Creating very light hollow metal ornaments

I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could float
by the buoyancy of the air inside. I wanted to use metal because some
parts of the object would need to withstand an ambient temperature of
about 100-150 degrees celsius. I figured a good thickness for the
metal would be about 0.5 mm, enough to withstand moderate handling
without deforming. I'm not a craft expert, but I the best idea I
thought of would be to do the following:

1) create a master object from clay or polyclay
2) use the master to create a mould from plaster
3) use the plaster mould to make a wax copy of the object
4) apply an initial film of nickel by solution or aerosol spray
5) plated the metal of choice onto the nickel to the desired thickness
6) immerse the object in boiled water to melt the wax
7) wax can then be skimmed off and recycled

The object shape could be quite complex, for example a flower with
petals or miniture scene with a house or something. I might end up
producing small batches of a 1000 or more. Can anyone comment on my
proposed technique? Would there be a better or simpler way to do it?
How would an industrial production line do something like this? I
realise I can enlist the services of metal plating companies to deal
with some of the work. Comments please.

Many thanks,
Erik

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:47 GMT, (Marin)
wrote:

I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could float
by the buoyancy of the air inside.

You mean float on water? I'm not sure why you'd call them ornaments
then. No metal filled with "air" will float in air. You'd have to
use a lighter-than-air gas.

I wanted to use metal because some
parts of the object would need to withstand an ambient temperature of
about 100-150 degrees celsius. I figured a good thickness for the
metal would be about 0.5 mm, enough to withstand moderate handling
without deforming. I'm not a craft expert, but I the best idea I
thought of would be to do the following:

1) create a master object from clay or polyclay
2) use the master to create a mould from plaster
3) use the plaster mould to make a wax copy of the object
4) apply an initial film of nickel by solution or aerosol spray
5) plated the metal of choice onto the nickel to the desired thickness
6) immerse the object in boiled water to melt the wax
7) wax can then be skimmed off and recycled

The object shape could be quite complex, for example a flower with
petals or miniture scene with a house or something. I might end up
producing small batches of a 1000 or more. Can anyone comment on my
proposed technique? Would there be a better or simpler way to do it?
How would an industrial production line do something like this? I
realise I can enlist the services of metal plating companies to deal
with some of the work. Comments please.

Many thanks,
Erik

--
Marilee J. Layman

"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:47 GMT, (Marin)
wrote:

I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could
float
by the buoyancy of the air inside.

You mean float on water?

Marilee - If a light body of gold is filled with air and is
water-tight, then it will float.

No metal filled with "air" will float in air. You'd have to
use a lighter-than-air gas.

I think Marin meant electro-forming, which might give the requested
results.

Here's a link for some basic info:
http://www.gold.org/jewellery/techno...g/electro.html

-SP-





Marilee J. Layman

[I've seen a line of jewelry in production that was similar to what you're
talking about. The process wasn't quite the same, though. They mastered the
parts in metal, using the lost-wax process, then spin-cast the parts in
solid zinc. These were quite heavy, but then they were electroformed with a
thin shell of gold (this was the complicated part, since an elaborate
computerized setup was used to control the deposition of the 14k alloy). In
your case, copper electroforming would be a lot simpler. The zinc was
removed in an acid bath, through a small hole made in the exterior shell.
The method you outline below might work, although rubber molds would be
better than plaster for small complex items. I've never heard of aerosolized
nickel (most conductive lacquers are silver-based.). Handling the wax models
in this circumstance would be tricky, too, since most plating and
electrofoming solutions are heated. In general, simple forms work better in
this type of process than complex ones, since the copper likes to deposit
itself on exterior edges, the sharper the better, and tries to avoid
concavities. Try some experimentation before committing to producing
thousands of these.

Just out of curiosity, what are these for? You just like to see something
bobbing around in your french fries while they're cooking?]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com



"Marin" wrote in message
...
I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could float
by the buoyancy of the air inside. I wanted to use metal because some
parts of the object would need to withstand an ambient temperature of
about 100-150 degrees celsius. I figured a good thickness for the
metal would be about 0.5 mm, enough to withstand moderate handling
without deforming. I'm not a craft expert, but I the best idea I
thought of would be to do the following:

1) create a master object from clay or polyclay
2) use the master to create a mould from plaster
3) use the plaster mould to make a wax copy of the object
4) apply an initial film of nickel by solution or aerosol spray
5) plated the metal of choice onto the nickel to the desired thickness
6) immerse the object in boiled water to melt the wax
7) wax can then be skimmed off and recycled

The object shape could be quite complex, for example a flower with
petals or miniture scene with a house or something. I might end up
producing small batches of a 1000 or more. Can anyone comment on my
proposed technique? Would there be a better or simpler way to do it?
How would an industrial production line do something like this? I
realise I can enlist the services of metal plating companies to deal
with some of the work. Comments please.

Many thanks,
Erik

-SP- wrote:
"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:47 GMT, (Marin)
wrote:

I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could
float by the buoyancy of the air inside.

You mean float on water?

Marilee - If a light body of gold is filled with air and is
water-tight, then it will float.

No metal filled with "air" will float in air. You'd have to
use a lighter-than-air gas.

I think Marin meant electro-forming, which might give the requested
results.

Here's a link for some basic info:
http://www.gold.org/jewellery/techno...g/electro.html


Electroformed items are in most case between 0,07- 0,15 mm thick. 0.5
mm
ist thick enogh to be casted. The thinnest forms to be casted are 0,17
mm thick.

--
Heinrich Butschal
casting technologies
http://butschal.de/werkstatt

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:10:49 GMT, "-SP-" wrote:


"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:47 GMT, (Marin)
wrote:

I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could
float
by the buoyancy of the air inside.

You mean float on water?

Marilee - If a light body of gold is filled with air and is
water-tight, then it will float.

Duh. As I said, that you cut, "I'm not sure why you'd call them
ornaments then."

No metal filled with "air" will float in air. You'd have to
use a lighter-than-air gas.

I think Marin meant electro-forming, which might give the requested
results.

Here's a link for some basic info:
http://www.gold.org/jewellery/techno...g/electro.html

It still wouldn't float in air, and I would expect ornaments to be in
air, not water.

--
Marilee J. Layman

"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:10:49 GMT, "-SP-" wrote:


"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:47 GMT, (Marin)
wrote:

I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could
float
by the buoyancy of the air inside.

You mean float on water?

Marilee - If a light body of gold is filled with air and is
water-tight, then it will float.

Duh. As I said, that you cut, "I'm not sure why you'd call them
ornaments then."

Excellent point. One that I'd missed I'm afraid...

I of course, should have said/typed:

"...then it will float ...'on water'."



No metal filled with "air" will float in air. You'd have to
use a lighter-than-air gas.

I think Marin meant electro-forming, which might give the
requested
results.

Here's a link for some basic info:
http://www.gold.org/jewellery/techno...g/electro.html

It still wouldn't float in air, and I would expect ornaments to be
in
air, not water.

I think you're absolutely correct with what you say. I also would
expect ornaments to be in air and not water. However, what about those
funky fishtank ornaments that you find at the bottom of funky
fishtanks?

o
o
o
o
")))

-SP-





--
Marilee J. Layman

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:54:08 GMT, "-SP-" wrote:


"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:10:49 GMT, "-SP-" wrote:


"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:00:47 GMT, (Marin)
wrote:

I wanted to create very light hollow metal ornaments that could
float
by the buoyancy of the air inside.

You mean float on water?

Marilee - If a light body of gold is filled with air and is
water-tight, then it will float.

Duh. As I said, that you cut, "I'm not sure why you'd call them
ornaments then."

Excellent point. One that I'd missed I'm afraid...

I of course, should have said/typed:

"...then it will float ...'on water'."



No metal filled with "air" will float in air. You'd have to
use a lighter-than-air gas.

I think Marin meant electro-forming, which might give the
requested
results.

Here's a link for some basic info:
http://www.gold.org/jewellery/techno...g/electro.html

It still wouldn't float in air, and I would expect ornaments to be
in
air, not water.

I think you're absolutely correct with what you say. I also would
expect ornaments to be in air and not water. However, what about those
funky fishtank ornaments that you find at the bottom of funky
fishtanks?

o
o
o
o
")))

He said they have to hold up to 100C, and you'd be boiling your fish
at that temp.

--
Marilee J. Layman

"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:54:08 GMT, "-SP-" wrote:

o
o
o
o
")))

He said they have to hold up to 100C, and you'd be boiling your fish
at that temp.

Heh, yes, and the benefit of that, is 'fish and chips' to eat on a
Friday evening...

Nice Guppies...

-SP-


Marilee J. Layman