A big thank you!

Bernadette i say that i made quite some Moebius Shawls ,, and by this
i feel i solved it to the best ,,,
mirjam

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 01:39:41 -0500, Anastasia Luettecke wrote:

OED does not list a plural, although it does list Mobius as a noun. I'd
say that since it came into popular use within the last century, and since
it's a proper name, the plural form would most likely be Mobiuses. We
tend to use the Germanic "es" plural ending for most proper nouns
nowadays.

Anastasia

--Linguistics graduate student

snip

Thank you very much indeed for explaining that Anastasia, it explains it
clearly. I shall use the word moebiuses in future as that does make more
sense to me.

Bernadette

--
Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light

Yes Gemini ,,, the Hollands is a Country`s name not a family name !!!!
different rulings here ... also some names lend them selves to
different ending because of pronounciation problems !!!
mirjam

"Vintage Purls" wrote in message
roups.com...

I can find it in some dictionaries (especially under the spelling
'mobius') but no plural is mentioned. For example see:
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Mobius

Given that it's a person's name (August Ferdinand Möbius) and that
what we're probably really talking about are "Möbius strips" or
"Möbius bands" there just may not be any official plural.
--

Okay, if it is a person's name... or started out as such... that ends in an
's' then I have an input into this since my own last name is Hollands. If
we are talking about our family we say (spell) it Hollands'.... no 'es' on
the end.

*hugs*
Gemini

On Oct 31, 5:20 pm, (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote:
Since MOEBBIUS
is wrtten like this ,,,
does it make a difference how one pluralizes it ???

Moebius or Möbius are the two spellings I've seen in common usage. The
later is more common in general use, the former more common amoungst
knitters.

What we knitters refer to as "a moebius" is probably more
understandable to non-knitters as "a möbius strip".

According to this site: http://www.toroidalsnark.net/mkmb.html,
the history of knitted möbius strips includes a 1971 paper by Miles
Reid which includes a knitted möbius band and "Elizabeth Zimmerman
designed the best-known Möbius scarf, with an extrinsic twist, and it
appears in her 1973 book Knitting Without Tears."
How does Zimmermann spell it?

Of course we pretty much know what people mean however they spell or
pluralise it.

VP

How did my message from the 31st (which I thought was lost in the
mists of time) appear *after* my post of today? I'll blame Google
Groups.

VP

Mirjam, thank you also for that.

Having seen it referred to as "a moebius" is what led me to question how
one would pluralise the word. With your permission I shall also use the
expression "Moebius Shawls" as it explains simply, and without possibility
of confusion, exactly what is being discussed.

It is also a rather more elegant solution to the question!

Bernadette

--
Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 04:38:14 +0000, Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

Bernadette i say that i made quite some Moebius Shawls ,, and by this i
feel i solved it to the best ,,,
mirjam

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 01:39:41 -0500, Anastasia Luettecke wrote:

OED does not list a plural, although it does list Mobius as a noun.
I'd say that since it came into popular use within the last century,
and since it's a proper name, the plural form would most likely be
Mobiuses. We tend to use the Germanic "es" plural ending for most
proper nouns nowadays.

Anastasia

--Linguistics graduate student

snip

Thank you very much indeed for explaining that Anastasia, it explains it
clearly. I shall use the word moebiuses in future as that does make more
sense to me.

Bernadette

--
Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light

Oh Bernadette Of course you can use this expression it is not mine ,
and it is the most possible perfect description ,,,
And i know what you mean by the HOW to plurize a word ,,, i have made
so many of those shawls that it needs a plural deffinition.
mirjam


Mirjam, thank you also for that.

Having seen it referred to as "a moebius" is what led me to question how
one would pluralise the word. With your permission I shall also use the
expression "Moebius Shawls" as it explains simply, and without possibility
of confusion, exactly what is being discussed.

It is also a rather more elegant solution to the question!

Bernadette

VP , i have answered in another note that Elizabeth Zimmermann spells
in it`s Proper German was MOEBIUS
In her Book "Knitting Around , page 52 there is a whole chapter " The
Knitted Moebius ,,,,, Our difference from her`s is that she indeed
knitted a straight piece which she later turned into the ring with an
unobsedved seam ,, we now adays Start from the middle and either knit
or crochet outwards !!!!

What is this F6 thing ????
As far as i remember it DID NOT appear in knitting without tears !!!!
And i would Never call it a Moebius strip , since it isn`t what it
should be unless it is the ring with the twist ,,
For years we aould cup paste and glue Moebius rings for our children
!!!!
mirjam

On Oct 31, 5:20 pm, (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote:
Since MOEBBIUS
is wrtten like this ,,,
does it make a difference how one pluralizes it ???

Moebius or M=F6bius are the two spellings I've seen in common usage. The
later is more common in general use, the former more common amoungst
knitters.

What we knitters refer to as "a moebius" is probably more
understandable to non-knitters as "a m=F6bius strip".

According to this site: http://www.toroidalsnark.net/mkmb.html,
the history of knitted m=F6bius strips includes a 1971 paper by Miles
Reid which includes a knitted m=F6bius band and "Elizabeth Zimmerman
designed the best-known M=F6bius scarf, with an extrinsic twist, and it
appears in her 1973 book Knitting Without Tears."
How does Zimmermann spell it?

Of course we pretty much know what people mean however they spell or
pluralise it.

VP

In article ,
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
VP wrote
On Oct 31, 5:20 pm, (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

Since MOEBBIUS is wrtten like this ,,,
does it make a difference how one pluralizes it ???

Moebius or M=F6bius are the two spellings I've seen in common usage.

VP , i have answered in another note that Elizabeth Zimmermann spells
in it`s Proper German was MOEBIUS
In her Book "Knitting Around , page 52 there is a whole chapter " The
Knitted Moebius ,,,,, Our difference from her`s is that she indeed
knitted a straight piece which she later turned into the ring with an
unobsedved seam ,, we now adays Start from the middle and either knit
or crochet outwards !!!!

What is this F6 thing ????

People who do computers tell me:
Usenet newsgroups (which this is one of) use the ASCII text, which is
a 7-bit computer system. Fancier word processing systems (like OE or
Micro$soft Word) use an 8-bit system, which adds all the umlauts etc
that the 7-bit system can't use. The 7-bit system renders them in
whatever odd code it comes up with. The umlauted o in Mobius's name
turns into =F6 because of that.

Spelling it Moebius is the acceptable way to get it to come out
clear in the 7-bit system.

As far as i remember it DID NOT appear in knitting without tears !!!!
And i would Never call it a Moebius strip , since it isn`t what it
should be unless it is the ring with the twist ,,

Technically you are correct. In common usage in the USA it is
called a moebius strip because it is made by connecting the ends of
a strip of paper. Only in knitting and crocheting is it now made
by starting with a ring of stitches (and even that begins with a
cast-on strip of stitches that are then connected). So I guess the
"strip" refers to the beginnings of the moebius object in reality
rather than the Platonic Ideal of it in its completed form without
a beginning. Clearly the knitters and crocheters are the
better mathematicians. :-)

=Tamar

Gemini wrote
Okay, if it is a person's name... or started out as such... that ends in an
's' then I have an input into this since my own last name is Hollands. If
we are talking about our family we say (spell) it Hollands'.... no 'es' on
the end.

That depends on whether you are talking about a group of people or
talking about something owned by them. Part of the problem is
that the plural and the possessive sound almost the same, and in
some usages they sound exactly the same.

As I was taught in school:

The plural of "Hollands" is "the Hollandses."
The possessive of Hollands is Hollands', as in
"The Hollandses [all of the people] all share equally in the
use of the Hollands' vacation home [possessed by all of them].

Compare the common Welsh last name, "Williams". The family group
are the Williamses. The house they own is "the Williams' house".

In an older form, the possessive was "the Williams's house", which
sounds _exactly_ like the plural. I still think that's better than
"the Williams' house", which sounds as though the house belongs
to the head of a clan, called "The Williams" the way the head of
Clan MacGregor is called The MacGregor (for instance). However,
I'm just the one who got good marks on the exams; nobody listens
to me :-)

It gets worse when people put up signs labeling their home.
If the name were "Holland", their name as a group would be
"The Hollands", and the house name could be "The Hollands' [house]".
When the name is "Hollands", then the name as a group would
be "The Hollandses" and the house would be "The Hollandses' [house]".
In reality. the signs that I've seen just say "The Hollands".
(That implies that the lawn with the sign on it _is_ the family.)
It's just as well; doing it right would just cause trouble because
people who don't know the rules would assume the name was
spelled "Hollandse" and the confusion would be endless.

=Tamar, in a picky mood

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
Yes Gemini ,,, the Hollands is a Country`s name not a family name !!!!
different rulings here ... also some names lend them selves to
different ending because of pronounciation problems !!!
mirjam

Funny you should mention the country, Mirjam. All through school my
siblings and myself would be asked if we were Dutch because our last name is
Hollands. No, we are not Dutch! Granddad Hollands came from England and so
does his family name. His wife's maiden name was Waghorn, also from
England... and I went to school with a Dutch girl who's last name was
Hornweg.

So now, if someone asks me how to spell my name I just find it easier to
just say "It's spelled like the Dutch country, but put an *s* on the end of
it!" )

*hugs*
Gemini