Copyright Question

Hello,
I'm a very long-time lurker, but haven't posted in ages. And I'm sure
this has been covered before, but I'm going to ask anyhow! My
daughter and I have been having a discussion regarding copyright and
books/magazines checked out of the library. Our discussion actually
involves recipes and cooking books/magazines, but it applies to their
cross-stitch books and magazines, too. If you take a cross-stitch
book or magazine out of the library, are you violating copyright laws
by stitching one of the projects? You would have no way of knowing if
someone else stitched it and thereby violating copyright by
unwittingly making a second "copy" of the design.

(In regard to the recipes, if you make a recipe out of the book/
magazine, can you copy down the recipe to make in the future? I have
tried to contact publishers in the past regarding this but get no
reply.)

Also, if you have purchased a chart and stitched it, you are supposed
to destroy or throw it away, correct? Not pass it on to someone
else?

Thanks for entering this discussion again. I don't think fast enough
to compete with my nearly 14-year-old and so appreciate the
information.

Carolyn

Twinsmom ) writes:
Hello,
I'm a very long-time lurker, but haven't posted in ages. And I'm sure
this has been covered before, but I'm going to ask anyhow! My
daughter and I have been having a discussion regarding copyright and
books/magazines checked out of the library. Our discussion actually
involves recipes and cooking books/magazines, but it applies to their
cross-stitch books and magazines, too. If you take a cross-stitch
book or magazine out of the library, are you violating copyright laws
by stitching one of the projects? You would have no way of knowing if
someone else stitched it and thereby violating copyright by
unwittingly making a second "copy" of the design.

(In regard to the recipes, if you make a recipe out of the book/
magazine, can you copy down the recipe to make in the future? I have
tried to contact publishers in the past regarding this but get no
reply.)

Also, if you have purchased a chart and stitched it, you are supposed
to destroy or throw it away, correct? Not pass it on to someone
else?

Thanks for entering this discussion again. I don't think fast enough
to compete with my nearly 14-year-old and so appreciate the
information.

Carolyn

Carolyn, my philosophy hinges on the 11th commandment. Thou shalt no get
found out. As long as the 11th commandment covers you, go for it!!! Jim.

The thing to remember about copyright is that you may not increase the
number of instances of the work in existence without payment to the author.

Libraries buy books, and pay levies that recognize in some way that book
swill circulate among their patrons. So, you borrow a library book, read
it, use the instructions or whatever, then return it. There has been no
change in the number of copies of the book in existence. That is what
libraries are about, and no wrong has been committed. Borrowing is a good
way to audition books, like finding out if a cookbook has enough recipes you
would use to make it worth purchasing.

If you photocopy or scan patterns, recipes etc from borrowed books, you are
bringing more copies of someone's work into being, without that person being
compensated. Some people would see a difference between copying one recipe
from a book of hundred and scanning one designer's only chart in a magazine,
but I don't want to get into "fair use" or whatever. (IMHO, fair use tends
to be meaningful in academia or reviewing, and an excuse too many other
places.)

If you want a pile of recipes from one book, best to buy the book. I have
found that most recipes from magazines get republished on their websites,
and they make it very convenient for you to get them there.

Once you have bought a chart, book or whatever, you can use it as often as
you want, and pass along a book or chart if you want--you are not making
more copies of the book, and the author has been compensated for the one you
bought. However, if you are in commercial production, making multiple
instances from a pattern or design by someone else, you should be seeking
licenseing permission, and paying for it. If you like a pattern, you can
stitch it as often as you want.

It is not the number of stitched objects (or pans of brownies) in being that
violates copyright, it is the number of instances of the book, pattern etc.
If you remember this, you will likely be okay.

And Jim, I am sure, is joking, because morality, surely, is what you do when
no one is looking.

Dawne

On Jan 2, 1:55*pm, "Dawne Peterson" wrote:
The thing to remember about copyright is that you may not increase the
number of instances of the work in existence without payment to the author.

Dawne Peterson wrote:
The thing to remember about copyright is that you may not increase the
number of instances of the work in existence without payment to the author.

Libraries buy books, and pay levies that recognize in some way that book
swill circulate among their patrons. So, you borrow a library book, read
it, use the instructions or whatever, then return it. There has been no
change in the number of copies of the book in existence. That is what
libraries are about, and no wrong has been committed. Borrowing is a good
way to audition books, like finding out if a cookbook has enough recipes you
would use to make it worth purchasing.

If you photocopy or scan patterns, recipes etc from borrowed books, you are
bringing more copies of someone's work into being, without that person being
compensated. Some people would see a difference between copying one recipe
from a book of hundred and scanning one designer's only chart in a magazine,
but I don't want to get into "fair use" or whatever. (IMHO, fair use tends
to be meaningful in academia or reviewing, and an excuse too many other
places.)

If you want a pile of recipes from one book, best to buy the book. I have
found that most recipes from magazines get republished on their websites,
and they make it very convenient for you to get them there.

Once you have bought a chart, book or whatever, you can use it as often as
you want, and pass along a book or chart if you want--you are not making
more copies of the book, and the author has been compensated for the one you
bought. However, if you are in commercial production, making multiple
instances from a pattern or design by someone else, you should be seeking
licenseing permission, and paying for it. If you like a pattern, you can
stitch it as often as you want.

It is not the number of stitched objects (or pans of brownies) in being that
violates copyright, it is the number of instances of the book, pattern etc.
If you remember this, you will likely be okay.

And Jim, I am sure, is joking, because morality, surely, is what you do when
no one is looking.

Dawne




This is a terrific explanation -- thanks for posting it!

Dawne Peterson wrote:

And Jim, I am sure, is joking, because morality, surely, is what you
do when no one is looking.

One of the definitions of "a gentleman" was "someone who always uses a
butter knife even when dining alone".
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney UK
http://claremont.island-blogging.co.uk

"Bruce Fletcher wrote
Dawne Peterson wrote:

And Jim, I am sure, is joking, because morality, surely, is what you do
when no one is looking.

One of the definitions of "a gentleman" was "someone who always uses a
butter knife even when dining alone".
--
Even if he is balancing peas on it??
Dawne

"F.James Cripwell" wrote in message
...
Twinsmom ) writes:
snip
Also, if you have purchased a chart and stitched it, you are supposed
to destroy or throw it away, correct? Not pass it on to someone
else?

Thanks for entering this discussion again. I don't think fast enough
to compete with my nearly 14-year-old and so appreciate the
information.

Carolyn

Carolyn, my philosophy hinges on the 11th commandment. Thou shalt no get
found out. As long as the 11th commandment covers you, go for it!!! Jim.

Love it, Jim! I imagine that speaks for many of the population!!!

Pat

"Twinsmom" wrote
Thank you Dawne. That is much clearer than what I could find
concerning stitching, at least. With the cooking and recipes I think
it becomes a little murkier, especially if you have a recipe you use
out of a book or magazine and someone else says, "oh, I love this
recipe...." Kinda hard to say no, that would be violating copyright!

Yeah, it's difficult territory, especially now that electronic media have
made things like filesharing simple. So we do draw our own lines.

You are right--recipes are funny--there are people who will never ever share
them, and I sometimes heard allegations about certain "ladies" in my
mother's circle who would leave out things when passing on a recipe, so that
yours would never taste as good as theirs. Lots of people have recipe books
filled with clippings and handwritten things that get passed along with no
attribution (my mother's always said things like "Blanche's Almond Squares"
with no indication where Blanche got the recipe--they might really be
Lizzie's Mother-in-law's Almond Squares, she wrote down stuff like that).

I tend to write recipes out in my own words --although there are only so
many ways to say "beat in the eggs"--since I tend to mess around with them,
and describe what I have actually done instead of what the cookbook says.
The main thing about recipe books is that it is the instructions and method
of explaining that are copyright (just think of something like the
instructions in, say Martha Stewart, who is always detailed, as opposed to
some of my old church lady cookbooks which just say combine and bake as
usual), and not the particular ingredients unless something proprietory is
going on, since most recipes have been made many times in many variations.
Dawne

On Jan 3, 1:54*pm, "Dawne Peterson" wrote:
"Twinsmom" *wrote
Thank you Dawne. *That is much clearer than what I could find
concerning stitching, at least. *With the cooking and recipes I think
it becomes a little murkier, especially if you have a recipe you use
out of a book or magazine and someone else says, "oh, I love this
recipe...." Kinda hard to say no, that would be violating copyright!

Yeah, it's difficult territory, especially now that electronic media have
made things like filesharing simple. *So we do draw our own lines.

You are right--recipes are funny--there are people who will never ever share
them, and I sometimes heard allegations about certain "ladies" in my
mother's circle who would leave out things when passing on a recipe, so that
yours would never taste as good as theirs. *Lots of people have recipe books
filled with clippings and handwritten things that get passed along with no
attribution (my mother's always said things like "Blanche's Almond Squares"
with no indication where Blanche got the recipe--they might really be
Lizzie's Mother-in-law's Almond Squares, she wrote down stuff like that).

I tend to write recipes out in my own words --although there are only so
many ways to say "beat in the eggs"--since I tend to mess around with them,
and describe what I have actually done instead of what the cookbook says.
The main thing about recipe books is that it is the instructions and method
of explaining that are copyright (just think of something like the
instructions in, say Martha Stewart, who is always detailed, as opposed to
some of my old church lady cookbooks which just say combine and bake as
usual), and not the particular ingredients unless something proprietory is
going on, since most recipes have been made many times in many variations..
Dawne

I tend to be as short as possible when writing down recipes, so I
guess that would be okay. I also try to make sure I note where I got
the recipe, ie, ABC Magazine, December 2008, to at least give credit
when I can. That way if someone asks where did I get it, I can start
my reply with, for example, "oh, The Columbus Dispatch in the recipe
section, I found it online" and then change the subject. ;-)