Real Masters?

If you want to find real masters of their trade, and who probably
wouldn't consider themselves as such, try the Etruscans around 650BC.
There are examples of their gold filigree work in the British Museum,
for example, that nobody appears able to make today. This superb work
was done without the gas torches, pure metals ans solder that we have
today, they just used a fire and whatever gold they could find.
Sure impresses me :-)
Richard in Los Angeles (a frequent lurker)

wrote:

There are examples of their gold filigree work in the British Museum,
for example, that nobody appears able to make today.

I know that the granulation has been matched (in technique at least) by
John Paul Miller in the 1950s, and others, but you may still be right
about the filigree.

...was done without the gas torches, pure metals ans solder that we
have today

Your point about the tools is significant.

How would you like to get along without even a jewelers saw or a draw
plate? No Rio Grande, no propane, -- they just had to pump up the coals
and fly by the seat of their togas.

wrote:
If you want to find real masters of their trade, and who probably
wouldn't consider themselves as such, try the Etruscans around 650BC.
There are examples of their gold filigree work in the British Museum,
for example, that nobody appears able to make today. This superb work
was done without the gas torches, pure metals ans solder that we have
today, they just used a fire and whatever gold they could find.
Sure impresses me :-)
Richard in Los Angeles (a frequent lurker)

Right you are!
http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/art/jewels.html
....and particularly...
http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/art/bologna.jpg

Good delurking debut.
You'd probably also enjoy
http://www.add.gr/jewel/elka/page64.htm
There was probably a lot of communication between the two cultures.
--
mbstevens
http://www.mbstevens.com/

"mbstevens" wrote in message
...
wrote:

How would you like to get along without even a jewelers saw or a draw
plate? No Rio Grande, no propane, -- they just had to pump up the coals
and fly by the seat of their togas.

Having started out in this game because a Historical Trust wanted a
silversmith and I was the nearest thing they could find I'm actually
reasonably well qualified to say.

Soldering was done in an open kiln, there are pictures of them operating
one in the British Museum book 'Goldsmiths'.

No piercing saws, but drills and files and gravers and hammers and stakes
are all there, graver/scorper handles look just the same. There's pitch to
hold your work, and I still use a medieval style ring peg with an iron ring
and a wedge rather than something with a machine screw because it gives a
better 'feel'.

Rouge is easy to make, it's essentially ground up rust, and you've got
plenty of apprentices to do nothing but sit and polish all day.

It's all horribly labour intensive, but you're talking about societies
where labour costs are very low.

Lots of stuff then was gilded. Mercuric gilding probably meant it wasn't
the safest job in the world either...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea

William Black wrote:
"mbstevens" wrote in message
...

wrote:


How would you like to get along without even a jewelers saw or a draw
plate? No Rio Grande, no propane, -- they just had to pump up the coals
and fly by the seat of their togas.


Having started out in this game because a Historical Trust wanted a
silversmith and I was the nearest thing they could find I'm actually
reasonably well qualified to say.

Soldering was done in an open kiln, there are pictures of them operating
one in the British Museum book 'Goldsmiths'.

No piercing saws, but drills and files and gravers and hammers and stakes
are all there, graver/scorper handles look just the same. There's pitch to
hold your work, and I still use a medieval style ring peg with an iron ring
and a wedge rather than something with a machine screw because it gives a
better 'feel'.

Rouge is easy to make, it's essentially ground up rust,


It's ground up Hematite, to be exact. And yes, that's Iron Oxide
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Hematite (many other references)

and you've got
plenty of apprentices to do nothing but sit and polish all day.

It's all horribly labour intensive, but you're talking about societies
where labour costs are very low.

Lots of stuff then was gilded. Mercuric gilding probably meant it wasn't
the safest job in the world either...

Eventually they all went mad. that's where the expressing "Mad as a
hatter" comes from. They also used mercury extensively in the hat
making process.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

mbstevens wrote:
wrote:


There are examples of their gold filigree work in the British Museum,
for example, that nobody appears able to make today.


I know that the granulation has been matched (in technique at least) by
John Paul Miller in the 1950s, and others,

Not quite. Even though JP Miller (is one of the greatest American
goldsmiths who worked with granulation (and don't forget enamels) he
(nor anyone else) never got the size of his granules as small as the
Etruscans did. Not even by a factor of ten or more.

http://www.enews.heywoodenamels.com/V1_No6_May_2002/

The size of the Etruscan granules has never been matched.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:07:40 -0700, in ôõ Abrasha wrote:

Eventually they all went mad. that's where the expressing "Mad as a
hatter" comes from. They also used mercury extensively in the hat
making process.

True enough about the effects of mercury poisoning on the gilding trades. But
"mad as a hatter", while it describes the gilders well enough, originated in the
hat making trade, where mercury was a part of the process in making the felt from
which the hats were made. I don't know the exact details, but that's where the
phrase actually comes from, or so I believe.

Peter

Abrasha wrote:
mbstevens wrote:

The size of the Etruscan granules has never been matched.


I was able to find this...
http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archi...1/msg00039.htm

Abrasha wrote:
mbstevens wrote:

wrote:



There are examples of their gold filigree work in the British Museum,
for example, that nobody appears able to make today.


I know that the granulation has been matched (in technique at least) by
John Paul Miller in the 1950s, and others,


Not quite. Even though JP Miller (is one of the greatest American
goldsmiths who worked with granulation (and don't forget enamels) he
(nor anyone else) never got the size of his granules as small as the
Etruscans did. Not even by a factor of ten or more.

http://www.enews.heywoodenamels.com/V1_No6_May_2002/

The size of the Etruscan granules has never been matched.

Nice link to JPM, but I don't find anything about the size of the
etruscan granules there...do you know of an online article or book that
discusses this, or did I somehow miss it in the articles associated with
the link above?

In article , William Black
wrote:
Rouge is easy to make, it's essentially ground up rust

I thought rouge was made by calcining, (i.e. roasting) green vitriol, the
old name for ferrous sulphate, different colours (and so, probably,
different hardnesses/ particle sizes) being obtained by different times and
temperatures of the calcining.

G.H.Ireland

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