bad etiquette?

Barbara your description sounds a lot like so many Mediterenean
institutes ,where children are a part of every celebration , much more
than in more northern parts ,, something to do with the weather ?????
mirjam

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:28:23 -0500, spampot wrote:

I know I'll be flamed for this, but church is for prayer and meditation,
and I feel that if children can't sit still during it, they should be
left with a babysitter or taken to whatever facility is available (our
church has a nursery or "children's chapel") -- it's VERY distracting to
have children talking out loud or arguing over crayons when one's trying
to concentrate on the service.

I don't want to flame anybody, but I have a different viewpoint.

I attend a small country church in Italy, which has no baby-sitting
facility and no room to put one in. Our church is full of children of
all ages. Those of age 5 or so and up all sit together in a special
section near the altar and the priest tries to make sure his homily
engages them at least a little. He is known to pause to tell them he
can see their attention is wandering but he reminds them gently to
concentrate a bit longer. They all love him dearly and try their best.
After the service, he pulls out a basket of candies to offer to the
children and says he considers this a part of the liturgy.

The younger children have pretty much free reign in the church. You
see little toddlers sitting beside the altar with their pacifiers in
their mouths. Once the priest backed up a bit and stepped on a baby's
hand. (not hard enough to do any damage.) If they get really loud
their parents usually take them outside, but you can't stay out there
very long in the winter.

I love seeing the children in church. They grow up loving the place,
because it's their place as much as it is the grownups' place. They
gradually learn to be quiet and look forward to the day when they're
big enough to join the "big kids" and keep quiet.

If you are accustomed to little ones moving around, you learn how to
concentrate in spite of their movements. Remember that Jesus reproved
his disciples when they tried to remove the little kids from the group
that had come to listen to him.
--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero dot it.

I would think that as a believer one would believe then that God gave you
this talent, and therefore you are bringing your craft to his house to share
with him. I guess so long as it isn't a long complicated pattern that needs
your undivided attention, and you don't stand up in the middle of a sermon
and shout out....For goodness sake shut up a minute....or similar, nothing
would be made of of...

Cheers.....cher x


"Gwendoline Kelly" wrote in message
...
Mirjam I always thought Bus Stops, Train Stations, and waiting rooms,
train
journeys and picture theatres ( to mention only a few of lots of places)
were really built for us to enjoy knitting etc while in the area !!!! How
boring to just *sit* there!!! God Bless Gwen

--

Gwen Kelly


"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
I Rememberin former times , that in kieboets meetings almost all the
women knitted [ and the odd man as well] , This was the only way to
get sweaters as times were hard . You got cupons for the amount of
wool and if you hadn`t a mate you were asked to knit for one of the
single man as well. Of course all kids had knited sweaters which were
handed down as soon as one outgrew them. And you saw woman knitting in
buses , in the waiting rooms etc... it is coming back now [ of course
many of us never stopped , only moderated the places we did it !!!] .
Strangely enough when we were in the USA 20 ++ years ago i sat and
knitted several times i was told by Usa women that it was Primitive
behaviour [ i am sure many of those are now Primitivized themselves
and knit as well !!!] , I know some women who are around my age who
still think so ,, that it sort of " isn`t Done"[ i am not speaking
about Church ,and such places but waiting rooms etc]. There was a
time that even the feminist movement saw it as a form of enslaving
one`s time ,, now that we can relax some of our Feminist idea [ not
that we have all the rights] , we can expect other to understand that
this is a FREE CHOICE of us to use those minutes or hours , with doing
something we DO ENJOY , as well as it is making some essential to our
way of life ,,,
mirjam

Now, THAT was a picture! (LOL)

--Carey N. in MA

"cher" wrote in message
...
snip
with him. I guess so long as it isn't a long complicated pattern that
needs
your undivided attention, and you don't stand up in the middle of a sermon
and shout out....For goodness sake shut up a minute....or similar, nothing
would be made of of...

Cheers.....cher x

LOL I don't think she rested - I think she was exhausted! g

Katherine

Gwendoline Kelly wrote:
Katherine - now I am confused - I always thought God was a man
because he rested on the seventh day and a woman can never do that!!!
God Bless Gwen


"Katherine" wrote in message
...
Ranee Mueller wrote:
In article L6eCd.22779$rL3.6051@trnddc03, "Betty"
wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice to find a church were everyone knits? Maybe
that's what heaven will be like.

I'm sure it will. After all God is a Knitter, He knit us in our
mother's wombs.

This is true, and one of the quotes I use to "prove" that God is a
woman. g

Katherine

Good for your daughter! Obviously you raised her well!

Katherine

Gwendoline Kelly wrote:
Ooooo ! Katherine You have made me realise one thing for certain -
that is that I have *bravely???* given my opinion here but I am far
too chicken to tell it to a few in church - even adults to who
insist on talking - I have to admit that DD#2 has no such inhibitions
( guess she remembers her childhood ) Once at Midnight Mass in the
Cathedral in Salzburg she turned around and told a couple that " this
is a church and most of us wish to hear Mass and therefore would
appreciate it if you kept your conversations until later" God
Bless Gwen


"Katherine" wrote in message
...
spampot wrote:
Katherine wrote:
B Vaughan wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:28:23 -0500, spampot
wrote:
I know I'll be flamed for this, but church is for prayer and
meditation, and I feel that if children can't sit still during
it, they should be left with a babysitter or taken to whatever
facility is available (our church has a nursery or "children's
chapel") -- it's VERY distracting to have children talking out
loud or arguing over crayons when one's trying to concentrate on
the service.

I don't want to flame anybody, but I have a different viewpoint.

I attend a small country church in Italy, which has no
baby-sitting facility and no room to put one in. Our church is
full of children of all ages. Those of age 5 or so and up all sit
together in a special section near the altar and the priest tries
to make sure his homily engages them at least a little. He is
known to pause to tell them he can see their attention is
wandering but he reminds them gently to concentrate a bit longer.
They all love him dearly and try their best. After the service,
he pulls out a basket of candies to offer to the children and
says he considers this a part of the liturgy. The younger
children have pretty much free reign in the church. You
see little toddlers sitting beside the altar with their pacifiers
in their mouths. Once the priest backed up a bit and stepped on a
baby's hand. (not hard enough to do any damage.) If they get
really loud their parents usually take them outside, but you
can't stay out there very long in the winter.

I love seeing the children in church. They grow up loving the
place, because it's their place as much as it is the grownups'
place. They gradually learn to be quiet and look forward to the
day when they're big enough to join the "big kids" and keep quiet.

If you are accustomed to little ones moving around, you learn how
to concentrate in spite of their movements. Remember that Jesus
reproved his disciples when they tried to remove the little kids
from the group that had come to listen to him.


ANd that works in your church, Barbara, and I think it is
wonderful! It does not work in mine. But then, things would be
really boring if we were all the same, wouldn't they?

Katherine



Exactly, Katherine. Obviously the mother in your church is missing
the point if she doesn't take her disruptive kid into the parents'
room! I know no one likes to make a fuss in church, but surely
someone should speak to that mother.

I wouldn't dare! I am brave, but not that brave!

Katherine

On 03 Jan 2005 06:10:34 GMT, t (JudyTurpin) wrote:

What we do is to have the kids (over about 2) come in the chapel for the first
part of the service. The pastor then takes time to sit on the floor with them
and talk with them and tell them a story and lead a prayer. After that they
are excused for special activities and we proceed with sermon etc. There is
usually a nursery for the really little ones. We are a small church and that
works for us. We want the kids to feel like they are a part of the church
family - but all of us are happier if they don't have to sit through all of it
before they are ready to participate.

That is what we do, too. After the children's story we adults sing
them out of the sanctuary and to their classes, maybe three separate
age-appropriate groups.
We did have a knitter... making Harry Potter scarves (burgundy and
gold for .... oh oh, now I can't remember Harry Potter's house). No
one cared. My church is Unitarian-Universalist, so Harry Potter
would be quite well accepted.
However, I found that when I tried to knit at a recent gathering of
one of my women's groups, I kept goofing up and having to rip it out.
I just can't "multi-task", I guess. ha ha
Kira

Hahahaha! Mirjam, I had a physics professor like that in college. This
doesn't have much to do with knitting, but this was a summer class at 8:00
in the morning, so needless to say, many of us were pretty sleepy. Sleeping
became a problem in this class from time to time, and my professor would
perform physics experiments on unwitting sleeping students in our class. He
was demonstrating trajectory once and used a high powered water gun to show
the arc that an object would travel...of course, his real reason for doing
this was to wake some poor student in the third row! hehehehe

Allaya

"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
Many years ago , i studied in the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. In
Modern History class with Proffesor Talmon [" What Lead to WW2,
Totalitarian States"] . The lecture was very popular , and one had to
Catch a place ,,, Of course at those times some female students
knitted. Proffsessor Talmon . short Napoleonic Figure [ and yes He
would walk with one hand in his shirt at times !!!] Extremely
Charismatic, Raised one day his voice and pointed at a Blond student
who was knitting ,,,, and spoke about the women who knitted by the
Guiliotine in France during the Revolution !!! Than he said asked her
to Raise her knitting , and show it to all !!! one day same woman
lost her necklace ,, many beads rolled all over the lecture hall ,,,
everybody laughed and many ducked to collect her beads ,,,,';I hope
you knitting is better made than this necklace`s thread !!!!was the
comment of the proffesor ..
mirjam


I would think that as a believer one would believe then that God gave you
this talent, and therefore you are bringing your craft to his house to
share
with him. I guess so long as it isn't a long complicated pattern that
needs
your undivided attention, and you don't stand up in the middle of a
sermon
and shout out....For goodness sake shut up a minute....or similar,
nothing
would be made of of...

Cheers.....cher x


"Gwendoline Kelly" wrote in message
u...
Mirjam I always thought Bus Stops, Train Stations, and waiting rooms,
train
journeys and picture theatres ( to mention only a few of lots of
places)
were really built for us to enjoy knitting etc while in the area !!!!
How
boring to just *sit* there!!! God Bless Gwen

--

Gwen Kelly


"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
I Rememberin former times , that in kieboets meetings almost all the
women knitted [ and the odd man as well] , This was the only way to
get sweaters as times were hard . You got cupons for the amount of
wool and if you hadn`t a mate you were asked to knit for one of the
single man as well. Of course all kids had knited sweaters which were
handed down as soon as one outgrew them. And you saw woman knitting
in
buses , in the waiting rooms etc... it is coming back now [ of course
many of us never stopped , only moderated the places we did it !!!] .
Strangely enough when we were in the USA 20 ++ years ago i sat and
knitted several times i was told by Usa women that it was Primitive
behaviour [ i am sure many of those are now Primitivized themselves
and knit as well !!!] , I know some women who are around my age who
still think so ,, that it sort of " isn`t Done"[ i am not speaking
about Church ,and such places but waiting rooms etc]. There was a
time that even the feminist movement saw it as a form of enslaving
one`s time ,, now that we can relax some of our Feminist idea [ not
that we have all the rights] , we can expect other to understand that
this is a FREE CHOICE of us to use those minutes or hours , with
doing
something we DO ENJOY , as well as it is making some essential to our
way of life ,,,
mirjam

I was in BOSTON ,, Mass,,,,, and people several times remarked this
??? have no clue why ,, not that it bothered me much.. one time when
it was rude , i signed to her that i didn`t speak English ,, so she
turned to the woman next to her and said something about 'This
Foreigner".....
Of course in BU i was in PIA and studied Weaving and was ENCOURAGED to
knit and Crochet , but once my teacher saw my abilities [ experience]
he encouraged me to help the others !!!!
mirjam

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 07:55:09 GMT, (Mirjam
Bruck-Cohen) wrote:

Strangely enough when we were in the USA 20 ++ years ago i sat and
knitted several times i was told by Usa women that it was Primitive
behaviour [ i am sure many of those are now Primitivized themselves
and knit as well !!!]

I don't know where you were in the US. I lived there for over 50
years, until 6 years ago, and anywhere I was knitting was always
accepted behavior. When I was at university, some of my fellow
students used to knit during lectures.

--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero dot it.

Dear Gwen you areabsolutely right ,,,,,
and ... when we came back from Usa , there BAD Inflation in Israel and
we had to go to Bank every day and stand in lines ,,, i hang my
knitting in a cloth bag on my shoulder and when all were nervous i
silently knitted , standing ijn line [ not sitting] held my nerves
calm,,, at least my standing was not wasted tottaly ... mirjam

doline Kelly" wrote:

Mirjam I always thought Bus Stops, Train Stations, and waiting rooms, train
journeys and picture theatres ( to mention only a few of lots of places)
were really built for us to enjoy knitting etc while in the area !!!! How
boring to just *sit* there!!! God Bless Gwen

--

Gwen Kelly


"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
I Rememberin former times , that in kieboets meetings almost all the
women knitted [ and the odd man as well] , This was the only way to
get sweaters as times were hard . You got cupons for the amount of
wool and if you hadn`t a mate you were asked to knit for one of the
single man as well. Of course all kids had knited sweaters which were
handed down as soon as one outgrew them. And you saw woman knitting in
buses , in the waiting rooms etc... it is coming back now [ of course
many of us never stopped , only moderated the places we did it !!!] .
Strangely enough when we were in the USA 20 ++ years ago i sat and
knitted several times i was told by Usa women that it was Primitive
behaviour [ i am sure many of those are now Primitivized themselves
and knit as well !!!] , I know some women who are around my age who
still think so ,, that it sort of " isn`t Done"[ i am not speaking
about Church ,and such places but waiting rooms etc]. There was a
time that even the feminist movement saw it as a form of enslaving
one`s time ,, now that we can relax some of our Feminist idea [ not
that we have all the rights] , we can expect other to understand that
this is a FREE CHOICE of us to use those minutes or hours , with doing
something we DO ENJOY , as well as it is making some essential to our
way of life ,,,
mirjam

Many years ago , i studied in the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. In
Modern History class with Proffesor Talmon [" What Lead to WW2,
Totalitarian States"] . The lecture was very popular , and one had to
Catch a place ,,, Of course at those times some female students
knitted. Proffsessor Talmon . short Napoleonic Figure [ and yes He
would walk with one hand in his shirt at times !!!] Extremely
Charismatic, Raised one day his voice and pointed at a Blond student
who was knitting ,,,, and spoke about the women who knitted by the
Guiliotine in France during the Revolution !!! Than he said asked her
to Raise her knitting , and show it to all !!! one day same woman
lost her necklace ,, many beads rolled all over the lecture hall ,,,
everybody laughed and many ducked to collect her beads ,,,,';I hope
you knitting is better made than this necklace`s thread !!!!was the
comment of the proffesor ..
mirjam


I would think that as a believer one would believe then that God gave you
this talent, and therefore you are bringing your craft to his house to share
with him. I guess so long as it isn't a long complicated pattern that needs
your undivided attention, and you don't stand up in the middle of a sermon
and shout out....For goodness sake shut up a minute....or similar, nothing
would be made of of...

Cheers.....cher x


"Gwendoline Kelly" wrote in message
u...
Mirjam I always thought Bus Stops, Train Stations, and waiting rooms,
train
journeys and picture theatres ( to mention only a few of lots of places)
were really built for us to enjoy knitting etc while in the area !!!! How
boring to just *sit* there!!! God Bless Gwen

--

Gwen Kelly


"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
I Rememberin former times , that in kieboets meetings almost all the
women knitted [ and the odd man as well] , This was the only way to
get sweaters as times were hard . You got cupons for the amount of
wool and if you hadn`t a mate you were asked to knit for one of the
single man as well. Of course all kids had knited sweaters which were
handed down as soon as one outgrew them. And you saw woman knitting in
buses , in the waiting rooms etc... it is coming back now [ of course
many of us never stopped , only moderated the places we did it !!!] .
Strangely enough when we were in the USA 20 ++ years ago i sat and
knitted several times i was told by Usa women that it was Primitive
behaviour [ i am sure many of those are now Primitivized themselves
and knit as well !!!] , I know some women who are around my age who
still think so ,, that it sort of " isn`t Done"[ i am not speaking
about Church ,and such places but waiting rooms etc]. There was a
time that even the feminist movement saw it as a form of enslaving
one`s time ,, now that we can relax some of our Feminist idea [ not
that we have all the rights] , we can expect other to understand that
this is a FREE CHOICE of us to use those minutes or hours , with doing
something we DO ENJOY , as well as it is making some essential to our
way of life ,,,
mirjam