Help - sewing with tough outdoor fabrics

Hi - I'm looking for some advice. I'd like to make a custom pouch for
some gear using 1000 Denier Cordura fabric but I've got a few problems:

1) I've never done anything like this ever before (minor
inconvienience)
2) I have a regular run of the mill sewing machine but don't know if
it's powerful enough. ("White" model 1418)
3) I heard something about using a microfiber needle and a teflon foot
for the machine but I don't know if that's actually necessary, where to
get them and what kind of thread (?) or other binding to use.

About the only thing I do have going for me is that my wife used to
enjoy quilting so she may remember how to set things up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Telling me I'm out of my mind is
OK too. Thanks in advance.

wrote:

Hi - I'm looking for some advice. I'd like to make a custom pouch for
some gear using 1000 Denier Cordura fabric but I've got a few problems:

What, only a few?

1) I've never done anything like this ever before (minor
inconvienience)

hey - a chance to explore your capabilities! good move...

2) I have a regular run of the mill sewing machine but don't know if
it's powerful enough. ("White" model 1418)

Might be a problem... Try it: if it struggles, stop!

3) I heard something about using a microfiber needle and a teflon foot
for the machine but I don't know if that's actually necessary, where to
get them and what kind of thread (?) or other binding to use.

I've never needed a microfibre needle for Cordura, which tends to be
coarser than that... Try a 90 or 100 size needle if it's thick. Try a
Sharp or Jeans needle in that size. Needles will be available at any
decent sewing notions outlet. Look for Schmetz - the best! NAYYY, just
experience!

For thread you might like to try a stronger nylon or poly thread meant
for luggage. I don't know of a supplier off hand, but try a google
search of the archives - there may be something about it in past
discussions.


About the only thing I do have going for me is that my wife used to
enjoy quilting so she may remember how to set things up.

Welcome to both of you! I quilt, and have sewn bags... And lots of
other stuff! She should have no trouble helping you set up the machine.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Telling me I'm out of my mind is
OK too. Thanks in advance.

No more mad than I am!

Welcome to the on-line sewing world.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

I agree with what Kate says. A good Schmetz "Jeans" needle (I'd go a bit
bigger, maybe 110-120 with the thicker Jeans Stitch thread) and some thicker
Jeans Stitch thread ought to hold together whatever you stuff into it. I
made a large camping bag with a bunch of embroidery on it form scratch and
it turned out pretty good. While you have it turned inside out, you can add
some of that double-fold binding tape to clean up the edges and add another
thread/seam layer (if your White machine doesn't begin smoking!).

B~

wrote:

2) I have a regular run of the mill sewing machine but don't know if
it's powerful enough. ("White" model 1418)


I wouldn't try it with a White 1418 unless you are willing to take the
risk that it will ruin it. At least, that's what happened to us.

On 15 Aug 2005 16:57:45 -0700, wrote:
Hi - I'm looking for some advice. I'd like to make a custom pouch for
some gear using 1000 Denier Cordura fabric but I've got a few problems:

1) I've never done anything like this ever before (minor
inconvienience)

If you've sewn denim or canvas, it's very similar. If you want to wimp
on the cordura, make a first try from some old jeans or something. g
This is termed in US sewing-talk as "making a muslin". g

2) I have a regular run of the mill sewing machine but don't know if
it's powerful enough. ("White" model 1418)

Don't know this model, but I've sewn 1000d cordura, both plain and coated,
on a Viking 350. Try. If the motor sounds like it's bogging down and
really working, you can hand-crank it for small projects and start looking
in thrift stores for one of the old black indestructible boat-anchor machines
for heavy stuff.

3) I heard something about using a microfiber needle and a teflon foot
for the machine but I don't know if that's actually necessary, where to
get them and what kind of thread (?) or other binding to use.

I'd use a size 16/100 "sharp" or "jeans" needle, and regular polyester
sewing thread... Gutermann poly, Molyncke, Mettler... I take issue with the
cotton covered polyester threads like Coats Dual Duty, but you can probably
get away with it. Longish stitches, please... the last I sewed went together
well at about 6 stitches per inch.

More questions for you:
1) how are you going to construct your gear bag?
2) is the cordura coated or uncoated?
3) do you need this to be pretty waterproof? or just rugged?
4) do you have a zigzag capability on your machine?

Going to send you to a couple of pro resources, too:
http://specialtyoutdoors.com/tips/tips.asp
http://beaconfabric.com/vindex.html

And a library resource:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561582832

Kay

Wow! Thanks for the responses everyone. Where to start...?

Seems like our machine may not have the poop to do the job but I've got
some sample material coming and I'll give it a shot. Hopefully that
doesn't kill the whole idea right there. Maybe I have a neighbor with
one of those good old fashioned boat anchors...

Anyway, here's all the new Q's and A's:

1) I envision the bag as a simple pouch probably made from one piece of
material folded in half. If for some reason I turn out to be a
stitching virtuoso then I may try to add a bottom piece (to make it
flat). On the top would be a second fold over piece with at least a
clasp, maybe a zipper. The pouch is intended to protect a case with
dimensions of about 2"x12"x16".

2) The cordura I was thinking of using is coated on one side. I wanted
to make the case waterproof as well as tough against rips and scratches
so I figured I'd eventually make a small fully waterproof inner slip
sleeve that would go around the case first, before going into the
protective cordura pouch. For now I'll probably just use a plastic
bag.

3) I'd like the fit to be pretty tight so if the the seams are on the
inside I guess they'd need to be folded over to lay flat somehow. I
don't know if my machine stands a chance there but we'll see. If that
doesn't work then I probably can settle for a slightly looser fit to
allow for seams. Actually, I don't know what stitch to use. I've seen
'topstitching' recommended a few times. I don't really know what that
is except a stitch that appears to expose the thread to the outside
world. Even having the excess material of the seams on the outside
would probably be OK as long as I could dress them properly for
durability.

Our machine does have a zigzag stitch option. Everyone sees to like
them...what's the big advantage over a couple of rows of straight
stitches? Strength? I ask because I think straight stitchs may be a
little easier on the machine.

4) I had planned on using a heavy duty nylon thread...seemed logical,
but now I'm wondering.

Well thanks again. If you can spare a little more time fo my folly
that would be great. I'll be watching. Samples aren't due for a few
days so I'm thinking this weekend maybe early next week I'll have a
better idea of what I really want/can do.

On 16 Aug 2005 20:10:42 -0700, wrote:


2) The cordura I was thinking of using is coated on one side. I wanted
to make the case waterproof as well as tough against rips and scratches
so I figured I'd eventually make a small fully waterproof inner slip
sleeve that would go around the case first, before going into the
protective cordura pouch. For now I'll probably just use a plastic
bag.

I made the roll-kit for my bike tools from a coated-nylon
scrap from a tent fly. This was a mistake -- any tool that
isn't used for a long time sticks to the coating and is hard
to get out of the pocket. The coating also makes the pocket
non-skid when I'm trying to put the tool into the pocket.

I'm not a big fan of coated nylon for containers: the
coating soon develops pinholes, and after that serves only
to keep water from getting *out*. Worse, it keeps water
*vapor* from getting out, so anything with even a trace of
humidity will mildew.

I went so far as to replace my coated-cordura panniers with
wire baskets, and put everything I carry into plastic bags.
If I think it will rain -- or if it's so hot that I ride
through every lawn sprinkler I can -- I put books and other
easily-damaged stuff in *three* plastic bags, with the
outermost bag bottom-up to serve as a roof.

For waterproof, disposable beats durable.


Actually, I don't know what stitch to use. I've seen
'topstitching' recommended a few times. I don't really know what that
is except a stitch that appears to expose the thread to the outside
world.

That's all that it means: stitching that ends up where it
shows. Usually means straight stitch worked on the right
side by machine. If you use a fancy stitch, or sew by hand,
it's more likely to be called "embroidery".

(In sewing, "right side" means the side of the fabric that
will end up on the outside of the garment, or on the side
that shows in objects that don't have an inside and an
outside. The "wrong side" is intended to end up inside, or
on the side that doesn't show. Some fabrics have a
definite wrong side and right side, some you have to make a
decision and stick by it, some it doesn't matter -- with
fabrics that are the same on both sides, it's a good idea to
put chalk arrows all over one side and thereafter regard it
as the wrong side -- just in case there's a difference that
you didn't notice.)


Even having the excess material of the seams on the outside
would probably be OK as long as I could dress them properly for
durability.

More for appearance than durability.

True, nylon is noted for raveling so easily that it seems to
explode, and sometimes nylon will slip sideways and leave
bare threads at the seam even when the edges are finished or
sealed and it has to do it by crowding the threads in the
seam allowance closer together -- BUT you are using coated
nylon, and the coating glues the threads together.

One way to stop nylon from raveling -- which I haven't used
myself, since I never got around to cutting the nylon I
bought to make a windbreaker -- is to fuse the edges with a
soldering iron or wood-burning pen or the teeny-tiny
iron-on-a-stick sold to quilters. I've heard of a hot knife
for cutting nylon and sealing the edges simultaneously.

The excess material put in to allow for seams is called the
"seam allowance".


Our machine does have a zigzag stitch option. Everyone sees to like
them...what's the big advantage over a couple of rows of straight
stitches? Strength? I ask because I think straight stitchs may be a
little easier on the machine.

Sometimes zig-zag is used on stretchy fabric, because it can
get longer by opening the zigs. (It can also get shorter
by closing the zigs, if the fabric was sewn under tension.)
Sometimes zig-zag is used to hold two edges together, and
sometimes it is used to overcast an edge or to stabilize a
fringe. On an inelastic fabric like Cordura? Go to a
garage sale and invest twenty dollars in a fifty-year-old
straight-stitch machine; it's all you'll need, and will
stand the strain better than a fancy new machine.


4) I had planned on using a heavy duty nylon thread...seemed logical,
but now I'm wondering.

As long as it isn't too thick for your tensioning devices.

The "tension disks" hold tension on the thread that runs
through the needle; the bobbin case contains a tensioning
device for the bobbin thread. This tiny tensioning device
is very hard to set properly, so beginners are well advised
to leave the bobbin-case tension alone and change the upper
tension to match it.

I'm a big fan of sewing fabric with the same fiber it is
made of, so that the fabric and the thread can be cleaned by
the same methods.

Joy Beeson
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ -- needlework
http://home.earthlink.net/~dbeeson59...HSEW/ROUGH.HTM
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ -- Writers' Exchange
joy beeson at earthlink dot net

On 16 Aug 2005 20:10:42 -0700, wrote:

1) I envision the bag as a simple pouch probably made from one piece of
material folded in half. If for some reason I turn out to be a
stitching virtuoso then I may try to add a bottom piece (to make it
flat). On the top would be a second fold over piece with at least a
clasp, maybe a zipper. The pouch is intended to protect a case with
dimensions of about 2"x12"x16".

There's an easy way to turn a tube into a flat-bottomed bag; take a look
at a paper grocery sack. Here's the method:
http://craftandfabriclinks.com/totebag/totebag.html

Check http://www.make-it-easy.com for "free stuff", and the tote directions
there. They were written by Nancy Restuccia, who writes very logical,
thorough, easy to follow instructions (imho) -- I just can't get the site
to answer at the moment. I'll also direct you to your friendly
public library: ask them to get you a copy of Restuccia's book, "Hold it!".
Excellent, but out of print in the original form, though still available
on CD and a color printout of the CD. It sounds like you want to make
her Camp Storage Bag, pp. 8-10, or her Expandable Zippered Tote, in different
fabrics and sizes than her choices.


2) The cordura I was thinking of using is coated on one side. I wanted
to make the case waterproof as well as tough against rips and scratches
so I figured I'd eventually make a small fully waterproof inner slip
sleeve that would go around the case first, before going into the
protective cordura pouch. For now I'll probably just use a plastic
bag.

Good plan. Some of the coated corduras tend to stick to the sewing machine
foot or the plate. If that happens, a roller foot or a teflon foot comes
in handy. Or you can put strips of tissue paper over and under your fabric,
sew through the whole bunch, and strip off the tissue paper.

There are waterproof or water resistant zippers made; I've not used them.
One possible source is Rose City Textiles (http://www.fabricline.com --
probably won't have them listed, but drop an email.) Rose City is
local to me, and I've gotten a lot of help there on suggestions of what
to use on a higher tech project.

3) I'd like the fit to be pretty tight so if the the seams are on the
inside I guess they'd need to be folded over to lay flat somehow. I
don't know if my machine stands a chance there but we'll see. If that
doesn't work then I probably can settle for a slightly looser fit to
allow for seams. Actually, I don't know what stitch to use. I've seen
'topstitching' recommended a few times. I don't really know what that
is except a stitch that appears to expose the thread to the outside
world. Even having the excess material of the seams on the outside
would probably be OK as long as I could dress them properly for
durability.

Make some sample seams on scraps first before you decide. One of the
favorites for heavy duty stuff is flat-felled seams -- like you see
in jeans with two parallel lines of stitching. All raw edges are enclosed.
http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/...latfelled.html or
http://www.sewneau.com/how.to/flat.felled.seam.html

Our machine does have a zigzag stitch option. Everyone sees to like
them...what's the big advantage over a couple of rows of straight
stitches? Strength? I ask because I think straight stitchs may be a
little easier on the machine.

You've had some good answers on this already... but let me add that
zigzags are also useful when you're dealing with fabric that is very
closely woven (think some of the shell fabrics for jackets). When you
stitch on them exactly on-grain (parallel to the threads), they tend to
want to pucker on you because you're trying to stuff more thread into
that fabric than the fabric can handle. By changing to a narrow zigzag
stitch, you're only stuffing half as much thread along one particular
fabric thread (warp or weft) -- the other stitch is being made a few
threads over, so you get less puckering.

4) I had planned on using a heavy duty nylon thread...seemed logical,
but now I'm wondering.

Some machines can handle it, some can't. Penny Schwyn has a nice section
on thread choice in that tips section at specialtyoutdoors.com .
I can tell you from personal experience that plain ol' Gutermann poly
thread, the sort sold for dressmaking, and two rows of stitching (e.g.,
a flat felled seam) will support 50 lbs easily.

Kay

You guy's have been fantastic with your comments and suggestions.
Can't thank you enough. I've got some sample material on order and
will be collecting the other recommended items in the meantime.

When I actually start the work I'm sure I'll have more questions. Till
then take care.