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#1
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Gold Plating
My fork tines are again beginning to show the blueing we previously
discussed so I guess my quick fix with the pickle was just a flash in the pan. My next attempt will be to "temper" the tines. I am thinking just enough heat to almost get to the "straw color" and then cool. Quench or air cool will have to be determined. On a related topic and the subject of this posting... All of my jewelery that I have gold plated suffer from tarnish of the silver bleed through and need regular polishing to look good. My gold plating has been the dip and wear, acid hobby method. Works great and looks great for a while but the solution has a very short shelf life. Once the bottle is opened even if only half is used, it becomes useless within a couple of months. I even tried using a piece of sacrificial gold as anode/cathode and this did not help. So I am thinking of making a leap into the professional method and need to do some research on the subject but the basic question is, and I think I asked this already but that was a long time ago.... is this something that one ought to be doing in the home. We read often enough about people dieing in plating plants. js |
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#2
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Gold Plating
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:34:17 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling
wrote: My fork tines are again beginning to show the blueing we previously discussed so I guess my quick fix with the pickle was just a flash in the pan. As I told you beforfe, tarnishing is normal behavior for sterling silver. That the tines tarnish more quickly than the handles would simply be due to your casting process leaving a thicker layer of fine silver on the cast surface. And the areas between the tines, which you say tarnish faster, are simply subject to less abrasion in use, which normally keeps silver which is used, reasonably clean. Pickle removes oxides, not sulphides, which is tarnish. So it would do little good. That it helped at all would be merely a quick surface effect, not anything affecting the basic alloy. I'm surprised it helped at all. My next attempt will be to "temper" the tines. I am thinking just enough heat to almost get to the "straw color" and then cool. Quench or air cool will have to be determined. Jack, Jack, Jack. Don't confuse silver with steel. With steel, heating to these temperatures clearely affects the structure of the metal and it's hardness. With silver, there is no such effect. The only thing you'll do is cause a little oxidation of the surface (which pickle WILL take off again). And get it over about 750 degrees and you'll start to loose the work hardened temper you got from forging it in the first place. Once lost, it's gone. You can get some hardening by heat treating the metal to about 650 to 700F for a half hour, then quenching, but it's not the same as work hardening, and unless you do it in an atmosphere controllled environment (which would include proper flux coating with anti fire scale agents like Prips flux, or others) , you also then get fire scale and fire stain, both of which willl make your problems worse, not better. As I suggested before, the behavior of these things is consistant with the sort of layered surface you get with a lack of control of fire scale and fire stain in the original making of these. Your fix is simply to have them thoroughly silver plated. Use a professional plating firm, so as to get a good thick enough coating. The plated fine silver will be about as resistant to tarnish as any silver surface could be. If you want better, get them gold plated. Same deal. Use a pro. Thin gold plating may look good, but it's too thin to give durability of a resistance to tarnish or fading. I can suggest a suitable firm if you like. On a related topic and the subject of this posting... All of my jewelery that I have gold plated suffer from tarnish of the silver bleed through and need regular polishing to look good. And of course, each time you repolish it, the gold gets yet a little bit thinner too, which makes the situation worse. This is why, done right, gold is applied over a barrier underplate, usually of nickle, which itself is usually applied over a copper underplate. That's in part so you can tell when the nickle layer is thick enough by the color. And the copper adheres to the silver better than nickle directly does. My gold plating has been the dip and wear, acid hobby method. Works great and looks great for a while but the solution has a very short shelf life. Once the bottle is opened even if only half is used, it becomes useless within a couple of months. I even tried using a piece of sacrificial gold as anode/cathode and this did not help. It wouldn't. The gold anode is only sacrificial in a cyanide based solution. In other types, it's merely inert. The dip and plate electroless solutions put an extremely thin layer on. Only a few molecules thick. Once the layer is thick enough so the underlying silver can no longer react electrochemically with the solution, the plating stops. This is why it doesn't last very long. And you're right, the chemistry of those baths is not stable if any oxygen is available. So I am thinking of making a leap into the professional method and need to do some research on the subject but the basic question is, and I think I asked this already but that was a long time ago.... is this something that one ought to be doing in the home. We read often enough about people dieing in plating plants. If you are not comfortable with working with cyanide based plating baths in your home shop, then don't. But unless you've got children or pets who might not know to keep away, it's potentially possible for you to learn to work with the stuff safely. Not recommended officially, of course, but certainly possible. My own shop is in my basement. I've used cyanide baths on occasion. I know what I'm doing with them, so I consider myself safe with them. Whether you are, depends on you. The cyanide baths are far superior to chloride based baths in terms of quality of the plated layer, thickness, color, and shelf life of the bath. Most pro platers use them for these reasons. But you can indeed get non-cyanide based baths. These are acid, based on gold chlorides, rather than cyanides, so they are much safer to use. Used with a power source, these are not like your electroless bath at all, and are capable of professional level plating results. They're a bit more sensative to improper conditions (temp, voltage, etc), but many people have used them with satisfactory results. Rio Grande, among other suppliers, carries a good line of such plating baths which would be safe for a home shop. As I noted, if you want really good gold plating over silver, also equip yourself with copper and bright nickle baths. Then you'll need the rest, DC power supply, hot plates, thermometers, electrocleaning solution, beakers, distilled water, etc. It's really not difficult to do. But for your forks, I'd still suggest sending them to a pro. They can do without the underplates (so no possiblity of nickle sensativity) by putting on a thick enough layer of gold, using a bath that produces a dense, bright, non-porous layer, so you won't get copper or silver migrating through a thin electroplate to tarnish. Such a firm could do the same with fine silver if you wish that instead. Peter |
#3
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Gold Plating
On Mar 24, 4:04=A0am, Peter W. Rowe
wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:34:17 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Jack Schmidling wrote: My fork tines are again beginning to show the blueing we previously discussed so I guess my quick fix with the pickle was just a flash in the pan. As I told you beforfe, tarnishing is normal behavior for sterling silver. That the tines tarnish more quickly than the handles would simply be due to your casting process leaving a thicker layer of fine silver on the cast surface. And the areas between the tines, which you say tarnish faster, are simply subject to less abrasion in use, which normally keeps silver which is used, reasonably clean. Pickle removes oxides, not sulphides, which is tarnish. So it would do little good. That it helped at all would be merely a quick surface effect, not anything affecting the basic alloy. I'm surprised it helped at all. My next attempt will be to "temper" the tines. I am thinking just enough heat to almost get to the "straw color" and then cool. Quench or air cool will have to be determined. Jack, Jack, Jack. Don't confuse silver with steel. With steel, heating to these temperatures clearely affects the structure of the metal and it's hardness. With silver, there is no such effect. The only thing you'll do is cause a little oxidation of the surface (which pickle WILL take off again). And get it over about 750 degrees and you'll start to loose the work hardened temper you got from forging it in the first place. Once lost, it's gone. You can get some hardening by heat treating the metal to about 650 to 700F for a half hour, then quenching, but it's not the same as work hardening, and unless you do it in an atmosphere controllled environment (which would include proper flux coating with anti fire scale agents like Prips flux, or others) , you also then get fire scale and fire stain, both of which willl make your problems worse, not better. As I suggested before, the behavior of these things is consistant with the sort of layered surface you get with a lack of control of fire scale and fire stain in the original making of these. Your fix is simply to have them thoroughly silver plated. Use a professional plating firm, so as to get a good thick enough coating. The plated fine silver will be about as resistant to tarnish as any silver surface could be. If you want better, get them gold plated. Same deal. Use a pro. Thin gold plating may look good, but it's too thin to give durability of a resistance to tarnish or fading. I can suggest a suitable firm if you like. On a related topic and the subject of this posting... All of my jewelery that I have gold plated suffer from tarnish of the silver bleed through and need regular polishing to look good. And of course, each time you repolish it, the gold gets yet a little bit thinner too, which makes the situation worse. This is why, done right, gold is applied over a barrier underplate, usually of nickle, which itself is usually applied over a copper underplate. That's in part so you can tell when the nickle layer is thick enough by the color. And the copper adheres to the silver better than nickle directly does. My gold plating has been the dip and wear, acid hobby method. Works great and looks great for a while but the solution has a very short shelf life. Once the bottle is opened even if only half is used, it becomes useless within a couple of months. I even tried using a piece of sacrificial gold as anode/cathode and this did not help. It wouldn't. The gold anode is only sacrificial in a cyanide based solution. In other types, it's merely inert. The dip and plate electroless solutions put an extremely thin layer on. Only a few molecules thick. Once the layer is thick enough so the underlying silver can no longer react electrochemically with the solution, the plating stops. This is why it doesn't last very long. And you're right, the chemistry of those baths is not stable if any oxygen is available. So I am thinking of making a leap into the professional method and need to do some research on the subject but the basic question is, and I think I asked this already but that was a long time ago.... is this something that one ought to be doing in the home. We read often enough about people dieing in plating plants. If you are not comfortable with working with cyanide based plating baths in your home shop, then don't. But unless you've got children or pets who might not know to keep away, it's potentially possible for you to learn to work with the stuff safely. Not recommended officially, of course, but certainly possible. My own shop is in my basement. I've used cyanide baths on occasion. I know what I'm doing with them, so I consider myself safe with them. Whether you are, depends on you. The cyanide baths are far superior to chloride based baths in terms of quality of the plated layer, thickness, color, and shelf life of the bath. Most pro platers use them for these reasons. But you can indeed get non-cyanide based baths. These are acid, based on gold chlorides, rather than cyanides, so they are much safer to use. Used with a power source, these are not like your electroless bath at all, and are capable of professional level plating results. They're a bit more sensative to improper conditions (temp, voltage, etc), but many people have used them with satisfactory results. Rio Grande, among other suppliers, carries a good line of such plating baths which would be safe for a home shop. As I noted, if you want really good gold plating over silver, also equip yourself with copper and bright nickle baths. Then you'll need the rest, DC power supply, hot plates, thermometers, electrocleaning solution, beakers, distilled water, etc. It's really not difficult to do. But for your forks, I'd still suggest sending them to a pro. They can do without the underplates (so no possiblity of nickle sensativity) by putting on a thick enough layer of gold, using a bath that produces a dense, bright, non-porous layer, so you won't get copper or silver migrating through a thin electroplate to tarnish. Such a firm could do the same with fine silver if you wish that instead. Peter It occurs to me that using those zinc/w'ever tarnish prevention paper strips to store a re-polished fork in a separate place (ziploc or ? other bag) might prove that it most certainly is tarnish. Are those things still available? |
#4
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Gold Plating
Thanks for the info Peter.
Before reading this, I took one of the forks out and heated it in a torch expecting the change of color series seen in steel. I have no idea how hot it got because I quit when nothing happened and before it started to get red. I said "nothing" happened but actually, the tarnish vanished very quickly when the heat was applied soI have at least removed the symptoms of the disease so I thought I would quit while ahead. I will check out Rio on the plating but I thought there were just two possibilities available and I tried one and don't like it so I assumed it was cyanide or nothing. I would appreciate your source for sending out but I really am a do it yourselfer and would prefer to learn how to do it right. As a point of interest, do stones have to be removed from the settings when plated commercially? js |
#5
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Gold Plating
On Mar 24, 3:34 am, Jack Schmidling wrote:
My fork tines are again beginning to show the blueing we previously discussed so I guess my quick fix with the pickle was just a flash in the pan. My next attempt will be to "temper" the tines. I am thinking just enough heat to almost get to the "straw color" and then cool. Quench or air cool will have to be determined. On a related topic and the subject of this posting... All of my jewelery that I have gold plated suffer from tarnish of the silver bleed through and need regular polishing to look good. My gold plating has been the dip and wear, acid hobby method. Works great and looks great for a while but the solution has a very short shelf life. Once the bottle is opened even if only half is used, it becomes useless within a couple of months. I even tried using a piece of sacrificial gold as anode/cathode and this did not help. So I am thinking of making a leap into the professional method and need to do some research on the subject but the basic question is, and I think I asked this already but that was a long time ago.... is this something that one ought to be doing in the home. We read often enough about people dieing in plating plants. js HI, if you are gold plating over silver or sterling silver, copper, brass or steel, you must first plate the silver with nickel and then plate with gold or platinum. The nickel acts as a barrier keeping any tarnish from coming through. Hope this helps. If you want I can send you my tutorial for plating. My email is . Janet www.thejewelryclassroom.com |
#6
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#7
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Not good. I was really looking forward to both these games White Gold, Precursors, but I knew something was up.. 8 months ago or so, when they just stopped updating everything regarding Deep Shadows.
I wonder if its possible to find a fan translated version of the Russian game into English? That could work. Precursors wont ever be released though. Sad. К стате пользуюсь очень правдивым и удобным гороскопом по крайней мере у меня всегда выходит точно Другая программа, которую рекомендует v7em.com– Это Internet Explorer – так же чрезвычайно популярный браузер, его финальная, т.е. окончательная версия. Получается, надо понимать так, что это само совершенство и придумать что-то лучше не представляется вероятным. Недаром вездесущая Microsoft которая хочет проникнуть и быть в курсе на все процессы происходящие в мире и во все интересное в софт-мире, рекомендует всем пользователям поскорее скачать свое творение на их компьютеры . А куда денемся?! Программой месяца стала LanAgent Она предназначена для тех случаев, когда важно наблюдать за тем, как ведут себя пользователи в локальной сети. Особенно она нужна боссам. Боссы обязаны знать, чем это занимаются сотрудники предприятия. Вдруг, вместо того, чтобы писать отчеты и изучать ситуацию на рынке, бездельничают Такие программы хороши тем, что дает шанс рационально использовать время организации. В других разделах тоже самое. И там, и там, везде можно найти лейбл от v7em.com. Мол: «Рекомендуем!». И, кроме того, совет, как скачать программы, без которых жить нельзя, можно, нужно и должно прислушиваться. |
#8
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Gold plating is a method of depositing a thin layer of gold onto the surface of another metal, most often copper or silver (to make silver-gilt), by chemical or electrochemical means. This article covers methods used in the modern electronics industry; more traditional methods, often used for much larger objects, are covered in gilding.
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#9
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Gold Plating is process of depositing a thin layer of gold onto the surface of another metal.There are many application are available in the market.
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#10
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As I suggested before, the behavior of these things is consistant with the sort
of layered surface you get with a lack of control of fire scale and fire stain in the original making of these. Your fix is simply to have them thoroughly silver plated. Use a professional plating firm, so as to get a good thick enough coating. The plated fine silver will be about as resistant to tarnish as any silver surface could be. If you want better, get them gold plated. Same deal. Use a pro. Thin gold plating may look good,The gold anode is only sacrificial in a cyanide based solution. In other types, it's merely inert. The dip and plate electroless solutions put an extremely thin layer on. |
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