To all Americans

On Jan 20, 6:47*pm, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:04:53 -0800 (PST),
opined:

On Jan 20, 3:23*pm, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:42:22 -0600, Jangchub
opined:

* *America, on the other hand, is

the most powerful nation in the world.

That is debatable now with such a huge deficit.

Is it? *Which country would you suggest is more powerful, keeping in
mind that the EU is not a country.

Elizabeth

I am not speculating who is more powerful but rather suggesting the US
is less powerful these days. *I think when a country is in such poor
financial shape, there is a huge problem. * How long can the war in
Iraq go on without the bleeding become arterial ?

But you didn't say that the US was less powerful. You said that it's
debatable that it is the most powerful (see Victoria's statement). I
think it's a huge problem, too, but we started so far ahead, we've got
a long way down to go to be overtaken.

Elizabeth

On Jan 20, 6:13*pm, Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 1/20/09 6:04 PM, in article
,
" wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:23*pm, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:42:22 -0600, Jangchub
opined:

* *America, on the other hand, is
the most powerful nation in the world.

That is debatable now with such a huge deficit.

Is it? *Which country would you suggest is more powerful, keeping in
mind that the EU is not a country.

Elizabeth

I'd posit China was very powerful in terms of dollars.

But not as powerful as the US in terms of dollars:
GDP (Purchasing power parity) US - $ 13,780,000,000,000
GDP (Purchasing power parity) China - $ 7,099,000,000,000

If you further control for size of population (GDP per capita) the gap
widens significantly: US - $ 45,800; China - $ 5,400

Things get a little more hairy when you look at public debt as a
percentage of GDP - for the US it's 60.80% for China it's only 18.40.
Canada's public debt is a slightly higher percentage of GDP than the
US's by the way. But debt is only really a measure of weakness if one
is unable to pay that debt. And even then, it can be a source of
power - just ask Mexico. All they have to do is threaten to default
on their debt to have the whole world rushing to re-negotiate with
them.

In terms of military power, the US spends 4.03 percent of its GDP on
the military while China spends 4.30% of a much smaller GDP and
actually has more standing obligations (Tibet, the borders with
India, Kazakstan, Mongolia). And there's not a country in the world
with the projection power of the US (the ability to transport
troops). In fact, the EU is not completely capable of projection
without relying on US hardware and intelligence.

Elizabeth
(all numbers from CIA World Factbook, 2007 estimates)

wrote:
On Jan 20, 6:13 pm, Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 1/20/09 6:04 PM, in article
,
" wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:23 pm, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:42:22 -0600, Jangchub
opined:
America, on the other hand, is
the most powerful nation in the world.
That is debatable now with such a huge deficit.
Is it? Which country would you suggest is more powerful, keeping in
mind that the EU is not a country.
Elizabeth
I'd posit China was very powerful in terms of dollars.

But not as powerful as the US in terms of dollars:
GDP (Purchasing power parity) US - $ 13,780,000,000,000
GDP (Purchasing power parity) China - $ 7,099,000,000,000

If you further control for size of population (GDP per capita) the gap
widens significantly: US - $ 45,800; China - $ 5,400

Things get a little more hairy when you look at public debt as a
percentage of GDP - for the US it's 60.80% for China it's only 18.40.
Canada's public debt is a slightly higher percentage of GDP than the
US's by the way. But debt is only really a measure of weakness if one
is unable to pay that debt. And even then, it can be a source of
power - just ask Mexico. All they have to do is threaten to default
on their debt to have the whole world rushing to re-negotiate with
them.

In terms of military power, the US spends 4.03 percent of its GDP on
the military while China spends 4.30% of a much smaller GDP and
actually has more standing obligations (Tibet, the borders with
India, Kazakstan, Mongolia). And there's not a country in the world
with the projection power of the US (the ability to transport
troops). In fact, the EU is not completely capable of projection
without relying on US hardware and intelligence.

Elizabeth
(all numbers from CIA World Factbook, 2007 estimates)

Elizabeth,

don't you think that China is aiming to be the most powerful, or maybe
controlling, power? The USA has pushed our ideal of democracy to many
nations, and many have fallen in line. However there are many powers, I
understand, that "Democracy" as we know it is weakness. They are ruled
by a select few, an oligarchy or whatever. The idea of a democratic
country is anathema to them. I have just finished reading two
books...one by a Western Muslim Dr who went to Saudi for a year, and the
other a novel I am sure you know, about women in Afghanistan.

Our beliefs are totally unacceptable to those in control. It has taken
the US 220 years to be where we are today!!!! In Saudi Arabia, I know a
woman who is totally controlled by her husband, as are her grown children.

I am not too sure I know where I am going with this....I guess to say we
are mostly a respected power, with humanity to those who are without.
However our political and basically fundamental beliefs are not those of
quite a few countries in the world.

China has no problem in using minimally paid labor to churn out cheap
goods. They would NEVER envisage having a democracy such as ours, and
may well be the major power in years to come, just because of that. Life
is unimportant to them

I remember my dear old Dad ( born 1903) saying to me , when the USA were
in the McCarthy era " The communists are not the ones to
fear....ultimately China will be the "enemy"". That was 40-50 years ago.

A wise man, My dad...miss him to this day.

Gillian

On Jan 20, 9:54*pm, Gillian Murray wrote:

Elizabeth,

don't you think that China is aiming to be the most powerful, or maybe
controlling, power?

Sure, I think they're aiming at it. I just don't think that they're
anywhere near achieving it.

I explicitly excluded it because it's not a country, but don't
underestimate the power of the European Union both in terms of
competition with the US and of ability to help keep China at bay.

Elizabeth

I watched the beautiful ceremony yesterday
MAZAL TOV USA
mirjam

On Jan 21, 6:48*am, lucretia borgia
wrote:


That CIA World Factbook, CIA ?

Huh?

On Jan 21, 6:59*am, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:30:03 -0800 (PST),
opined:

On Jan 20, 9:54*pm, Gillian Murray wrote:

Elizabeth,

don't you think that China is aiming to be the most powerful, or maybe
controlling, power?

Sure, I think they're aiming at it. *I just don't think that they're
anywhere near achieving it.

I explicitly excluded it because it's not a country, but don't
underestimate the power of the European Union both in terms of
competition with the US and of ability to help keep China at bay.

Elizabeth

I see problems arising in the EU, big ones.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not powerful, just as problems in the
US don't mean we're not powerful. I see problems in both and
solutions in both.

Elizabeth

lucretia borgia wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:18:04 -0800 (PST),
opined:

On Jan 21, 6:48 am, lucretia borgia
wrote:

That CIA World Factbook, CIA ?
Huh?

What sort of CIA ? Spies ?

Central Intelligence Agency - World Factbook
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney UK
http://claremont.island-blogging.co.uk
"Never ask a man if he is from Yorkshire. If he is he will surely tell
you. If he's not, why embarrass him?"

On 1/19/09 9:02 PM, "Susan Hartman" wrote:

Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:12:07 -0500, Susan Hartman
wrote:

I must say, I was tearing up listening to Pete Seeger sing "This Land Is
Your Land." Remembering what he went through in the 1950s with
blacklisting, and yet he's persevered while the McCarthyites are gone.
He's a shining example of speaking truth to power in so many instances.
THAT really gives me hope that good will overcome darkness and a new day
is coming. And what a great song/sentiment with which to end the concert.

We have a couple of college kids - political science majors - staying
with us (in Baltimore) so they can attend the Inauguration (and
secondarily, scope out grad schools in DC). They're from Michigan, and
they have tix from their Congressman for the Inauguration and a ball.
It's great fun to experience it vicariously through their excitement!

Sue

Yes, definitely during Pete Seeger for sure. The whole concert and
all the pop icons and current day delivery was powerful. I feel like
we are bringing politics into the 21st century and out of the stuffy
backwater war mongering of this current administration.
Victoria

If anyone would like to see the concert, it's available online at
http://www.hbo.com/weareone/

Definitely worth the view, IMHO. It was so extremely well organized - no
"down" time between acts and aurally and visually interesting. I must
say, starting the presidency with a music festival is a great beginning,
in my book! VBG

Sue

It was pretty interesting. On the music topic durng the inaugaration -
sounded like Aretha had a cold, and was trying to sing in the totally wrong
key for her. OTOH, the musical piece arranged by John Williams from Spring
Awakening (a true favorite of mine), and played by Yo-Yo Ma & Itzhak
Perlman, with Gabrielle on piano - and I forgot the clarinetist's name - was
fabulous, and honestly brought tears to my eyes.

Ellice

"ellice" wrote in message
...
On 1/19/09 9:02 PM, "Susan Hartman" wrote:

Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:12:07 -0500, Susan Hartman
wrote:

I must say, I was tearing up listening to Pete Seeger sing "This Land
Is
Your Land." Remembering what he went through in the 1950s with
blacklisting, and yet he's persevered while the McCarthyites are gone.
He's a shining example of speaking truth to power in so many instances.
THAT really gives me hope that good will overcome darkness and a new
day
is coming. And what a great song/sentiment with which to end the
concert.

We have a couple of college kids - political science majors - staying
with us (in Baltimore) so they can attend the Inauguration (and
secondarily, scope out grad schools in DC). They're from Michigan, and
they have tix from their Congressman for the Inauguration and a ball.
It's great fun to experience it vicariously through their excitement!

Sue

Yes, definitely during Pete Seeger for sure. The whole concert and
all the pop icons and current day delivery was powerful. I feel like
we are bringing politics into the 21st century and out of the stuffy
backwater war mongering of this current administration.
Victoria

If anyone would like to see the concert, it's available online at
http://www.hbo.com/weareone/

Definitely worth the view, IMHO. It was so extremely well organized - no
"down" time between acts and aurally and visually interesting. I must
say, starting the presidency with a music festival is a great beginning,
in my book! VBG

Sue

It was pretty interesting. On the music topic durng the inaugaration -
sounded like Aretha had a cold, and was trying to sing in the totally
wrong
key for her. OTOH, the musical piece arranged by John Williams from
Spring
Awakening (a true favorite of mine), and played by Yo-Yo Ma & Itzhak
Perlman, with Gabrielle on piano - and I forgot the clarinetist's name -
was
fabulous, and honestly brought tears to my eyes.

Ellice


I agree. I liked that the group was made up of a wonderful cross section of
our population, different races, different religions and all together as it
should be.

I would love to know what motivated Aretha to wear that hat?