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How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 4th 06, 08:54 AM posted to rec.crafts.glass
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Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

Hi,

I am fully aware of the dangers for HF, but can anyone please guide me,


***How to setup a workshop/studio to acid etch 5 feet long sheet of
glass?***

I have worked with it in a different country, but because of OSHA, EPA,
Fire Marshall etc. requirements am confused as how to go about setting
up a studio for acid etching here in the U.S.

I know that there needs to be a proper ventilation and proper storage
along with handling ofcourse. I also realize that an OSHA approved
equipment is very expensive.

***Can someone please guide me to what the OSHA approved equipment is
AND please tell me if there is any other cheaper alternative to
that?***

Any help would be very much appreciated!!

Tahir.

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  #2  
Old June 4th 06, 03:20 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
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Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

It would be cheaper, safer and much easier to get a sandblasting
set-up.


^TahirKanch^ wrote:
Hi,

I am fully aware of the dangers for HF, but can anyone please guide me,


***How to setup a workshop/studio to acid etch 5 feet long sheet of
glass?***

I have worked with it in a different country, but because of OSHA, EPA,
Fire Marshall etc. requirements am confused as how to go about setting
up a studio for acid etching here in the U.S.

I know that there needs to be a proper ventilation and proper storage
along with handling ofcourse. I also realize that an OSHA approved
equipment is very expensive.

***Can someone please guide me to what the OSHA approved equipment is
AND please tell me if there is any other cheaper alternative to
that?***

Any help would be very much appreciated!!

Tahir.


  #3  
Old June 4th 06, 04:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

I actually have been giving some thought to this lately and having some
questions myself. I have zero experience with sandblasting. Can you
achieve "gradients" on removing flashed glass with sandblasting like you
can with acid etches? All of the sandblasted flashed glass work I've
seen has had *all* of the flashing removed.

-Ray

wrote:
It would be cheaper, safer and much easier to get a sandblasting
set-up.


  #4  
Old June 4th 06, 04:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?


"^TahirKanch^" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I am fully aware of the dangers for HF, but can anyone please guide me,


***How to setup a workshop/studio to acid etch 5 feet long sheet of
glass?***

I have worked with it in a different country, but because of OSHA, EPA,
Fire Marshall etc. requirements am confused as how to go about setting
up a studio for acid etching here in the U.S.

I know that there needs to be a proper ventilation and proper storage
along with handling ofcourse. I also realize that an OSHA approved
equipment is very expensive.

***Can someone please guide me to what the OSHA approved equipment is
AND please tell me if there is any other cheaper alternative to
that?***

Any help would be very much appreciated!!

Tahir.



You are in the wrong topic to be looking for "cheaper", this is the only
topic in glass which I refuse to participate in.
The risks are too high, all of the "old guys" that did it are gone, there
are no old , experienced people left to talk to.
Does that tell you anything?

the large glass houses that would use acid etched panels have found it
cheaper and more productive to silk screen ceramic frit and run it thru a
tempering oven, (spell all that big $$$$) than to resort to HF etching.

There is NO "cheaper than" when dealing with HF, and damn few hospitals have
seen the damage done by an acid that poisons AND burns, and is attracted by
Calcium. You know, that stuff your bones are made of...

If you have the experience in another country, go do it there, somebody will
get hurt here if you need those answers to those questions before you even
start.

Nasty stuff whose results in the art glass world can be replicated in other
, safer ways.


  #5  
Old June 4th 06, 04:40 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

There is a Yahoo group called "sandcarving" that might be helpful.


"Ray" wrote in message
om...
I actually have been giving some thought to this lately and having some
questions myself. I have zero experience with sandblasting. Can you
achieve "gradients" on removing flashed glass with sandblasting like you
can with acid etches? All of the sandblasted flashed glass work I've
seen has had *all* of the flashing removed.

-Ray

wrote:
It would be cheaper, safer and much easier to get a sandblasting
set-up.




  #6  
Old June 4th 06, 05:17 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

^TahirKanch^ wrote:
Hi,

I am fully aware of the dangers for HF, but can anyone please guide me,


***How to setup a workshop/studio to acid etch 5 feet long sheet of
glass?***

I have worked with it in a different country, but because of OSHA, EPA,
Fire Marshall etc. requirements am confused as how to go about setting
up a studio for acid etching here in the U.S.

I know that there needs to be a proper ventilation and proper storage
along with handling ofcourse. I also realize that an OSHA approved
equipment is very expensive.

***Can someone please guide me to what the OSHA approved equipment is
AND please tell me if there is any other cheaper alternative to
that?***

Any help would be very much appreciated!!

Tahir.


If you're going to be doing this yourself, with no employees, OSHA has
no say in the matter. Their job is to protect your employees from you,
not protect you from yourself. Local codes are in place to protect the
general public from you. Having worked with large amounts of HF for 20
years, I would suggest you abandon the idea. I carried a card in my
wallet in case burns became noticeable after I was away from work. It
explained the medical procedures necessary and numbers to call for advice.

Not sure what you want to do but I find it hard to believe it couldn't
be accomplished via sandblasting and/or wheel carving. To complete the
job and attain the finish you want, you could then send the piece to
Crystal Traditions in Tiffin, Ohio.

http://www.crystaltraditions.com/services.html

That would be cheaper, safer, and much wiser.

--
Jack

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://www.glassartguild.com/gallery/jack_bowman
  #7  
Old June 4th 06, 05:22 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

Ray wrote:

I actually have been giving some thought to this lately and having some
questions myself. I have zero experience with sandblasting. Can you
achieve "gradients" on removing flashed glass with sandblasting like you
can with acid etches? All of the sandblasted flashed glass work I've
seen has had *all* of the flashing removed.

-Ray


With practice, you can remove exactly what you want.
--
Jack

bobo1148atxmissiondotcom


http://www.glassartguild.com/gallery/jack_bowman
  #8  
Old June 5th 06, 02:41 AM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

I would argue that the look of acid etching cannot be duplicated by
simply sandblasting. For one, the process of sandblasting destroys the
transparency of the the glass which acid etching retains. To achieve a
similar effect, you would need to fire polish the sandblasting
afterwards, and even that is still not as "clear" as the HF approach.

That said, it is nearly impossible to find any studio in the US that
still acid etches. This has more to do with safety regulations and
insurance than a preference for sandblasting. It is possible to build a
facility that can safely acid etch very large glass surfaces, but you
would need to spend a lot of money to do it right. There can be no
short cuts with something so dangerous.

(As a digression here is a story about my first HF attempt: Etching a
small piece of flashed glass in a plastic darkroom tray, I set my
operation up outside using a large fan to blow the fumes away from me.
The etching was uneventful & successful. However, within two weeks the
mature pine tree twenty feet downwind of my etching station was dead!
At the time I remember seeing the fumes blowing towards it and gave it
no further thought. HF is as dangerous as everyone says.)

There are a couple of German studios with very nice acid etching rooms.
They have sophisticated ventilation systems and employees wear a lot
of safety gear! Perhaps you should try and get a job with them to learn
how to do it safely.

If you do decide to build such an operation in the USA, let me know.
You will get some of my business!

--Cactus

^TahirKanch^ wrote:
Hi,

I am fully aware of the dangers for HF, but can anyone please guide me,


***How to setup a workshop/studio to acid etch 5 feet long sheet of
glass?***

I have worked with it in a different country, but because of OSHA, EPA,
Fire Marshall etc. requirements am confused as how to go about setting
up a studio for acid etching here in the U.S.

I know that there needs to be a proper ventilation and proper storage
along with handling ofcourse. I also realize that an OSHA approved
equipment is very expensive.

***Can someone please guide me to what the OSHA approved equipment is
AND please tell me if there is any other cheaper alternative to
that?***

Any help would be very much appreciated!!

Tahir.

  #9  
Old June 5th 06, 05:30 AM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?

Thank you! A person who has seen the results after HF etching would
never believe sandblasting would bring the same effect. It is totally
different I believe the texture, translucency and the polished finished
cannot be duplicated by any other method, well one could try to get the
best closest result but I am willing to bet it still won't be the same
thing.

Thanks everyone for all the good advices. But I stand with the same
determination I had before I started the discussion. I need to find how
to make a setup here that is compliant to all the regulation.

If anyone can please help me directions as how to setup an acid etching
facility and any equipment that's used in the setup, it would be a
great help.

Also I am still confused What is the equipment or setup that's OSHA
approved? Where can I find it?

I now understand there are no shortcuts in setting up an acid etching
facility. I am willing to spend the high dollars but I need all the
help or advise I can get as to how to 'efficiently design' that setup?

Thanks for all the comments folks. Please keep 'em coming.



Cactus Bob wrote:
I would argue that the look of acid etching cannot be duplicated by
simply sandblasting. For one, the process of sandblasting destroys the
transparency of the the glass which acid etching retains. To achieve a
similar effect, you would need to fire polish the sandblasting
afterwards, and even that is still not as "clear" as the HF approach.

That said, it is nearly impossible to find any studio in the US that
still acid etches. This has more to do with safety regulations and
insurance than a preference for sandblasting. It is possible to build a
facility that can safely acid etch very large glass surfaces, but you
would need to spend a lot of money to do it right. There can be no
short cuts with something so dangerous.

(As a digression here is a story about my first HF attempt: Etching a
small piece of flashed glass in a plastic darkroom tray, I set my
operation up outside using a large fan to blow the fumes away from me.
The etching was uneventful & successful. However, within two weeks the
mature pine tree twenty feet downwind of my etching station was dead!
At the time I remember seeing the fumes blowing towards it and gave it
no further thought. HF is as dangerous as everyone says.)

There are a couple of German studios with very nice acid etching rooms.
They have sophisticated ventilation systems and employees wear a lot
of safety gear! Perhaps you should try and get a job with them to learn
how to do it safely.

If you do decide to build such an operation in the USA, let me know.
You will get some of my business!

--Cactus

^TahirKanch^ wrote:
Hi,

I am fully aware of the dangers for HF, but can anyone please guide me,


***How to setup a workshop/studio to acid etch 5 feet long sheet of
glass?***

I have worked with it in a different country, but because of OSHA, EPA,
Fire Marshall etc. requirements am confused as how to go about setting
up a studio for acid etching here in the U.S.

I know that there needs to be a proper ventilation and proper storage
along with handling ofcourse. I also realize that an OSHA approved
equipment is very expensive.

***Can someone please guide me to what the OSHA approved equipment is
AND please tell me if there is any other cheaper alternative to
that?***

Any help would be very much appreciated!!

Tahir.


  #10  
Old June 5th 06, 02:10 PM posted to rec.crafts.glass
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do I setup a studio/workshop for Hydrofluoric Acid Etching?


"^TahirKanch^" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you! A person who has seen the results after HF etching would
never believe sandblasting would bring the same effect. It is totally
different I believe the texture, translucency and the polished finished
cannot be duplicated by any other method, well one could try to get the
best closest result but I am willing to bet it still won't be the same
thing.

Thanks everyone for all the good advices. But I stand with the same
determination I had before I started the discussion. I need to find how
to make a setup here that is compliant to all the regulation.

If anyone can please help me directions as how to setup an acid etching
facility and any equipment that's used in the setup, it would be a
great help.

Also I am still confused What is the equipment or setup that's OSHA
approved? Where can I find it?

I now understand there are no shortcuts in setting up an acid etching
facility. I am willing to spend the high dollars but I need all the
help or advise I can get as to how to 'efficiently design' that setup?

Thanks for all the comments folks. Please keep 'em coming.



The best people to ask, are the people that will do the inspecting and
regulating, they are gov'mnt officials and work for the taxpayer. If they
can not answer your questions, they will know the consultants to help do
things correctly and in compliance.

They can also keep an eye on your ass in case you are a terrorist intent on
poisoning our water supply!


 




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