OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

Thanks Butterfly

Tricia

Butterflywings wrote:
Can't wear make-up, can't do 'beauty shops', and my hair is just as straight
as it can be. Can 'do' short hair and when my hands can hold it up I will
blow dry 'height' into it. Keeping this in mind I took a class on 'finding a
new job at your age for both sexes. There were 5 guys and 3 gals.

The last day of class each of us had to write ONE sentence about everyone in
the class. My 'comments' ran the gamut of:
From the guys
"I couldn't wait to "see" what you were going to wear You have the 'nicest
wardrobe' I have ever seen Do you go to Denver to do your clothes
shopping?"(lived on the Western Slope of CO at the time) .

Gals were mostly: You seem to be very artistic--- type of comments.

I made my clothes and they fit...didn't wear makeup and my hair was always
clean and naturally 'shiny'.

In other words you never know what others 'see' when you walk into the room

I can't give other advice but hope this helps somewhat.

Good luck in your job hunt. Let us know what you find.

Butterfly (no, I was NOT allowed to wear makeup in HS so I learned in
college)

Sandy Ellison wrote:
Howdy!
Howdy!


[[[[[Tricia]]]]]

Thanks -- it's needed!

Went to a local lady's wear shop, asked about "nice clothes",
got fitted for the "correct support garments" g, and then swallowed

Nod -- got properly fitted a few years ago at a speciality shop
downstate and just made a stop there when I was downstate for my
cousin's wedding so I could purchase a new one (I get imported ones
that are pretty expensive so I have to get one at a time and overlap
their useful lifetimes -- we hit a rough patch for a bit and so this
was my first new one in over 2 years)

my embarrassment and said, "Any advice on make-up?"
Since then I've worn an oil-free base foundation, light dusting of
loose powder, and a bit of color on my eyes, and try to keep some
lip color to stay on. G The light layer of foundation and powder
really helps keep the oil under control, cuts down on the zits,
and makes me look like I at least tried to fit into the "normal"
for grown-up American women. g

I understand...


Tricia, STOP getting your hair permed. Very few women look good w/
permed hair; so many just go w/ that crinkly look, not styling that perm,
and that looks worse than flat, straight hair. A nice layered cut
puts some bounce in your hair, and in your step: when you like your hair
you feel better. Color it any way you please; changing hair color is
easy, fun, and much healthier than those damned perms!

COLOR?!?! no thank you g Maybe if I can eventually find a shade that
actually would just tweak my own natural shade of reddish but until
then, those brassy reds just aren't for me. My last perm was a handful
of years ago come to think of it. I do unusually well with a spiral
when my hair is looooooooooooong and actually find that much easier to
take care of and do something with (as long as they didn't fry my hair)
than my usual hair. Even as it is growing out (again, as long as it
didn't get fried), I tend to do okay -- that styling I was actually
taught somewhat how to do --- gel or mousse in damp hair, finger comb
(or light pick), and scrunch. Well, that might be the crinkly look you
mention but at least it looked styled and decent -- way back when. s



Got a shopping mall near you?

Not really that I know of off hand -- I think TC is the closest
(although I'll be checking on that in the next few days to be sure) and
that's 1.5 hours away. Nothing compared to Texas distances I know (I
hear it all the time from hubby about how things are more spread out in
TX) but a good distance away when DH has the car at work all day, but
maybe this weekend...hmmm....there is a JoAnn's ETC
there....hmmmm......

some snipping throughout

Part of her success in selling her products is that she knows How To:
how to go w/ a light, day look, how to go w/ more color or deeper shades for
glamour, how to play up eyes, make a fuller mouth, how to choose the right
color of foundation.

Does she wanna take a trip to northern Michigan for vacation???? g

Go to an "Expert" and find the right products for yourself, then
go to a shop that sells something similar for a more reasonable price
that fits your budget.

Good advice

IF your complexion is driving you crazy, see your doctor. You can
get a prescription that helps your skin from the inside out. My skin
has been noticeably clearer since I gave up drinking soda pop in March.
Appt late Oct -- more for other things but my complexion will probably
be addressed, esp if it is at *that* time ....

Being overweight shouldn't hold you back.

Just a newer, unpleasant experience....


One of the oddest jobs I ever had was working at a "temp agency",
interviewing prospective employees and sending them on job interviews.
**Meaning NO offense** : I learned that women here in/from Texas take
more care for how they look in public, than do women "up north"
like my hometown in n.Illinois. The hardest part of the job was
getting the "transports" (women who moved to Texas from the
central northern part of the U.S.) to "Fix yourself up!" before
going on an interview. "Want a professional job? Look professional."
If this is really what's bugging you, it's easy to "fix" right now.

No offense taken -- it doesn't surprise me -- I also suspect the ladies
in TX in general are more hospitable than here and other things -- a
heritage of "southern belle" isn't let go of or dismissed easily


To bring this On Topic (Quilting): I knew that my grands and great-grands,
aunts and mothers, all quilted. But I didn't see them quilt. I saw my
mom do embroidery, quilt top piecing, all kinds of handcrafts, but I didn't
grow up w/ anyone showing me How To Quilt. I learned because I wanted
to quilt. And now I'm pretty good at it.

Point taken.


Good luck, Sweetie!

Thanks!


Ragmop/Sandy--who still doesn't "get" that eyelash curling thing,
but I no longer care... g

*That* is a torture contraption -- I don't care if my eyelashes don't
curl -- those things just pull out hairs as far as I can tell....ack!
(I briefly lived in the same house as one of my stepsisters who had one
and I tried it....painful)

Tricia

Don/Gen wrote:
Ragmop/Sandy--who still doesn't "get" that eyelash curling thing,
but I no longer care... g

IF I wear mascara (which is rare) I need the curling things--my eyelashes
are long and my glasses tend to get all messy from the mascara, plus it's
darn irritating having them rubbing on the lenses,
Gen

Gen,
They must be long -- I rarely have my lashes in contact with my lenses
unless they've fallen out (which does happen on a surprisingly regular
basis).

=)
Tricia

On 28 Aug 2006 09:08:01 -0700, "JustJoanQuilts"
wrote:
Just a phase
and all that. I just want to say that I feel that same disconnect
between being a girl and an adult but it's not just about the make-up,
that's just on the surface. These feelings for me are much deeper and
at the age of 48, I wonder if I will ever feel like or be treated like
a grown up since I don't much look like one and don't really behave
like most adults I know. Life is too short to be so serious and I
refuse to conform. Maybe that is the artist within, whatever it is, I
don't know. But I have to agree with the whole hiring aspect, I don't
look like people think I should and that can be a deterrent in many
aspects of getting the better job!! I could write more but I have to
go to my little peon job so TTFN....

Joan from GA for the moment

Joan, I agree with you whole heartily. I am 51, rarely wear makeup
but I did learn by trial and error when a teenager. I tried to be
like the other girls I just didn't want to be prissy. When I worked
every day I did wear make up but I quit when I got sick and had to
stay home. Now I sometimes wear it to church but most of the time I
don't. I get perms but they are wash and wear. My clothes are simple
although I can afford better I choose to spend my money in other ways.
Although I by no means have as much as I would need to keep up a
house, thank God for dad's. But even with my leg/knee/ankle problem
going on and several other health issues that say you are getting
older, I still do not feel my age and being over weight I don't look
it either. Both my mother and grandmother got up every day and put on
their makeup and got dressed up, etc. just to sit in the house. This
is not me. I get up and get dressed but no make up and no fancy
clothes. I cried when my oldest sister turned 50, because I couldn't
believe that any of us were old enough to be THAT OLD. LOL now I am
past that old and still think I am about 21, funny thing is turning 50
didn't bother me one bit. Of course I spent my 50th birthday in the
hospital with my mother dying so not sure I even thought of it. I
will say now that it was the worse year of my life, but I muddled
through it. I do not even own a dress, skirt or any such thing. I
have dress pants and blouses but I do not have the girly things and
yes, I am straight too. Just thought I would throw that in. But
being a woman/lady is much more than dress, hair and makeup. It is
what is in the heart that counts and unfortunate that is not going to
get a person a job. Glad I am not looking for one.

Jacqueline
Jacqueline
http://www.mountain-breeze.com
Recipes and other fun things

You might try some of the catalogues if shopping is far away. Coldwater
Creek carries some nice looking clothes in larger sizes with comfortable
fit. I don't think their prices are outrageous either. It's worth
checking.
KJ

"Tricia" wrote in message
oups.com...

Julia in MN wrote:
Or if you have a BeautiControl consultant in your area, give her a call.
They also help with wardrobe colors. Department store makeup counters
can also help.

Julia in MN


When I got interested in fabric and learning to sew, I did get books
out of the library for the color selection thing and learned that I am
very definitely a SPRING and am very comfortable with picking
flattering colors for clothes -- that is one that I am fairly well
versed in when seeking business/work clothes. When I "bum around" town
or home I tend to do jeans and any old t-shirt but for work I *can*
dress. The principal where I was teaching called me into her office
one day for a discussion on upgrading my work wardrobe (I was being too
casual in my dress). I went and bought a bunch of things that are very
nice. Some don't fit appropriately anymore due to some weight
gain/redistribution, but some still do. The Sears downstate actually
has a decent ladies/petites department, although none of the pants in
the two piece items fit me (Kate D -- any tips for a newbie on hemming
up tapered slacks?) but I found a nice brand of pants that I could wear
nicely and bought a mixture of colors to fill the gaps.

The nearest dept store is a small JC Penny and this one doesn't have a
make up counter (I went tonight and checked). The Sears outside town
is strictly appliances and manly machines. I'm now starting to look
for others that might be nearby that I dont' know about (I was never
much of a shopper either -- another teen girly thing that just passed
me by).

Thanks Julia,
Tricia

My hair gets a cut every 5 weeks and that's almost too long to go between
cuts. If I go any longer than that, I get really shaggy. Of course, when
you where your hair short like I do, the shaggies probably show up faster
than when you wear it longer.
--
Donna in Idaho
Reply to daawra3553 at yahoo dot com

"Julia in MN" wrote in message
...
Tricia wrote:
Thanks for the advice....I got my hair cut last back in mid-June (just
before my grandfather passed) and went from long to a bob between my
chin and my shoulders and the response I got from a lot of people was
really positive. I like the style, I just dont' know how often to have
it cut.
I have mine cut about every 6 weeks. My hair is really short, so you
probably don't need to have it cut that often. But if it's been since
mid-June, you are probably due for a trim.

Julia in MN

--
This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Anti-Virus

http://webpages.charter.net/jaccola/

Wow, what a variety of responses here!!!

First, Tricia I hope you can see this is a thread that shows you are
not alone! I for one (even though I don't post often) am glad you felt
comfortabel enough to ask these questions, even if you were squirming
while you typed them out, then wondered out loud if you should hit the
send button )

I was never taught about makeup. I was quite the tomboy growing up -
that hasn't changed! Don't own a dress or skirt. Makeup - I work as a
courtroom clerk in our county's superior court - consists of lightly
applied eyeliner in dark brown, lightly applied auburn pencil to my
reddish/blondish eyebrows, neutral eyeshadow - just a touch, one coat
of dark brown mascara, tinted lip moisturizer. I drink lots of water
and keep a moisturizer on my face in the winter. That's it.

Hair - mine is very thick, naturally wavy/curly. Six weeks ago I went
from half-way down my back to just below the ears, layered. Never have
done perms/color/rollers/blowdry. Wash and dry naturally. I simply
refuse to do more!

Clothes - I am not fazed by current fashion. Working in the
conservative environment I do, daily "uniform" is dark slacks, blazer
type jacket and knit shirt underneath. I don't follow the "dress to the
nines" idea, going for professional-looking comfort instead. I do make
sure I have a long sleeve jacket on at all times the court session is
going, or the public is in the courtroom. Hardly anyone knows about my
tattoos that are visible once the jacket comes off )

As has been mentioned, how you feel about yourself comes acrost
stronger than you'll ever realize. Believe in yourself. Smile inwardly
and outwardly. Know you can do the job you are going for, and convince
the prospective employer. Confidence not agressiveness seems to work.

Bless you for having the courage to post your note to us! That's
confidence that you can build on )

Ginger in CA

Tricia wrote:
No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.

I think most of us would probably say that the teen years is the WHEN
in regards to learning to be a "woman" rather than a "girl". During my
teen years my life was pretty screwed up (mom and stepass getting
divorced, long lost father back in my life, acquiring a stepmother,
living with an abusive alcoholic, etc. PLUS all the usual teen angst
issues). Somewhat as a result (I think) something "short circuited" in
my development in *how* to be a woman rather than a girl, or rather in
some other regards, being an adult vs a child. I didn't have role
models for what I'm facing now in any regard.

Specific to the Woman v Girl thing, I know virtually nothing about make
up, let alone how to properly apply it so I don't look like clown or
tramp. Forget trying to style my hair (although I have a little more
knowledge on that) in anything other than a basic flyaway ponytail --
it's basically not happening (these days it's more like getting me to
do anything other than use a headband 'cause it only makes a stubby
tail). Occassionally I get a perm. I can't manage to use curlers to
save my soul, not even the nice heated ones DH got me a few years ago
at my request. Basically when it comes to being "pretty", "feminine",
and "done up", I friggin' suck.

Part of it is having been raised with the mantra that God blessed me
and I didn't need make up and stuff to mask it all. For the most part,
I believe the philosophy (in the sense that we are the way we are
supposed to be, etc.) and while I tended to leave God out of it,
frequently shared that philosophy with my students (middle schoolers)
when the question inevitably came up why I was one of maybe two or
three female teachers in our building who didn't wear make-up. That
was fine in that enviroment -- I might have gotten more respect from
some of the adults I dealt with if I had been "done up" but I got
through it okay.

I suspect something that is hindering my ability to get hired lately is
the fact that I don't "do" make up and such -- with my baby face (and
unfortunately being noticably overweight), I tend to look younger than
my age, which at times translates for some (I suspect) as flighty or
incompetent. -- or like I just "don't care" (current hormone issues
resulting in pimples doesn't help dispel that myth either).

Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia

Howdy!

Probably for the same reason someone would mention her babies staying
in the hospital for a while after birth,
or the Clogs she wears to ease the pain in her hip,
or any number of other subjects marked Off Topic:
because there's a large crowd of people here
who care about each other. ;-)
...and we like to talk.

(((Irene)))

Ragmop/Sandy -- we often like to talk about quilts! ;-D


On 8/28/06 3:57 PM, in article ,
"IMS" wrote:

I'm curious as to _why_ you think the topic needs discussing _here_.

-Irene

On 28 Aug 2006 08:12:24 -0700, "Tricia"
wrote:

No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.

Howdy!

Catherines has good clothing and great sales:
http://catherines.charmingshoppes.com/pagebuilder/

Meeting people: Tricia! Keep trying.
Getting to know folks at church? Join the volunteers!
When there's a meeting (committee, women's group, groundskeepers, etc.)
show up. If you're easy for people to overlook, they will.
You CAN do this. (Believe me, "they" don't fire volunteers. g)

Ragmop/Sandy--whose quilt guild has 4 monthly small groups meeting
at our church, and a band of quilters who just get together to
gab and sew ;-)

On 8/28/06 8:06 PM, in article
, "Tricia"
wrote:


Julia in MN wrote:
Or if you have a BeautiControl consultant in your area, give her a call.
They also help with wardrobe colors. Department store makeup counters
can also help.

Julia in MN


When I got interested in fabric and learning to sew, I did get books
out of the library for the color selection thing and learned that I am
very definitely a SPRING and am very comfortable with picking
flattering colors for clothes -- that is one that I am fairly well
versed in when seeking business/work clothes. When I "bum around" town
or home I tend to do jeans and any old t-shirt but for work I *can*
dress. The principal where I was teaching called me into her office
one day for a discussion on upgrading my work wardrobe (I was being too
casual in my dress). I went and bought a bunch of things that are very
nice. Some don't fit appropriately anymore due to some weight
gain/redistribution, but some still do. The Sears downstate actually
has a decent ladies/petites department, although none of the pants in
the two piece items fit me (Kate D -- any tips for a newbie on hemming
up tapered slacks?) but I found a nice brand of pants that I could wear
nicely and bought a mixture of colors to fill the gaps.

The nearest dept store is a small JC Penny and this one doesn't have a
make up counter (I went tonight and checked). The Sears outside town
is strictly appliances and manly machines. I'm now starting to look
for others that might be nearby that I dont' know about (I was never
much of a shopper either -- another teen girly thing that just passed
me by).

Thanks Julia,
Tricia

"JustJoanQuilts" wrote in message
oups.com...
I know where you are coming from. I can't count how many times I have
been asked, 'why don't you wear make-up, have you ever . . ., etc.,
etc.' On my wedding day at the reception, my aunt pinned me to the
wall to put a little color on my face. I have always said I don't like
wearing it but in reality, I was just never any good at it so gave up
on it. My mom didn't wear any and told me the same thing about how I
was perfect the way God made me! My dad wouldn't let me get my ears
pierced because God gave me all the holes I needed. So I did it myself
and he never said a word about it. My parents were good parents but
not very good with what I was going through as a teen. Just a phase
and all that. I just want to say that I feel that same disconnect
between being a girl and an adult but it's not just about the make-up,
that's just on the surface. These feelings for me are much deeper and
at the age of 48, I wonder if I will ever feel like or be treated like
a grown up since I don't much look like one and don't really behave
like most adults I know. Life is too short to be so serious and I
refuse to conform. Maybe that is the artist within, whatever it is, I
don't know. But I have to agree with the whole hiring aspect, I don't
look like people think I should and that can be a deterrent in many
aspects of getting the better job!! I could write more but I have to
go to my little peon job so TTFN....


Joan you have almost wrote my story too. My Mom never wore makeup so I
wasn't allowed to wear it. Well, when I turned 16 I was allowed to wear a
very pale eye shadow and mascara but the mascara made my My Grandmother
pierced my ears for my 16th birthday and I had to beg my parents to let me
have that done. I am a cosmetologist and I still don't like wearing makeup.
Granted a lot of my problem with it is sensitive skin. Most makeup
foundations burn my skin so it's just not worth the bother. But I totally
understand about the feelings of disconnect. I often feel the same way. So I
just tell myself that if people don't like my looks then they don't have to
look at me.

Hugs,
Mika