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  #11  
Old February 17th 05, 03:47 PM
Bryan
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I would actually strongly suggest NOT selling "as cheaply as you can live
with". As Dennis points out, it's about perceived value, not cost. If
you're TOO cheap, people will shun your work as being of poor quality...even
if every piece is a masterwork. An electrician charging $10 an hour will
get less customers than an electrician charging the going rate. So price
similar work (especially in your area) and go from there.

Yes, give good value to your customers, but NO don't cheat yourself and
devalue your work.

Bryan "just my two cents" Paschke
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  #12  
Old February 17th 05, 09:24 PM
Mike Firth
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I'll go further. Unless you can really include everything "you can live
with" probably with the advice of a financial advisor, you will end up
losing a lot taking this route. I ran my business out of my home for
several years and found that with careful and legal choices, I could lower
my reported income quite low, so I got to pay lower income and social
security taxes while including utilities and repairs on the building in my
costs. That would have been fine, if I had been making enough money to have
significant savings put in the bank or elsewhere and if I had allocated
money for training (probably deductable, in hindsight), neither of which I
did, so after a stretch of self-employment, I had coasted to the bottom of
heap in terms of up-to-date skills and had no money out there, even in SS,
to retire on.
If you can't price to make the money you really need, it will hurt in the
long run as well as the short. I also will note that I had no health
insurance during that time.

--
Mike Firth
Hot Glass Bits Furnace Working Website
http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/hotbit47.htm Latest notes

"Bryan" wrote in message
...
I would actually strongly suggest NOT selling "as cheaply as you can live
with". As Dennis points out, it's about perceived value, not cost. If
you're TOO cheap, people will shun your work as being of poor
quality...even
if every piece is a masterwork. An electrician charging $10 an hour will
get less customers than an electrician charging the going rate. So price
similar work (especially in your area) and go from there.

Yes, give good value to your customers, but NO don't cheat yourself and
devalue your work.

Bryan "just my two cents" Paschke



  #13  
Old February 18th 05, 12:53 AM
Kalera Stratton
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Posts: n/a
Default



Mike Firth wrote:
I'll go further. Unless you can really include everything "you can live
with" probably with the advice of a financial advisor, you will end up
losing a lot taking this route. I ran my business out of my home for
several years and found that with careful and legal choices, I could lower
my reported income quite low, so I got to pay lower income and social
security taxes while including utilities and repairs on the building in my
costs. That would have been fine, if I had been making enough money to have
significant savings put in the bank or elsewhere and if I had allocated
money for training (probably deductable, in hindsight), neither of which I
did, so after a stretch of self-employment, I had coasted to the bottom of
heap in terms of up-to-date skills and had no money out there, even in SS,
to retire on.
If you can't price to make the money you really need, it will hurt in the
long run as well as the short. I also will note that I had no health
insurance during that time.


I'm in agreement on this. It's one thing if you're starting out as a
beginner and selling beginner's work, but if you're experienced and
offering a professional product, you should price accordingly,
especially if you're fully self-employed.

Being self-employed is very expensive, and lacks a lot of the safety net
that is built into outside employment. You have to be your own safety
net to keep the first small bump in the road from putting you out of
business.

A consideration is that if you are pricing below market value, you will
build a clientele of people who are looking to pay below market value.
When your prices increase, odds are high that you will lose that
clientele. It's a lot better to start with clients who are looking to
pay what you're worth, and increase your prices as your skills improve,
to keep up with your market value. Build the client base you want from
the start; those customers will stay with you, and you will gain more of
the kind of clients you want through their word-of-mouth. Your business
will get a lot farther based on the word-of-mouth being "he's good"
than it will on "he's cheap".
--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
  #14  
Old February 28th 05, 03:46 PM
AL69
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Kalera Stratton" ha scritto nel messaggio
...


Mike Firth wrote:
I'll go further. Unless you can really include everything "you can

live
with" probably with the advice of a financial advisor, you will end up
losing a lot taking this route. I ran my business out of my home for
several years and found that with careful and legal choices, I could

lower
my reported income quite low, so I got to pay lower income and social
security taxes while including utilities and repairs on the building in

my
costs. That would have been fine, if I had been making enough money to

have
significant savings put in the bank or elsewhere and if I had allocated
money for training (probably deductable, in hindsight), neither of which

I
did, so after a stretch of self-employment, I had coasted to the bottom

of
heap in terms of up-to-date skills and had no money out there, even in

SS,
to retire on.
If you can't price to make the money you really need, it will hurt in

the
long run as well as the short. I also will note that I had no health
insurance during that time.


I'm in agreement on this. It's one thing if you're starting out as a
beginner and selling beginner's work, but if you're experienced and
offering a professional product, you should price accordingly,
especially if you're fully self-employed.

Being self-employed is very expensive, and lacks a lot of the safety net
that is built into outside employment. You have to be your own safety
net to keep the first small bump in the road from putting you out of
business.

A consideration is that if you are pricing below market value, you will
build a clientele of people who are looking to pay below market value.
When your prices increase, odds are high that you will lose that
clientele. It's a lot better to start with clients who are looking to
pay what you're worth, and increase your prices as your skills improve,
to keep up with your market value. Build the client base you want from
the start; those customers will stay with you, and you will gain more of
the kind of clients you want through their word-of-mouth. Your business
will get a lot farther based on the word-of-mouth being "he's good"
than it will on "he's cheap".
--
-Kalera


I started as glass collector, than I opened a glass gallery and sometimes I
make some lampworks, so I was in the 3 different position: consumer,
buyer/reseller, sometime producer.
I think that it is always a mistake to sell too cheap. It is a wrong start.
Try to find the market-price range that you consider correct for the quality
and the level of your works. Consider also the number of pieces that you
want to sell (higher the number lower the price).
Than in that price range fix you pricing on the middle; if your marketing
activity will be good and you will have a positive feedback from the market
push the prices a little bit higher (a 5%), if not keep them stable or apply
a discount for quantity, advanced payments, etc.
As buyer/reseller I really don't like to work with craftmen who change or
discount their prices too much; right and stable pricing allows a long term
cooperation with galleries, shops, customers.

P.S. Sorry for my english, but this is not my mother language

Alex
_________________
www.artofvenice.com
Murano glass gallery. Contemporary and classic venetian glass.




  #15  
Old February 28th 05, 04:32 PM
Kalera Stratton
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Posts: n/a
Default



AL69 wrote:

I started as glass collector, than I opened a glass gallery and sometimes I
make some lampworks, so I was in the 3 different position: consumer,
buyer/reseller, sometime producer.
I think that it is always a mistake to sell too cheap. It is a wrong start.
Try to find the market-price range that you consider correct for the quality
and the level of your works. Consider also the number of pieces that you
want to sell (higher the number lower the price).
Than in that price range fix you pricing on the middle; if your marketing
activity will be good and you will have a positive feedback from the market
push the prices a little bit higher (a 5%), if not keep them stable or apply
a discount for quantity, advanced payments, etc.
As buyer/reseller I really don't like to work with craftmen who change or
discount their prices too much; right and stable pricing allows a long term
cooperation with galleries, shops, customers.

P.S. Sorry for my english, but this is not my mother language

Alex
_________________
www.artofvenice.com
Murano glass gallery. Contemporary and classic venetian glass.


Well-said, Alex. I have known a few craftspeople who ended up out of
business by selling too cheaply, though fortunately most of them learned
from their first mistake and were able to make a go of it a second time,
after going back to a regular job for a while and getting on their feet
again.

Other mistakes I've seen people make is not putting enough into
advertising/promoting their studio, and not hiring help when the
workload warrants it. I also know one person who hires the help but
doesn't pay enough to get committed, skilled, long-term employees; he
thinks he's saving money but it's costing him in lost productivity and
high turnover. He can afford good assistants but won't hire them;
ironic, really.

--
-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
  #16  
Old March 1st 05, 06:53 PM
AL69
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Kalera Stratton" ha scritto nel messaggio
...


AL69 wrote:

(...).
I think that it is always a mistake to sell too cheap. It is a wrong

start.
Try to find the market-price range that you consider correct for the

quality
and the level of your works. Consider also the number of pieces that you
want to sell (higher the number lower the price).
Than in that price range fix you pricing on the middle; if your

marketing
activity will be good and you will have a positive feedback from the

market
push the prices a little bit higher (a 5%), if not keep them stable or

apply
a discount for quantity, advanced payments, etc.
As buyer/reseller I really don't like to work with craftmen who change

or
discount their prices too much; right and stable pricing allows a long

term
cooperation with galleries, shops, customers.(...)


(...)I have known a few craftspeople who ended up out of
business by selling too cheaply, though fortunately most of them learned
from their first mistake and were able to make a go of it a second time,
after going back to a regular job for a while and getting on their feet
again.
(...)

-Kalera



And this kind of businness policy push pricing pressure also to the other
producers. Obviously the lower ws prices will be lower prices also for the
retail sales and as in chain or a domino the art glass maket will be
damaged.
It happens in Venice town (in Murano is different, but the story of the
factory tours is too long for this post ) where with too many shops of cheap
(ugly) glass, often imported, sold for few US$, it is very harder to sell
glass of gallery quality (and gallery prices)

Alex
www.artofvenice.com
Murano glass gallery. Contemporary and classic venetian glass.


 




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