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#11
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***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the
bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
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#12
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:59:05 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote:
Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals. Tina If it's good enough to sell, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist or a beginner.. The sentiment is the same.. It's worth the extra $ - IMNSHO Mavis |
#13
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:16:44 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:
I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. I've never believed in price fixing or a group governing prices... but I don't think this is what they are getting at. I think the whole thrust of the thread is pricing which reflects the value of the beads.. the worth of them - not only to the beader/artist but also to the customer. For example, if I purchase something for nix, then it's not worth much to me.. whereas if I purchase something for a reasonable price then it becomes more valuable/precious to me. Hence, I will take more care with it etc, etc... Blah, blah, blah... Hope that all makes sense Mavis |
#14
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:19:02 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:
***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. Objectivity is a good thing Kandice... Calls for open-mindedness though. It'll be interesting to see.. heh,heh Mavis |
#15
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Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o)
First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi. Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work. That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a quality piece of beadwork. Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12, I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail store. While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works. There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market demand to find that happy medium. That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time, that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the market thins, your competition increases. You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it is you as an individual can do to change. You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc. Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to offer. Not what others choose to sell for. The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in. They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs for. I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally undercut others and I do not overprice. Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the best of the best.. =o) If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel you deserve, then find the location that will. It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon them. While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it is the individuals within that family that make it what it is. A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists, craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more worth. Beki http://www.whimbeads.com |
#16
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My hubby used to sell insurance. He had the same problems there. He would
have a good product and spend a lot of time and effort learning about it and teaching potential clients about it, only to have them go to a cheaper alternative... then they would have the gall to come back and complain to my hubby because the service stunk or the product was bad ... that's one reason he's not selling it anymore. I have a certain price in mind when I sell beads, kits or jewelry - it includes my cost, my time and my creativity. If I can't get that price, I'd just as soon give it away! I've found over and over again when I cut my prices to try to sell more - say when I'm in a financial jam - I actually sell LESS. Go figure... Well that's what AutumnH said in the forum "I learned long ago (as a Mary Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the perceived value." It's just hard to stick it out and keep believing in your own vision when sales are low. -- Vibrant Jewels Online Bead & Jewelry Store http://www.vibrantjewels.com/jewelry/welcome.htm Karleen Page/Vibrant Jewels JustBead Auctions http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=21770 PayPal Merchant Account https://www.paypal.com/mrb/pal=7XJ98L86Z7S2C "AmazeR" wrote in message news On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, meijhana wrote: I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary This goes for anything one is selling.. People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher than the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this before.. If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?' and will buy the dearer product almost every time.. It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is worth. I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are too.. I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary.. Mavis |
#17
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If someone makes a professional product, I consider them professionals.
That's why I differentiated between them and beginners/hobbyists. I'm obviously referring to the a level of expertise as opposd to how much money someone is making. And frankly, I looked at Wet Canvas and went to some of the bead site of the people making comments. Not all of them made nice beads. Tina "AmazeR" wrote in message news On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:59:05 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote: Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals. Tina If it's good enough to sell, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist or a beginner.. The sentiment is the same.. It's worth the extra $ - IMNSHO Mavis |
#18
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Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem?
Tina "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076446594.244893@prawn... One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
#19
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"Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
#20
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Try selling computers! I did that for three years for a major computer
manufacturer. I'd configure a system based on what the client wanted to do with it only to have them go to Circuit City and buy an $800 integrated system for playing high end games. I still remember a kid who came in with his dad to buy his system for college - graphics design major. I configured a system for about $1800, with printer and office software. He wanted the $600 computer - fully integrated, barely enough RAM to run Windows, Works Suite, and a 15" monitor. I tried telling him that that system wasn't made for his usage. He looked at me with such a haughty look and ask if I was going to be a graphic design major. I told him no but I had 22 years of drafting, including 7 years of doing printed circuit board design with CAD software. He said that wasn't the same thing and I informed him it was - both are graphics intensive and that system wasn't for him. He insisted, Dad bought it. And after they left the store I added text to the order that I advised the client that that system was NOT going to suit his needs for the next four years. I tried my honest best to get people the most value for their money and I was treated like a used car salesperson! I will never put myself in that position again. I hold nothing against the company, which closed our location last March and left me without a job. I can't do anything about the commission-hungry sharks that are out there stealing money from people who don't know what to get when it comes to computers. "Karleen/Vibrant Jewels" wrote in message hlink.net... My hubby used to sell insurance. He had the same problems there. He would have a good product and spend a lot of time and effort learning about it and teaching potential clients about it, only to have them go to a cheaper alternative... then they would have the gall to come back and complain to my hubby because the service stunk or the product was bad ... that's one reason he's not selling it anymore. I have a certain price in mind when I sell beads, kits or jewelry - it includes my cost, my time and my creativity. If I can't get that price, I'd just as soon give it away! I've found over and over again when I cut my prices to try to sell more - say when I'm in a financial jam - I actually sell LESS. Go figure... Well that's what AutumnH said in the forum "I learned long ago (as a Mary Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the perceived value." It's just hard to stick it out and keep believing in your own vision when sales are low. -- Vibrant Jewels Online Bead & Jewelry Store http://www.vibrantjewels.com/jewelry/welcome.htm Karleen Page/Vibrant Jewels JustBead Auctions http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=21770 PayPal Merchant Account https://www.paypal.com/mrb/pal=7XJ98L86Z7S2C "AmazeR" wrote in message news On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, meijhana wrote: I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary This goes for anything one is selling.. People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher than the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this before.. If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?' and will buy the dearer product almost every time.. It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is worth. I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are too.. I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary.. Mavis |
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