.nz/i...hp?cPath=57_21
http://www.pharmacydiscounter.com/na...mour/index.htm
there are a few different brands of the same type stuff.
those will give you a better idea of what i'm rambling on about.
cheers,
jeanne
roflmao or i lost my mind, a bit of both really

--
san-fran at ihug dot co dot nz
nzlstar on yahoo msg'r
nzlstar on webshots
gen.gen.co.nz
"IMS" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:59:54 GMT, "Kathy Applebaum"
wrote:

Yes, there are plenty of women who don't feel the need for makeup and high
heels (at least in my neck of the woods.) But the reality in the job market
is that if you don't fit the "image", whether it's because you don't care
for make up or because you have tats or dreds or are overweight or
whatever,
you're at a disadvantage in many companies and with many customers. (And
it's as true for men as for women.) That image changes from place to
place -- it's not the same if you're applying for a job at a law firm as if
you're applying for a cashiering at the food co-op. A suit works better at
one, Birkenstocks and tie-dye work better at the other.

I made a choice 20 years ago that I didn't want to work for companies that
felt image was more important than ability to do the work. Has that limited
my choices? Absolutely! But it suits my personality, and so was the right
choice for me.

For some people, the right choice is to conform to "the image" so they have
more economic opportunity. Tricia has chosen that path -- what's wrong with
her asking for help in that regard?

I didn't think there was any problem with her asking for help. I was
simply curious as to why she felt the need to, that's all. Don't read
anything more into it than that 'cause that's all it was - curiosity.

-Irene


--------------
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
--Mae West
--------------

Its not just the big volunteering opportunities. I seem to be the
expert in our Church Hall/Community Hall kitchen! Helping with the
coffee at meetings is a brilliant way to meet people, and they always
find getting people to volunteer difficult.

You just say 'Do you need any help' and you don't have to ask twice,
and chatting over the washingup afterwards is great for breaking the
ice. Sounds mundane, but it works, and every group you join drink
coffee!.

Last week I spent a day serving tea and light refreshments to the
troups (our town carnival had the band of the Welsh Guards), and on
Saturday it was an animal charity's sale, and guess who was serving
tea/coffee. I'm also one of the few people who is confident empying
the hot water urn!

You will soon get a reputation for being williang and reliable. DH and
I volunteered to be responsible for putting the chairs out at our
local Civic Society meetings, an easy job but really appreciated, and
I give lifts to non-driving neighbours when we are going to the same
meetings. Giving lifts also means you have someone to sit with!

Another little thought on getting to know people. Guilds/Women's
groups etc often have little sub groups of about 10 people. Our
Women's Institute has an informal slimming club (bit of a joke really,
the weighing is quick and the chat is long!) and a Lunch group (a lot
of the same people as the slimming group(!). You soon get to know just
10 people, and they get to know you even quicker as they only have to
learn one new name. Then you will find that you are greeted by name at
the bigger meetings and will be introduced to the 10 people's
friends.!

Four years ago DH and I knew nobody. Now, between us, we know lots of
people.
--
Sally at the Seaside ~~~~~~~~~~ (uk)
http://community.webshots.com/user/sallyswin


On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:56:05 -0600, "Donna in Idaho"
wrote:

I agree with Sandy about volunteering. I have many, many good friends that
I would have never met if I hadn't volunteered to coordinate a Project Linus
chapter.

Organizations are always looking for volunteers. I'm convinced that our
volunteers (me included) get as much out of making Project Linus blankets as
the kids do out of receiving the blankets.

The large drug store chains in this area take back make-up for any
reason. These include CVS and Walgreens.

Linda
PATCHogue, NY

On 29 Aug 2006 12:31:33 +0200, mini Mini wrote:

Ok. never mind! but it is surprising to be able to return make up. Usually
that is a no no.

Unlike most girls, I actually learned a lot of these lessons in J.H.S.
and HS Home Ec, although I didn't pay them much mind until later. The
biggest lesson was "less is better." Just highlight, don't "color." S

I also learned how to do such practical things as my nails, wrap
gifts, and, of course sew, since my mother didn't. She bought a sewing
machine to make curtains on when we moved to our house and never used
it after that. So thank-you, Mrs. Lyman, who to me seemed to be 80
when I was 12.

My mother didn't wear make-up until I was a teenager and she
experimented with mine. She was though, and still is, a once a week to
the beauty parlor person and I still wash and do my hair every other
day, although my hairstylist now says I should aim for every 3rd day.

I actually find my stylist at a place that advertises as specializing
in children. I wore my hair long and straight, sometimes with bangs,
and sometimes without, for more years than I care to mention. After
losing 20 lbs on Weight Watchers, I decided to go in for a change. I
discussed this with her and explalined that I needed to be able to do
a wash and wear sometimes. She came up with the perfect cut. Looks
casual and free when washed and crunched with gel, but not dried and
looks layered and more sophisticated when dried. My hair used to be
stick straight, but I guess at some point it developed a slight wave
that wasn't evident until it was cut.

For business clothes, I prefer Avenues to Catherines. They have a
better selection of things I like and better sales and coupons. Sign
up for their mailing list and get coupons that can be used online.
www.avenue.com. I also love their demin light jeans.



On 28 Aug 2006 08:12:24 -0700, "Tricia"
wrote:

No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.

I think most of us would probably say that the teen years is the WHEN
in regards to learning to be a "woman" rather than a "girl". During my
teen years my life was pretty screwed up (mom and stepass getting
divorced, long lost father back in my life, acquiring a stepmother,
living with an abusive alcoholic, etc. PLUS all the usual teen angst
issues). Somewhat as a result (I think) something "short circuited" in
my development in *how* to be a woman rather than a girl, or rather in
some other regards, being an adult vs a child. I didn't have role
models for what I'm facing now in any regard.

Specific to the Woman v Girl thing, I know virtually nothing about make
up, let alone how to properly apply it so I don't look like clown or
tramp. Forget trying to style my hair (although I have a little more
knowledge on that) in anything other than a basic flyaway ponytail --
it's basically not happening (these days it's more like getting me to
do anything other than use a headband 'cause it only makes a stubby
tail). Occassionally I get a perm. I can't manage to use curlers to
save my soul, not even the nice heated ones DH got me a few years ago
at my request. Basically when it comes to being "pretty", "feminine",
and "done up", I friggin' suck.

Part of it is having been raised with the mantra that God blessed me
and I didn't need make up and stuff to mask it all. For the most part,
I believe the philosophy (in the sense that we are the way we are
supposed to be, etc.) and while I tended to leave God out of it,
frequently shared that philosophy with my students (middle schoolers)
when the question inevitably came up why I was one of maybe two or
three female teachers in our building who didn't wear make-up. That
was fine in that enviroment -- I might have gotten more respect from
some of the adults I dealt with if I had been "done up" but I got
through it okay.

I suspect something that is hindering my ability to get hired lately is
the fact that I don't "do" make up and such -- with my baby face (and
unfortunately being noticably overweight), I tend to look younger than
my age, which at times translates for some (I suspect) as flighty or
incompetent. -- or like I just "don't care" (current hormone issues
resulting in pimples doesn't help dispel that myth either).

Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia

Came late to this discussion, so I'll hop in here! You mention being very
fair, so you probably need something to define your brows and lashes so they
don't disappear. Lots of hairdressers will also dye your brows and lashes.
Lasts about 6 weeks before starting to fade (these hairs fall out too!) But
the great benefit is not having to deal with it day-to-day. You can add
more/ darker mascara for big occasions, or eye-liner or whatever. But the
"essential" color is there. I only discovered this late when my brows began
turning gray. Don't mind graying hair, but it was a shock to look in the
mirror one day and realize my eyebrows had vanished!
Roberta in D

"Tricia" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...

Kate Dicey wrote:


The make-up stuff is just practice and experimentation, like quilting.
VERY like quilting! You find colours and styles that you like and
experiment until you modify them to suit you, and then you keep doing
them until you get good at it. Then you can slowly modify them again as
you mature/change/whatever...

*snicker* That scares me actually BEG my quilt stuff doesn't look
that good up close either.


I don't, and never have (even as a student teacher!) worn make-up in
school, not since I was a kid and a pupil with faaaaaar too much time on
my hands at boarding school!! No-one ever commented, not wearing it
never lost me a job, and it didn't lose me the respect of colleagues.
But then I always knew who and what I was, what I was doing, and had the
confidence to carry it off. I think it has a lot to do with your sense
of self worth and your self image rather than the war paint as such.

I agree and that's a part of why I don't think it affected me too much
when I was teaching -- I just know I was also dealing with some who
were old school enough that I didn't "look" professional without make
up -- but to be honest, it's only looking back that I think that was
even slightly an issue then. My principal used to have a slight issue
with it until I made it very clear one day in the teachers lunch room
that I was purposely setting an example for our teenage girls that they
didn't need to be spackling themselves (and since make up was against
dress code for the students she seemed to realize what I was doing was
a good thing for our girls).

I have lost a huge chunk of that confidence with the weight gain (being
overweight wasn't ever something I experienced -- I was always
underweight until I had a hormone issue kick in and since....ikes!) and
with being in a new environment. I have had so much work rejection in
the last year, I'm beginning to doubt my worth as a contributing member
of the community.


The weight and the spots may have more to do with it than the lack of
make-up, but again, I suspect your projection of yourself rather than
how you look: if *you* see these as disadvantages, they will be. I
didn't find my excess weight to be a problem in getting a job, but it
might be if it affects your mobility and you get breathless stomping up
stairs. Personally, even if hormonally induced, I wouldn't be
slastering my face with make-up if the spots were on the rampage. I'd
be avoiding it more than ever, and pestering the quack for a solution.

The weight doesn't much effect my mobility (I can't squeeze into tight
spaces anymore but it's not a hinderance on movement) and since I began
a workout program a few months ago, the stairs don't even seem to have
an effect on my asthma these days.


These are about the only times I bother with make-up these days - and
I'm pushing 50! Clear skin and a good moisturiser are far better for
you than an inch of slap! Mind you, I have dark eyes, lashes and
brows, and colour in my cheeks. If you are fair to mousey with lightly
marked brows and not a lot of colour in you, you may find a little
subtle help goes a long way.

Subtle is what I want -- what I can do currently is clownish, looking
very much like someone very inept. I am fair, with freckles, light
eyebrows, glasses (although more stylish than previous pairs --
contacts not an option -- I don't put things in my eyes).
Oh, my face soap of choice is still noxema cream original. I like how
my skin feels in general when I use it.


These days when I do access the war paint, I tend to use a light tinted
moisturiser (I like the Nivea Visage ones), good quality eye make-up
(Clinique, Dior, Guerlaine, and Lancome), and Maybeline or Miners
mascara. For some reason all the 'really good' makes of make-up do
really crap mascara!

I have heard that a lot! (the mascara thing). Does anyone here from
the states know off hand if the Visage is available stateside? When I
did have a little help at the Satin Hands thing with MK, I discovered
that they don't have a liquid foundation near enough to my coloring so
the gal had me order a powder that comes very close -- however, I can't
seem to apply it right or something -- it is always noticable -- I
look, well, dusty (and I try to buff a lot to take most of it off so
it isn't caked on -- at least that's the intent). I think a liquid
would be easier to control.


Just buy a little, some good cleanser that suits your skin, and some
decent brushes (make up artists use sable paint brushes, not 'make-up'
brushes!) and have fun!

Hmm..other than the brushes that come with, I've only ever owned a
separate brush and that's usually been for attempting to apply powder.

Thanks Kate --
Tricia

Good advice. And a stylist should be able to tell you if it would
work. I first brought a picture of Alex Andersen with her longer
hairstyle. Stylist told me she could cut it like that but it would
always have to be dried and teased and sprayed and she knew that
wasn't me. She also thought that it would be too dramatic a change
from what I was used to. She made some suggestions and I went with
them. She told me to live with it a few weeks and if I wanted it
shorter she would do it the next time. And, of course, she was right.

Linda
PATCHogue, NY

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:55:43 -0500, Julia in MN
wrote:

One more note to all the good advice that everyone has given you -- if
you go to a hair stylist for a new "do", take along some pictures of
hairdos you like. Cut them out of magazines (pay or find them on the
internet (try googling hairdo pictures). Ask the stylist if the styles
you like are appropriate for your hair type

Sandy, I've seen you and you're beautiful!
Tricia, here's a (((hug))). You've been sounding more and more cheerful as
this thread continues, but if you still need a lift, get hold of all the
books in the "Ladies' #1 Detective Agency" series by Alexander McCall Smith.
I simply love the description of the "traditionally built" main character
and her absolute confidence in herself!
Roberta in D, who once would have committed a serious crime in return for
thick red hair

"Sandy Ellison" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Howdy!

[[[[[Tricia]]]]]

My mom thinks "make-up" is her lipstick and maybe a stroke of that
turquoise eyeshadow that was so popular in the early 1970s. When she
sees me w/ a blend of eyeshadow and/or a touch --just a touch-- of
blusher on my face-- she calls me an ugly name. I got over that years
ago; no need to carry her baggage w/ me, right?
So I didn't grow up doing the girly-girly toilette routine, either.
Lucky for me, long, straight, shiny hair was THE trend in my teens.
However, in my mid-twenties it was way past time to ditch the
ponytails and do something about my "complexion."
Went to a local lady's wear shop, asked about "nice clothes",
got fitted for the "correct support garments" g, and then swallowed
my embarrassment and said, "Any advice on make-up?"
Since then I've worn an oil-free base foundation, light dusting of
loose powder, and a bit of color on my eyes, and try to keep some
lip color to stay on. G The light layer of foundation and powder
really helps keep the oil under control, cuts down on the zits,
and makes me look like I at least tried to fit into the "normal"
for grown-up American women. g

Tricia, STOP getting your hair permed. Very few women look good w/
permed hair; so many just go w/ that crinkly look, not styling that perm,
and that looks worse than flat, straight hair. A nice layered cut
puts some bounce in your hair, and in your step: when you like your hair
you feel better. Color it any way you please; changing hair color is
easy, fun, and much healthier than those damned perms!

Got a shopping mall near you? The gals (mostly women) at the make-up
counters enjoy giving lessons in how to best use their products,
for YOUR skin, how to make you look good.
One of my best friends works for Dior at a local Dillard's Dept. store.
She's gorgeous at age 55, loves make-up (always has) and got the job when
she got divorced 8 yrs. ago; she's quite a success.
Part of her success in selling her products is that she knows How To:
how to go w/ a light, day look, how to go w/ more color or deeper shades
for
glamour, how to play up eyes, make a fuller mouth, how to choose the right
color of foundation.
That's what the make-up sellers are trained to do. I've gone to her
special make-up sales and had a complete "do" to increase her sales
numbers, tho' I seldom buy anything. I'm just not spending that much
money on make-up. Walgreens, CVS, grocery stores supply most of what
I prefer, oil-free, light-weight, throw=out-the-leftovers make-up.
Mary Kay: can't wear the stuff, myself; haven't agreed w/ the 3
salesladies at the "parties" I attended: I refuse to wear pink make-up.
I attend these parties for good friends; "This is a party?
You better have good refreshments!" g
My Avon lady keeps me supplied w/ good moisturizers and other
products that keep my complexion clear(er).
Go to an "Expert" and find the right products for yourself, then
go to a shop that sells something similar for a more reasonable price
that fits your budget.
IF your complexion is driving you crazy, see your doctor. You can
get a prescription that helps your skin from the inside out. My skin
has been noticeably clearer since I gave up drinking soda pop in March.

You need to feel better about the way you look. This is a place to
start. And to feel better about yourself: give up the old crap
from the way you were raised. You don't live w/ those people any more;
move on!
Being overweight: my mom never passes up a chance to mention it.
She's not, never has been; I take after my dad's side of the family,
tall & "BIG", or short & round. No one force feeds me. I've proved to
myself I can lose weight. Most people can. It's the obsessing about
it that makes me sick. (Can't watch Oprah anymore, she's all about her
body image! Get the fu## over it!)
My tall, slender older brother said to me a few years ago,
"Mom always makes smartass cracks about your weight;
how can you stand it?" I said, "Dave, so I'm fat and she's a bitch.
The thing is, I can lose weight." VBG
Being overweight shouldn't hold you back.

One of the oddest jobs I ever had was working at a "temp agency",
interviewing prospective employees and sending them on job interviews.
**Meaning NO offense** : I learned that women here in/from Texas take
more care for how they look in public, than do women "up north"
like my hometown in n.Illinois. The hardest part of the job was
getting the "transports" (women who moved to Texas from the
central northern part of the U.S.) to "Fix yourself up!" before
going on an interview. "Want a professional job? Look professional."
If this is really what's bugging you, it's easy to "fix" right now.

To bring this On Topic (Quilting): I knew that my grands and great-grands,
aunts and mothers, all quilted. But I didn't see them quilt. I saw my
mom do embroidery, quilt top piecing, all kinds of handcrafts, but I
didn't
grow up w/ anyone showing me How To Quilt. I learned because I wanted
to quilt. And now I'm pretty good at it. And I look presentable at the
Big Functions we must attend in Dallas or Ft.Worth, and my husband's
boss never hesitates to give me The Billionaire Kiss at the annual
Christmas party. VBG I must be doing something right w/
clothes and make-up. ;-D

Good luck, Sweetie!

Ragmop/Sandy--who still doesn't "get" that eyelash curling thing,
but I no longer care... g



On 8/28/06 10:12 AM, in article
, "Tricia"
wrote:

No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.

I think most of us would probably say that the teen years is the WHEN
in regards to learning to be a "woman" rather than a "girl". During my
teen years my life was pretty screwed up (mom and stepass getting
divorced, long lost father back in my life, acquiring a stepmother,
living with an abusive alcoholic, etc. PLUS all the usual teen angst
issues). Somewhat as a result (I think) something "short circuited" in
my development in *how* to be a woman rather than a girl, or rather in
some other regards, being an adult vs a child. I didn't have role
models for what I'm facing now in any regard.

Specific to the Woman v Girl thing, I know virtually nothing about make
up, let alone how to properly apply it so I don't look like clown or
tramp. Forget trying to style my hair (although I have a little more
knowledge on that) in anything other than a basic flyaway ponytail --
it's basically not happening (these days it's more like getting me to
do anything other than use a headband 'cause it only makes a stubby
tail). Occassionally I get a perm. I can't manage to use curlers to
save my soul, not even the nice heated ones DH got me a few years ago
at my request. Basically when it comes to being "pretty", "feminine",
and "done up", I friggin' suck.

Part of it is having been raised with the mantra that God blessed me
and I didn't need make up and stuff to mask it all. For the most part,
I believe the philosophy (in the sense that we are the way we are
supposed to be, etc.) and while I tended to leave God out of it,
frequently shared that philosophy with my students (middle schoolers)
when the question inevitably came up why I was one of maybe two or
three female teachers in our building who didn't wear make-up. That
was fine in that enviroment -- I might have gotten more respect from
some of the adults I dealt with if I had been "done up" but I got
through it okay.

I suspect something that is hindering my ability to get hired lately is
the fact that I don't "do" make up and such -- with my baby face (and
unfortunately being noticably overweight), I tend to look younger than
my age, which at times translates for some (I suspect) as flighty or
incompetent. -- or like I just "don't care" (current hormone issues
resulting in pimples doesn't help dispel that myth either).

Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia