Soldering Jump Rings

Well, the gas tanks have finally arrived and the "studio" (read
"previously dining room,") is set up, although still missing any type
of bench grinder or rolling mill (and likely a few other things that I
don't even know, yet, that I will need).

While I was waiting for equipment and tools to arrive, I put together
a passel of "component" earrings, just to make the time go by. The
only thing left to do was solder the jump rings closed - which I have
been attempting to do.

I would have thought that this would be one of the most basic and
simple things to do, yet, here I am asking advice on my very first
task. I have looked it up in some books, as well as on the internet,
and have tried several suggestions including using a graphite pencil
lead instead of a pick, and wedging a tiny pallon between the two
sides of the jump ring. I have certainly been able to solder some
jump rings closed, but far from 100% success rate - more like 65% or
70%. And only by trial and error have I gotten that. Here is what I
have been doing....

First, I am using a Smith Little Torch, #4 tip, with Acetylene/Oxygen.
I put the sterling jump ring into a tweezer with the join facing up
and, with a brush, dab on a little bit of Rio Grande "Ready-Flux." I
hit it for a second with the flame, just until the flux bubbles a
little bit. Then I heat up a pallon until orange on a soldering
block, and pick it up with my pick. I lock my torch hand and my pick
hand and, trying to hold steady, heat the pallon at the join.
Sometimes, the pallon then melts onto the join and I can coax it, with
the pick, into spanning smoothly. Other times the pallon beads up and
falls off, or flows and lumps onto the side or bottom. Still other
times I melt the jump ring. Even the ones that work are often not
perfect. If you hold it up and look at it, the side with the solder
is slightly thicker than the other. I'm not sure the average person
would notice, but I do.

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?
Sigh. I didn't imagine I would be needing advice so soon.

On a brighter note....I am working on my first "real" (non-component)
piece, and, so far, it is coming along pretty well!

Thanks in advance!

Raane

Practice practice practice. You might be better off putting the solder in
place before you heat anything and then only use the pick to move the solder
back into place if it moves. If the solder bit is not fluxed then it
oxidizes between the picking and the placing and the remaining unreacted
flux on the jump-ring is not enough to do its job. Another thing to think of
is to use an Acetylene rich flame, one with a good feather, because that
will help keep oxidation from occurring in the Silver as you heat it. Keep
the flame moving. Solder will flow toward the hottest place it is in contact
with while molten and the pick should not be necessary to move solder in the
molten state on something as small as a jump-ring very often if ever.

--

Don Thompson

"The only stupid questions are those that should have been asked, but
weren't, or those that have been asked and answered over and over, but the
answers not listened to." Peter Rowe


"Raane" wrote in message
...
Well, the gas tanks have finally arrived and the "studio" (read
"previously dining room,") is set up, although still missing any type
of bench grinder or rolling mill (and likely a few other things that I
don't even know, yet, that I will need).

While I was waiting for equipment and tools to arrive, I put together
a passel of "component" earrings, just to make the time go by. The
only thing left to do was solder the jump rings closed - which I have
been attempting to do.

I would have thought that this would be one of the most basic and
simple things to do, yet, here I am asking advice on my very first
task. I have looked it up in some books, as well as on the internet,
and have tried several suggestions including using a graphite pencil
lead instead of a pick, and wedging a tiny pallon between the two
sides of the jump ring. I have certainly been able to solder some
jump rings closed, but far from 100% success rate - more like 65% or
70%. And only by trial and error have I gotten that. Here is what I
have been doing....

First, I am using a Smith Little Torch, #4 tip, with Acetylene/Oxygen.
I put the sterling jump ring into a tweezer with the join facing up
and, with a brush, dab on a little bit of Rio Grande "Ready-Flux." I
hit it for a second with the flame, just until the flux bubbles a
little bit. Then I heat up a pallon until orange on a soldering
block, and pick it up with my pick. I lock my torch hand and my pick
hand and, trying to hold steady, heat the pallon at the join.
Sometimes, the pallon then melts onto the join and I can coax it, with
the pick, into spanning smoothly. Other times the pallon beads up and
falls off, or flows and lumps onto the side or bottom. Still other
times I melt the jump ring. Even the ones that work are often not
perfect. If you hold it up and look at it, the side with the solder
is slightly thicker than the other. I'm not sure the average person
would notice, but I do.

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?
Sigh. I didn't imagine I would be needing advice so soon.

On a brighter note....I am working on my first "real" (non-component)
piece, and, so far, it is coming along pretty well!

Thanks in advance!

Raane

Right, so as your really trying ill point you in the right direction.
1. use a paillion of silver brazing alloy placed between the ends of the
cuts of the jump ring. Only use just enough to go between the ends. Make
sure the paillion is oxide free, ie clean and firmly held.
2.only then flux it. Preferrably with a reactive flux, NOT a passive one
like borax. The reactive fluxes are so much easier to use and will give
100% perfect results every time.What you can get over the water where
you are depends on a lot of things. here I use Johnson Matthey
commercial stainless steel brazing flux on just about everything except
aluminium bronze. ?this needs something special.
3. Heat it with the fully burned part of a neutral flame, not oxidising
nor reducing flame coming in slowly so as not to melt the whole work.
Preferably a smaller tip running at a higher pressure,Thats assuming
your using a pair of tweezers held together with an elastic band. Only
tight enough to stop it from falling out of their grip. If its too tight
it will mark the jump ring.
4. Put your torch into its bench side holder and dunk the jump ring asap
into cold water. This will thermally crack off a lot of the flux
residues. Leave in water till youve a few then bring them gently to the
boil, rinse off to see if all the flux is gone.
5. If its a jump ring without anything else through it, put on a tapered
tooth pick, and hold it against your polishing mop whilst it spins on
the wood. this will polish it inside as well as the outside.
you can use this polishing technique on all rings right up to bracelet
size. However you will need to make up the right size mandrels to suit,
in hard wood first.
Good luck and keep us informed how you get on.

Raane wrote:
=

=

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?
Sigh. I didn't imagine I would be needing advice so soon.
=


It is indeed practice, practice, practice (many years of it), and you are=
most
likely doing things wrong.

Beginners do not realize that solder picks are not tools that push meltin=
g
solder into seams. That is not the purpose of a solder pick. The only p=
urpose
of this tool is to move pallions (notice spelling, it's a French word), i=
nto the
right spot in relation to the seam as the piece is heated and the pallion=
tends
to float away from the intended spot. So it is a tool for placement only=
,
BEFORE the solder melts into the seam.

You control the flow of the solder with the heat of your torch only. Not=
hing
else. The solder will flow, where it is hottest. This is very difficult=
with a
Little Torch, because these torches have a small sharp oxidizing pointy f=
lame,
instead of a reducing soft enveloping flame. (Didn't I tell you NOT to g=
et a
Little Torch? I have had one sitting in my bottom bench drawer for over =
20
years now, haven't figured out a use for it yet.) So if your solder flow=
s
towards one side of the seam of the jump ring, it clearly means that you =
heated
the jump ring unevenly. I bet, that the solder flowed towards the side A=
WAY
from your tweezers. That is so, because the tweezers act as an enormous =
heat
sink, that draws away heat from the seam to be soldered. So, in order to=
heat
the seam evenly, so the solder will flow into it, you must heat the side =
of the
jump ring that is towards the tweezers a bit more than the other side. H=
ow
much? That is practice, and will vary for every damn jump ring you will =
ever
solder. It depends on size, material, thickness, moon phases and whether=

Mercury is retrograde or not!

Read this article online: =93Solder flows toward heat!=94
http://www.lapidaryjournal.com/tech/1299tech.cfm
The article has several serious mistakes and flaws, but it will have some=
value
for you. One of the mistakes being the illustrations, which are rediculou=
s,
since "Little Torches" are used for solder jobs that are much too large f=
or
them, and will never work as illustrated. =


BTW, in Germany we used to call the solder pick "Gottesfinger" - God's fi=
nger. =

Forget about the pencil leads, use a Tungsten pick, they will last foreve=
r. For
years I have used old needle files and bicycle wheel spokes, but since th=
ese are
made of steel, they are to be avoided.

Another thing that you do wrong in my opinion, although many goldsmiths d=
o this,
is balling the solder up on your charcoal block, and picking it up with y=
our
pick to place it onto the seam. By doing that you are melting the solder=
at a
time when it is not yet necessary, some cadmium will evaporate and the so=
lder
will no longer be the same as it was intended to be. By the time it flow=
s into
the seam, it has already been overheated, which can lead to seam pits. F=
or
placing solder, all you need is a bit of flux around the seam, which hold=
s the
solder quite easily during the heating process. Get yourself a very fine=
set of
pointy watchmakers tweezers, round the points so they will not bend or br=
eak on
you, and use these tweezers to place your solder. Do not use these tweez=
ers for
anything else, like picking up hot work, or you will destroy them.

You will also have to learn to judge the size of the solder pallion to us=
e. =

That is very difficult for beginners, especially when soldering jumprings=
,
because you cannot place the solder in a place where it becomes invisible=
after
soldering or where it can easily be cleaned up. (Which is the rule, abou=
t where
to place solder on any piece to be built)
=

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

A few thoughts Raane,
First off... cleanliness; are your jump rings totally clean? As far as poker
soldering is concerned, I've used a straightened & pointed coat hanger for
years (I've since switched to "fancy" ones a few years back & really the
only difference is the new ones look nicer...LOL). With poker soldering you
want to heat the jump ring to soldering color & touch the pillion to the
joint. Solder will always follow the heat in a clean joint, so if you heat
the joint from below & touch the pillion to the top... the solder will flow
into the joint.
It sounds like you're cutting the pillions too large; a jump ring typically
has a VERY small joint.
Hope that all makes sense & helps,
Ian
www.skylinesilver.com
"Raane" wrote in message
...
Well, the gas tanks have finally arrived and the "studio" (read
"previously dining room,") is set up, although still missing any type
of bench grinder or rolling mill (and likely a few other things that I
don't even know, yet, that I will need).

While I was waiting for equipment and tools to arrive, I put together
a passel of "component" earrings, just to make the time go by. The
only thing left to do was solder the jump rings closed - which I have
been attempting to do.

I would have thought that this would be one of the most basic and
simple things to do, yet, here I am asking advice on my very first
task. I have looked it up in some books, as well as on the internet,
and have tried several suggestions including using a graphite pencil
lead instead of a pick, and wedging a tiny pallon between the two
sides of the jump ring. I have certainly been able to solder some
jump rings closed, but far from 100% success rate - more like 65% or
70%. And only by trial and error have I gotten that. Here is what I
have been doing....

First, I am using a Smith Little Torch, #4 tip, with Acetylene/Oxygen.
I put the sterling jump ring into a tweezer with the join facing up
and, with a brush, dab on a little bit of Rio Grande "Ready-Flux." I
hit it for a second with the flame, just until the flux bubbles a
little bit. Then I heat up a pallon until orange on a soldering
block, and pick it up with my pick. I lock my torch hand and my pick
hand and, trying to hold steady, heat the pallon at the join.
Sometimes, the pallon then melts onto the join and I can coax it, with
the pick, into spanning smoothly. Other times the pallon beads up and
falls off, or flows and lumps onto the side or bottom. Still other
times I melt the jump ring. Even the ones that work are often not
perfect. If you hold it up and look at it, the side with the solder
is slightly thicker than the other. I'm not sure the average person
would notice, but I do.

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?
Sigh. I didn't imagine I would be needing advice so soon.

On a brighter note....I am working on my first "real" (non-component)
piece, and, so far, it is coming along pretty well!

Thanks in advance!

Raane

Raane wrote:
... The
only thing left to do was solder the jump rings closed - which I have
been attempting to do.
... I have certainly been able to solder some
jump rings closed, but far from 100% success rate - more like 65% or
70%. And only by trial and error have I gotten that. Here is what I
have been doing....

First, I am using a Smith Little Torch, #4 tip, with Acetylene/Oxygen.
I put the sterling jump ring into a tweezer with the join facing up
and, with a brush, dab on a little bit of Rio Grande "Ready-Flux." I
hit it for a second with the flame, just until the flux bubbles a
little bit. Then I heat up a pallon until orange on a soldering
block, and pick it up with my pick. I lock my torch hand and my pick
hand and, trying to hold steady, heat the pallon at the join.
Sometimes, the pallon then melts onto the join and I can coax it, with
the pick, into spanning smoothly. Other times the pallon beads up and
falls off, or flows and lumps onto the side or bottom. Still other
times I melt the jump ring. Even the ones that work are often not
perfect. If you hold it up and look at it, the side with the solder
is slightly thicker than the other. I'm not sure the average person
would notice, but I do.

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?
Sigh. I didn't imagine I would be needing advice so soon.

Being a little heavy on the soldered side, while not perfect, should usually be
acceptable.

Lots of practice will help.

Are your JRs truly _closed_? They need to be touching, preferably with a little
pressu
When closing JRs, first offset the ends and push them past each other slightly,
then offset them slightly in the other direction and tweak until the ends line
up.

Flux the bit of solder.

Brace your pick-hand/arm on the bench, independent of the torch.

Keep the torch moving, bring both sides to temperature at the same time.


At the beginning is when you need the most advice, the need will ease over time
but never go away.

--


If you try to 'reply' to me without fixing the dot, your reply
will go into a 'special' mailbox reserved for spam. See below.


--
Carl West http://carl.west.home.comcast.net

change the 'DOT' to '.' to email me

"Clutter"? This is an object-rich environment.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 15:35:44 GMT, (Raane) wrote:


I would have thought that this would be one of the most basic and
simple things to do, yet, here I am asking advice on my very first
task. I have looked it up in some books, as well as on the internet,
and have tried several suggestions including using a graphite pencil
lead instead of a pick, and wedging a tiny pallon between the two
sides of the jump ring. I have certainly been able to solder some
jump rings closed, but far from 100% success rate - more like 65% or
70%. And only by trial and error have I gotten that. Here is what I
have been doing....

First, I am using a Smith Little Torch, #4 tip, with Acetylene/Oxygen.
I put the sterling jump ring into a tweezer with the join facing up
and, with a brush, dab on a little bit of Rio Grande "Ready-Flux." I
hit it for a second with the flame, just until the flux bubbles a
little bit. Then I heat up a pallon until orange on a soldering
block, and pick it up with my pick. I lock my torch hand and my pick
hand and, trying to hold steady, heat the pallon at the join.
Sometimes, the pallon then melts onto the join and I can coax it, with
the pick, into spanning smoothly. Other times the pallon beads up and
falls off, or flows and lumps onto the side or bottom. Still other
times I melt the jump ring. Even the ones that work are often not
perfect. If you hold it up and look at it, the side with the solder
is slightly thicker than the other. I'm not sure the average person
would notice, but I do.

65 to 70 % sounds about right for a newbie.

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?

Nope, you'r not doing anything wrong. Yep, it's practice, practice,
practice.

Try making a simple chain. Take about 10 to 12 larger rings (4 to 6
mm), thread them on a coathanger stand (a piece of wire bent 90
degress with one end stuck into a 2 by 4 block). Solder each ring,
then join two soldered rings with a third unsoldered rig, then solder.
Repeat. Then join the three rings with another three rings. By the
time you have a 24 inch chain, you should be getting the hang of it.

Leo

"Raane" wrote in message
...
Well, the gas tanks have finally arrived and the "studio" (read
"previously dining room,") is set up, although still missing any
type
of bench grinder or rolling mill (and likely a few other things that
I
don't even know, yet, that I will need).

While I was waiting for equipment and tools to arrive, I put
together
a passel of "component" earrings, just to make the time go by. The
only thing left to do was solder the jump rings closed - which I
have
been attempting to do.

I would have thought that this would be one of the most basic and
simple things to do, yet, here I am asking advice on my very first
task. I have looked it up in some books, as well as on the
internet,
and have tried several suggestions including using a graphite pencil
lead instead of a pick, and wedging a tiny pallon between the two
sides of the jump ring. I have certainly been able to solder some
jump rings closed, but far from 100% success rate - more like 65% or
70%. And only by trial and error have I gotten that. Here is what
I
have been doing....

First, I am using a Smith Little Torch, #4 tip, with
Acetylene/Oxygen.
I put the sterling jump ring into a tweezer with the join facing up
and, with a brush, dab on a little bit of Rio Grande "Ready-Flux."
I
hit it for a second with the flame, just until the flux bubbles a
little bit. Then I heat up a pallon until orange on a soldering
block, and pick it up with my pick. I lock my torch hand and my
pick
hand and, trying to hold steady, heat the pallon at the join.
Sometimes, the pallon then melts onto the join and I can coax it,
with
the pick, into spanning smoothly. Other times the pallon beads up
and
falls off, or flows and lumps onto the side or bottom. Still other
times I melt the jump ring. Even the ones that work are often not
perfect. If you hold it up and look at it, the side with the solder
is slightly thicker than the other. I'm not sure the average person
would notice, but I do.

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?
Sigh. I didn't imagine I would be needing advice so soon.

On a brighter note....I am working on my first "real"
(non-component)
piece, and, so far, it is coming along pretty well!

Thanks in advance!

Hi Raane.

Ok, let's see if I can help you here.

Firstly, - "...and wedging a tiny pallon between the two
sides of the jump ring".

If you tried this and got some failures, then something *is* wrong
because if you 'wedge' a paillon between the two ends of the jump
ring, then it SHOULD solder 100% every time as long as you have enough
flux applied to the join and the ends of the join are really close.
The problem is probably that you're not passing the ends of the jump
rings PAST eachother and then pulling the ends backwards and aligning
them properly to complete the join. If you do this properly, you can
then open the gap 'against' the spring of the jump ring and insert
your paillon - it will hold tight in the gap once the 'spring action'
closes. Now imagine when the solder melts: the two ends of the jump
ring will move closer together because of the spring that you
introduced when aligning the two ends. You should have a nice join.
Don't be afraid to add more flux than a 'dab' - a dab is not good, but
more than necessary 'might' hinder you, so find the right amount of
flux that you're happy with.

Secondly, and personally, I use a 1oz reel of solder wire with a
propane flame (any flame can be used), and 'wire-feed' my soldering,
i.e. I hold a small reel of solder wire in the palm of my hand with
about three inches of wire available and then heat the end of the wire
quickly in the flame, dab it in my 'Easy-Flo' flux powder, (Cookson
Precious Metals, Walsh and Sons, etc.) then apply heat to the
component, apply the flux to the join, keep heating the join, and then
just 'dab' the end of your solder wire to the join when hot enough -
no lumps and bumps. THIS takes practise of course, but well worth
trying if you want 100% soldered joins fast.

Another tip with jump rings? If you have a soldering board, (or if
not, go to your local woodmill, and see if they have 'scraps',
'cut-outs' of 'fire-retardant' board, very cheap this way), then lay
your jump rings, (say, 20 or so), in lines of five ON TOP OF
EACHOTHER, but with the joins upwards of the lower jump ring and
facing you, (the join of the second jump ring in a line will be in the
centre of the first jump ring), and so on down the lines. You then
heat the first jump ring in the first line, which in turn heats the
next jump ring, (get your flame at the right temperature), making the
next jump ring faster to solder.

"Repeat". ~ (Didn't someone get $1000,000 for that word in a
shampoo advertising campaign?)

Again, practise.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your ambitions, there's a lot of
competition out there, especially price-wise, let alone 'design'-wise,
and that's where your problems will start...

-SP-



Raane

On 5-Mar-2004, (Raane) wrote:

Is it just practice, practice, practice, or am I doing things wrong?
Sigh. I didn't imagine I would be needing advice so soon.

LOL, you already know the awnser.

The cleaner things are the better they solder. That includes the solder.
Do not over heat the ring or solder, just hot enought to flow is best.
I have not used that flux, I have used Handy flux and boric acid/borax mix.
Flux is cheap so try a few and see what you like.
The little squares seem to be favored by jewelers, I like wire as that is
what I learned on many moons ago.
The wire is a bit fat for jump rings so I am going to try and draw it out
thinner next time.
I hold the wire behind the ring and wipe the ring repeatedtly as it comes up
to heat. The ring gets most of the heat that way so I dont get a big ball
of solder forming.
Dont use too harsh a flame, dont be right in front of the inner cone. This
is soldering not welding. Sneaking up on the heat may help.
Dont think you are gonna solder perfect on the firts day, get mechanely(sp)
sound joints first then learn to use less solder. Dont be so
hard on yourself, you are right that most others will not see the flaws that
you do! Soldering does take time to master.

Les

In article , "-SP-"
writes:

f you tried this and got some failures, then something *is* wrong
because if you 'wedge' a paillon between the two ends of the jump
ring, then it SHOULD solder 100% every time as long as you have enough
flux applied to the join and the ends of the join are really close.

The other necessary thing is to apply enough heat to the jump ring.