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?? For Other Pro Sewers Discounts?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 20th 03, 12:41 AM
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Default ?? For Other Pro Sewers Discounts?


I mentioned that I will be working with an interior designer. The
question came up about giving discounts on large orders--say,
whole-house refurbishment, where the designer's bill total would be in
the $15,000 to $20,000 range. The idea is to make a 'big' client
happy--keeping the possible sale by offering the discount. The
problem--for me--is that she mentioned a 20% discount, with 10% taken
from her cut, and the other 10% from my labor charges.
Two things to keep in mind: This will be a total which combines the
decorator's usual markups--on fabrics, notions, _and_ on the labor which
I do.
From my business training, I realize that 20% is a HUGE discount,
when some businesses survive on a 2% profit margin.
I am not at all anxious to offer discounts on custom labor, as it
attracts the sort of clientele which one usually does not
want--parsimonious and argumentative.
I don't know if she realizes what an...enclave... this town can be,
and that word of a bargain travels fast. I have visions of her having to
offer discounts just to keep most of her future clients.
I realize that thought is putting the cart before the horse, so I
need to know: Is a 20% discount outrageous in this context? Should I be
expected to soak up half of it? I don't want to be unreasonable; I
wasn't ready for this issue when it arose during the interview, but I
did tell her almost exactly what I have said above.
I do know that she has several other out-sources for doing the
sewing, (any decorator should), and I would like to establish a good
relationship with her, and have some of the plummy jobs fall into my
blindhemming lap.
Regular work is a must, and there would certainly be work.
Yet, my prices are reasonable, not top scale, and I do not want to
wind up feeling like I am working for far less than I should be. On a
$20,000.00 job... and, after her markups, I may be getting--what-- a $6
or $7,000 payment for labor? Maybe way less? I may be grossly
over-estimating what my work would bring as a percentage. I have no idea
what % of this will be for her design advice and assorted markups. $600
to $700.00 is a big bite of that guessed $6,000.00, though. (They call
it 'labor' charges for a reason.)
I'll have to admit I will do 5% if push comes to shove, but 10% is
too much, IMHO.
Any pro advice? Am I cutting off my nose?
Cea

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  #2  
Old October 20th 03, 01:11 AM
Sew-Sew Lady
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My first instinct in this situation is to "overprice" yourself a bit, so
that after the discount, you will still receive your usual fees.

I think of it like the "MSRP" ---manufacture's suggested retail price---
that one sees listed on everything from automobiles to bread. It usually
makes the item look like a bargain, because few stores actually sell items
for the msrp, always at least a little discount.


wrote in message
...

I mentioned that I will be working with an interior designer. The
question came up about giving discounts on large orders--say,
whole-house refurbishment, where the designer's bill total would be in
the $15,000 to $20,000 range. The idea is to make a 'big' client
happy--keeping the possible sale by offering the discount. The
problem--for me--is that she mentioned a 20% discount, with 10% taken
from her cut, and the other 10% from my labor charges.
Two things to keep in mind: This will be a total which combines the
decorator's usual markups--on fabrics, notions, _and_ on the labor which
I do.
From my business training, I realize that 20% is a HUGE discount,
when some businesses survive on a 2% profit margin.
I am not at all anxious to offer discounts on custom labor, as it
attracts the sort of clientele which one usually does not
want--parsimonious and argumentative.
I don't know if she realizes what an...enclave... this town can be,
and that word of a bargain travels fast. I have visions of her having to
offer discounts just to keep most of her future clients.
I realize that thought is putting the cart before the horse, so I
need to know: Is a 20% discount outrageous in this context? Should I be
expected to soak up half of it? I don't want to be unreasonable; I
wasn't ready for this issue when it arose during the interview, but I
did tell her almost exactly what I have said above.
I do know that she has several other out-sources for doing the
sewing, (any decorator should), and I would like to establish a good
relationship with her, and have some of the plummy jobs fall into my
blindhemming lap.
Regular work is a must, and there would certainly be work.
Yet, my prices are reasonable, not top scale, and I do not want to
wind up feeling like I am working for far less than I should be. On a
$20,000.00 job... and, after her markups, I may be getting--what-- a $6
or $7,000 payment for labor? Maybe way less? I may be grossly
over-estimating what my work would bring as a percentage. I have no idea
what % of this will be for her design advice and assorted markups. $600
to $700.00 is a big bite of that guessed $6,000.00, though. (They call
it 'labor' charges for a reason.)
I'll have to admit I will do 5% if push comes to shove, but 10% is
too much, IMHO.
Any pro advice? Am I cutting off my nose?
Cea



  #3  
Old October 20th 03, 01:26 AM
Valkyrie
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My very, narrow personal opinion.......yanking 20% off your sitting at the
machine, standing at the table and laboring is a lot to ask of you. Does she
pay for the fabric or is that coming from you? I got into it years ago when
I was sewing for a dress shop. They would have a 30% off sale. I told her
she could take 30% off all the fabric she wanted to sell before it got to me
but my labor and notions didn't get cut. If she wanted to still take a full
30% of the finished garment price SHE would have to figure out where it was
come from but I was getting 100% of my labor paid for. There were 4 other
seamstresses who went along with the 30% cut and they ended sewing for
peanuts when she had the sales. She would cut back what she gave me because
I wouldn't take the cut and she had to absorb that from her profit. What it
amounted to, I was making just about the same as the gals who had the extra
work from sales but they were doing that much more for so much less.

I'm pretty hard nosed about what my time is worth and I seldom work from the
goodness of my heart when there's business involved. Don't get me wrong, I
have sewn many, many things for absolutely free because I wanted to, but it
had nothing to do with business. And, if you do it once, there is no going
back. The problem with doing this just establish a foothold, you will be
always expected to do it because you did once. It like people who start
sewing and decide they will keep their price low to gain early business, but
if they raise their price they loose those who were there because it was
cheap. Not everyone looks else where but many will. They are after the price
and not your skill, talent and expertise.

If a shop actually has seamstresses on the payroll they don't have their
salaries cut if there is a sale. A department store doesn't cut the salary
of staff when they have a sale. This is just something to think about. I
don't know if I answered what you wanted to know or not, Cea. Hope it helps
maybe a little to make your decision.

Val

wrote in message
...

I mentioned that I will be working with an interior designer. The
question came up about giving discounts on large orders--say,
whole-house refurbishment, where the designer's bill total would be in
the $15,000 to $20,000 range. The idea is to make a 'big' client
happy--keeping the possible sale by offering the discount. The
problem--for me--is that she mentioned a 20% discount, with 10% taken
from her cut, and the other 10% from my labor charges.
Two things to keep in mind: This will be a total which combines the
decorator's usual markups--on fabrics, notions, _and_ on the labor which
I do.
From my business training, I realize that 20% is a HUGE discount,
when some businesses survive on a 2% profit margin.
I am not at all anxious to offer discounts on custom labor, as it
attracts the sort of clientele which one usually does not
want--parsimonious and argumentative.
I don't know if she realizes what an...enclave... this town can be,
and that word of a bargain travels fast. I have visions of her having to
offer discounts just to keep most of her future clients.
I realize that thought is putting the cart before the horse, so I
need to know: Is a 20% discount outrageous in this context? Should I be
expected to soak up half of it? I don't want to be unreasonable; I
wasn't ready for this issue when it arose during the interview, but I
did tell her almost exactly what I have said above.
I do know that she has several other out-sources for doing the
sewing, (any decorator should), and I would like to establish a good
relationship with her, and have some of the plummy jobs fall into my
blindhemming lap.
Regular work is a must, and there would certainly be work.
Yet, my prices are reasonable, not top scale, and I do not want to
wind up feeling like I am working for far less than I should be. On a
$20,000.00 job... and, after her markups, I may be getting--what-- a $6
or $7,000 payment for labor? Maybe way less? I may be grossly
over-estimating what my work would bring as a percentage. I have no idea
what % of this will be for her design advice and assorted markups. $600
to $700.00 is a big bite of that guessed $6,000.00, though. (They call
it 'labor' charges for a reason.)
I'll have to admit I will do 5% if push comes to shove, but 10% is
too much, IMHO.
Any pro advice? Am I cutting off my nose?
Cea



  #4  
Old October 20th 03, 07:41 AM
Cynthia Spilsted
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Posts: n/a
Default

Don't walk away - run! No business person offers a discount to new clients
and then asks their subcontractor (that's what you will be) to foot part of
the incentive. That would be like a grocery store wanting to attract
customers (and beat out the competition) by demanding that their suppliers
lower the cost of goods so that they can have a sale. Sounds silly, doesn't
it?! She should only be reducing her price by the amount of profit margin
she is willing to sacrifice (in this case, 10%).
Cynthia
wrote in message
...

I mentioned that I will be working with an interior designer. The
question came up about giving discounts on large orders--say,
whole-house refurbishment, where the designer's bill total would be in
the $15,000 to $20,000 range. The idea is to make a 'big' client
happy--keeping the possible sale by offering the discount. The
problem--for me--is that she mentioned a 20% discount, with 10% taken
from her cut, and the other 10% from my labor charges.
Two things to keep in mind: This will be a total which combines the
decorator's usual markups--on fabrics, notions, _and_ on the labor which
I do.
From my business training, I realize that 20% is a HUGE discount,
when some businesses survive on a 2% profit margin.
I am not at all anxious to offer discounts on custom labor, as it
attracts the sort of clientele which one usually does not
want--parsimonious and argumentative.
I don't know if she realizes what an...enclave... this town can be,
and that word of a bargain travels fast. I have visions of her having to
offer discounts just to keep most of her future clients.
I realize that thought is putting the cart before the horse, so I
need to know: Is a 20% discount outrageous in this context? Should I be
expected to soak up half of it? I don't want to be unreasonable; I
wasn't ready for this issue when it arose during the interview, but I
did tell her almost exactly what I have said above.
I do know that she has several other out-sources for doing the
sewing, (any decorator should), and I would like to establish a good
relationship with her, and have some of the plummy jobs fall into my
blindhemming lap.
Regular work is a must, and there would certainly be work.
Yet, my prices are reasonable, not top scale, and I do not want to
wind up feeling like I am working for far less than I should be. On a
$20,000.00 job... and, after her markups, I may be getting--what-- a $6
or $7,000 payment for labor? Maybe way less? I may be grossly
over-estimating what my work would bring as a percentage. I have no idea
what % of this will be for her design advice and assorted markups. $600
to $700.00 is a big bite of that guessed $6,000.00, though. (They call
it 'labor' charges for a reason.)
I'll have to admit I will do 5% if push comes to shove, but 10% is
too much, IMHO.
Any pro advice? Am I cutting off my nose?
Cea



  #5  
Old October 20th 03, 09:39 AM
Sally Holmes
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Posts: n/a
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wrote in message
...

I mentioned that I will be working with an interior designer. The
question came up about giving discounts on large orders--say,
whole-house refurbishment, where the designer's bill total would be
in the $15,000 to $20,000 range. The idea is to make a 'big' client
happy--keeping the possible sale by offering the discount. The
problem--for me--is that she mentioned a 20% discount, with 10% taken
from her cut, and the other 10% from my labor charges.


That's only fair if her cut is the same size as yours. Suppose (ridiculous
example) the total was 100k, you got 15k and she got 30k.

10% each of 100 leaves you with 5 and her with 20. Is that what she's
proposing? She'd have a lot less incentive than you to keep the discount
low.

My feeling is that she should regard you as more of a "fixed cost", like the
cost of the fabric.

Sally H


  #6  
Old October 20th 03, 12:07 PM
Joy Hardie
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Cea.
I aggree with all of the above advice already given. Hold firm.
It is a big job, and you will regret working on it for peanuts as the
task grinds long and hard. It rather reminds me of sewing for these
ice skaters......they will put in a bunch of expensive dress orders
(and my prices are VERY reasonable) and then they will say, "Oh, this
one is just to PRACTICE in." They act like it should be cheaper
because it isn't a competition dress. Well, I base my product on cost
of materials and labour time.....NOT what they choose to do in it.
Some people will never understand the pricing, so it is better to set
it, sew it and if the designer wants to offer her "good client
discount" she can take it from her own kitty.
Good Luck.
Joy

  #7  
Old October 20th 03, 12:23 PM
SewStorm
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Default

Any pro advice? Am I cutting off my nose?

Cea, this is the conundrum of having success--sometimes it causes this kind of
imbalance in what you need to earn, vs. keeping the kind of business that you
want. You are not the first person to find themselves in this situation.

There used to be, and probably still is, a very good group of folks who have a
daily email list just for home dec sewing companies. I can't think of the name
of it, but it was something like SewPros, only it had the work Dec in it. Not
much to go on, but maybe you can do a search.

You can also get loads of information on this by accessing Kitty Stein's
website. Here's a link to her index of articles, all worthwhile:

http://www.workroomconcepts.com/articles.htm

Kitty also has links to other sites, including the DWC Magazine site, which
Kitty writes for. It's an association magazine, and you might consider getting
it, if you're getting into home dec this deeply.

I'm a little out of touch with this particular industry, or I'd offer more
up-to-date advice. Since I've been hanging back for the last year and a half,
riding herd on one more teenager here, I haven't kept in contact with as many
folks as I did before. But hope this helps!

Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

  #8  
Old October 20th 03, 12:25 PM
SewStorm
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Does she
pay for the fabric or is that coming from you?


The problem that Cea mentions is that the customer is paying for the fabric,
and the designer is marking it up. So a 20% discount of the fabric is not as
much skin off the designer's nose as the same discount would be off Cea's
service price.

You get the picture? It's not fair, really, for the designer to ask this, IMO.
Apparently, she doesn't "get" the whole concept of making a profit--unless it's
the concept of herself making one.

Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati

  #9  
Old October 20th 03, 02:28 PM
hfw
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Don't do it! The discount should not come off your labor unless it's YOUR
business and YOU'RE the one who's offering it. And I'd be very leery of
doing even that. I was a self-employed graphic designer for 15 years and I
can tell you that my customers got nicer and easier to work with as my
prices went up. I realize it's a different industry, but clients seeking
bargains are almost always headaches. You may not be able to control what
the designer does for pricing, but you don't have to let it come out of your
pocket. When I worked with subcontractors, they *always got their full
price, regardless of what the client paid.

--Heidi


  #10  
Old October 20th 03, 03:14 PM
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?? For Other Pro Sewers Discounts?

(SewStorm)
"Does she pay for the fabric or is that coming from you?"
The problem that Cea mentions is that the customer is paying for the
fabric, and the designer is marking it up. So a 20% discount of the
fabric is not as much skin off the designer's nose as the same discount
would be off Cea's service price.
---
Cea replies:
Exactly! She will be getting a huge markup on fabrics, (if she stays
true to the usual interior dec practice), and also a markup on my labor
costs, in addition to her design fees and whatever else the client buys
from her stock of lamps, home dec items, etc. I don't fault her for
markups; overhead can be brutal, especially when one is just starting in
business.
---
You get the picture? It's not fair, really, for the designer to ask
this, IMO. Apparently, she doesn't "get" the whole concept of making a
profit--unless it's the concept of herself making one.
Karen Maslowski in Cincinnati
---
Well, working with her really appeals to me on several levels. One is
volume of work, another is that she is oddly without gratuitous ego, in
a business which attracts snobs and bad attitudes--prima donnas all
around. She's well-mannered, in the true sense of manners, and more than
willing to admit when she makes a mistake. I think she will be a
pleasure to work with, once we get the issue of discounts settled.
During our interview, the first thing she addressed was payments--my
main issue, and it is agreed that I will be paid upon delivery of the
product. I was prepared to be adamant on this, but she had the right
answer. : )
Actually, she thinks it is settled, as I firmly voiced my opinion of
giving discounts. She indicated that she would absorb the discount, but
something in the way she nodded made me think perhaps those plummy jobs
might go to another out-source, instead of to my workroom.
It's not actually settled, though, as I plan to work my persuasive
magic, and encourage her not to give over a 10% discount, since it will
come from her pocket. If she wants to give 20%, I think she should give
it on one particular thing; say, the fabric. Then she could build a
profit margin into her prices.
I got home, though, and started mulling it over, and realized exactly
how much I don't know about the ins and outs of interior design, and
needed reassurance that I wasn't being too hard-headed, cutting off my
nose to spite my wallet. It occurred to me that perhaps this was a
standard industry practice--had I known, I would indeed have revised the
prices on the price list I left with her. I did indicate that, if I am
too low priced by far than other interior dec labor, that I would be
revising the price list, so that is covered.
Thanks for the addresses, Karen. I see that have homework to do.
I want to thank all of you for encouraging me to stand firm. You've
reinforced my gut feelings. I'd hate to begin a business relationship
feeling as if my work was going to be undervalued.
(In a oyster, that irritant would make a pearl.)
Many thanks to everyone.
Cea

 




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