Need professional opinion (or at least somewhat informed)

I'm thinking of buy this ring from this online jeweler (with ruby) for $699.
I've checked some reviews on the folks, seem on the level--of course
a couple of disgruntled customers (mainly stones falling out) but I
guess that's expected. Most customers seem pleased.

What do you think of the ring and price?

http://www.jewelsforme.com/item-main... nth=&Ad=&CU=#

In article ,
"David G" wrote:

I'm thinking of buy this ring from this online jeweler (with ruby) for $699.
I've checked some reviews on the folks, seem on the level--of course
a couple of disgruntled customers (mainly stones falling out) but I
guess that's expected. Most customers seem pleased.

What do you think of the ring and price?

http://www.jewelsforme.com/item-main...=05&Metal=Y&It
emMonth=&Ad=&CU=#

Don't buy something like this unless you can see it first. A good
quality emerald sells for quite a bit more than this, so I would
expect it to either be a pretty poor stone, or something different
from what is advertised. Since it comes from a fly-by-night type
of organization with no street front or store, once you pay the
money, it is unlikely you will ever see any money back if you try
to return it.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

David G wrote:
I'm thinking of buy this ring from this online jeweler (with ruby) for $699.
I've checked some reviews on the folks, seem on the level--of course
a couple of disgruntled customers (mainly stones falling out) but I
guess that's expected. Most customers seem pleased.

What do you think of the ring and price?

http://www.jewelsforme.com/item-main... nth=&Ad=&CU=#

I wanted to send you a personal reply, but your email address is a fake.
Since I find this very rude, I don't really want to give you my
professional opinion. So I'll give you the redacted version.

......... this ring. The one in the photo is ........... Of course,
.................., but ............, and ............!

Good luck.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

What do you think of the ring and price?



Way over-priced faux garbage, but what would you expect from a
pammer? -Dave

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:21:37 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote:


I wanted to send you a personal reply, but your email address is a fake.
Since I find this very rude, I don't really want to give you my
professional opinion. So I'll give you the redacted version.

Chuckle. As usual, Abrasha, concise and to the point. Entertaining too, this
time.

I'll comment that not all readers find the lack of a valid return address
offensive, but some, like Abrasha, indeed do so. And it makes it impossible for
someone to send a reply that they may not wish to post in a fully public forum.
So including some means of personal reply is in the interest of a poster. The
traditional way to both do this, and maintain some security from having your
email address picked up by spammers, is to munge up your email address in the
message headers, but provide, usually in some means readable by a human but not
to a bot program, of deciphering the right address. Thus you see posts where an
email address may include added blocks like "remove this" in the address, or the
text of the message will include text describing how to edit the address to a
correct form.

Other, perhaps simple methods work, such as signing up for a yahoo or other
temporary email address and using this as a reply to address. Some ISPs offer
throw away email addresses too. My own, Earthlink, for example, makes it simple
to get several throw away anonymous email address added to my account. When one
starts to attract spam, discard it and set up another.

As to the ring, people seem to doubt the value of this bargain.

First, a note on your observed complains. You say some folks complain about
stones falling out? Sheesh, guy, that's about the same as some customers
complaining that a certain auto dealer sells cars from which wheels fall off.
It's NOT normal. Stones, if properly set, should not fall out or loosen until
the ring has been worn a lot, enough so much metal has been worn off the prongs
or stone settings. If stones are falling out of new rings, that suggests very
poor manufacturing.

Second, the link you show is an emerald ring, not a ruby. Clicking the rubies
on the page may change the picture, but doesn't change the text, price, or
description. In short, this is a poorly written page indeed. That seems
somehow consistent with the quality I suspect exists in the jewelry. Junk.

Third. 7 hundred dollars for a 14K ring with a decently large genuine ruby? Who
are they kidding? Same for the emerald. Both these stones, if they are of any
quality at all, should have at least one more decimal place in the price of the
gem alone, not just the whole ring. If these are "real" gems, they've got to be
garbage. While the public often hears about high markups on jewelry or other
merchandise (you think jewelry is high, look at clothing, furnature, or many
other consumer items...), the truth is there's no magic way for these guys, or
any other manufacturer, to buy good quality gems at a totally insanely lower
price than anyone else. The market in rare gems like ruby or emerald is a
sellers market. Fine gems always command decent prices, and these are too low.
The only way these could be sold for the price listed is if they are not what
the site implies, ie reasonaly good quality. Certainly, if they look as good
as the photos, there's something fishy going on. Either some form of major
enhancing treatment, beyond what's normal, or these are synthetics of some sort.
Now the price might be right if this was listed as a good quality Gilson or
Chatham synthetic, but not a good quality natural ruby. Not unless some fool
has gone out of their head and is giving the things away for less than the
wholesale market, which is unlikely indeed.

Then finely, get out any decent piece of jewelry you own in the size class and
metal of this ring. put it on a gram scale. Compare the weight of your ring
with what they say this thing weighs. The site said something like 3 3/4 grams.
Guy, that's next to nothing for a design like this. Perhaps OK for a small
delicate ladies ring, but the only way this ring can weigh that little is if
it's hollowed out inside to a very large degree. A lot of really cheap jewelry
is made that way, but it's just that, cheap junk. You really aren't getting a
good buy when you get metal that's little more than foil thin. It won't hold up
at all. Gold, when pure, is currently selling for over 800 dollars an ounce,
and scrap jewelry can be sold back to refiners for only a few percent less than
this any instant a dealer wishes to scrap in their old metal at these high price
levels. 800 an ounce translates to a raw materials cost of about 16 dollars per
gram for just the 14K gold raw material, and it takes a little more than the
final weight to make the ring. So the manufacturer has at least 65 dollars
invested in just the raw metal, plus other manufacturing costs. By the time
you're done with that, the ring mounting alone should be costing maybe a hundred
fifty or more, leaving even less of the purchase price for the gemstone, and
that's assuming a foil thin crappy peice of cheap junk jewelry. Take away the
stone, and the price might be reasonable for a well made, commercially made
(custom work costs more) gold ring with no stones, or nothing especially
costly. It could be about right for an also well made commercial ring looking
like this IF it's sold as being set with a decent synthetic gem (which might
indeed be an attractive ring, just not valuable for a rare natural gemstone.).

Anyway, as usual, I'm rambling. Sorry 'bout that.

But just remember. You get what you pay for. This is a really cheap price. The
most you could buy for a cheap price is a really cheap ring. And chances are,
there can be more fishy stuff to a site like this, unconnected as it is with any
recognizable decent manufacturer or seller with any decent history, than you
expect. Getting exactly the cheap ring this seems to be is likely the best you
can get. it could be worse by far. The site does have a New York contact
address listed for returns, but that's about it. I'd worry about that quite a
bit if it were my 700 bucks on the like...

Peter Rowe
moderator
rec.crafts.jewelry

"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:21:37 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote:


I wanted to send you a personal reply, but your email address is a fake.
Since I find this very rude, I don't really want to give you my
professional opinion. So I'll give you the redacted version.

Chuckle. As usual, Abrasha, concise and to the point. Entertaining too,
this
time.

Yeah, funny guy. I seriously doubt I'm missing much.

Sorry, didn't realize no address was so important.
Here's one for me:

Second, the link you show is an emerald ring, not a ruby.

Yeah it does. I copied and pasted the URL *FOR* the ruby
picture, but it does give the emerald when you click it.....

Clicking the rubies
on the page may change the picture, but doesn't change the text, price, or
description. In short, this is a poorly written page indeed. That seems
somehow consistent with the quality I suspect exists in the jewelry.
Junk.

I didn't really see any problem with the web page; no reason to change the
text or price, since the price is the same for both stones, but...maybe it
is a bad buy as you suggest. I just don't know. There's a lot of
nebulosity around jewelry for most of us people not in the know, which
is the vast majority of people in society I'd suspect.

Third. 7 hundred dollars for a 14K ring with a decently large genuine
ruby? Who
are they kidding? Same for the emerald. Both these stones, if they are
of any
quality at all, should have at least one more decimal place in the price
of the
gem alone, not just the whole ring. If these are "real" gems, they've got
to be
garbage. While the public often hears about high markups on jewelry or
other
merchandise (you think jewelry is high, look at clothing, furnature, or
many
other consumer items...), the truth is there's no magic way for these
guys, or
any other manufacturer, to buy good quality gems at a totally insanely
lower
price than anyone else. The market in rare gems like ruby or emerald is a
sellers market. Fine gems always command decent prices, and these are too
low.
The only way these could be sold for the price listed is if they are not
what
the site implies, ie reasonaly good quality. Certainly, if they look as
good
as the photos, there's something fishy going on. Either some form of
major
enhancing treatment, beyond what's normal, or these are synthetics of some
sort.
Now the price might be right if this was listed as a good quality Gilson
or
Chatham synthetic, but not a good quality natural ruby. Not unless some
fool
has gone out of their head and is giving the things away for less than the
wholesale market, which is unlikely indeed.

Then finely, get out any decent piece of jewelry you own in the size class
and
metal of this ring. put it on a gram scale. Compare the weight of your
ring
with what they say this thing weighs. The site said something like 3 3/4
grams.
Guy, that's next to nothing for a design like this. Perhaps OK for a
small
delicate ladies ring, but the only way this ring can weigh that little is
if
it's hollowed out inside to a very large degree.

Could be. They say "3.73 grams of 14k solid gold." I guess this could
be a deceptive bit of wording, meaning of course that the gold *that is
there* is 14k solid gold, but not that the *ring* itself is solid. I'm glad
you pointed this out.

A lot of really cheap jewelry
is made that way, but it's just that, cheap junk. You really aren't
getting a
good buy when you get metal that's little more than foil thin. It won't
hold up
at all. Gold, when pure, is currently selling for over 800 dollars an
ounce,
and scrap jewelry can be sold back to refiners for only a few percent less
than
this any instant a dealer wishes to scrap in their old metal at these high
price
levels. 800 an ounce translates to a raw materials cost of about 16
dollars per
gram for just the 14K gold raw material, and it takes a little more than
the
final weight to make the ring. So the manufacturer has at least 65
dollars
invested in just the raw metal, plus other manufacturing costs. By the
time
you're done with that, the ring mounting alone should be costing maybe a
hundred
fifty or more, leaving even less of the purchase price for the gemstone,
and
that's assuming a foil thin crappy peice of cheap junk jewelry. Take
away the
stone, and the price might be reasonable for a well made, commercially
made
(custom work costs more) gold ring with no stones, or nothing especially
costly. It could be about right for an also well made commercial ring
looking
like this IF it's sold as being set with a decent synthetic gem (which
might
indeed be an attractive ring, just not valuable for a rare natural
gemstone.).

Anyway, as usual, I'm rambling. Sorry 'bout that.

No, interesting reading.

But just remember. You get what you pay for. This is a really cheap
price. The
most you could buy for a cheap price is a really cheap ring. And chances
are,
there can be more fishy stuff to a site like this, unconnected as it is
with any
recognizable decent manufacturer or seller with any decent history, than
you
expect. Getting exactly the cheap ring this seems to be is likely the
best you
can get. it could be worse by far. The site does have a New York
contact
address listed for returns, but that's about it. I'd worry about that
quite a
bit if it were my 700 bucks on the like...

I think they give 30 days or something similar for returns, and according
to some reviewers, they honor this pretty well. One would think this
might lend them some respectability, as I would think some customers
would go get their stuff appraised after receiving it, but then again,
most probably don't. My dad gave me his ruby ring many years
ago. One day while in college, I took it off to wash my hands in
the restroom, and absent-mindedly left it on the sink. Some
member of the general public, being the honorable lot they often
are, was nice enough to lift it before I realized what I'd done.
Likely the very first guy in there stole it. I left notices in the
RR, but nothing ever turned up.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 00:40:36 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry "David G"
wrote:



Yeah, funny guy. I seriously doubt I'm missing much.

Sorry, didn't realize no address was so important.
Here's one for me:


Much? not in volume, no. Abrasha has often rightly accused me of taking two
pages to say what he says in two sentances. But a missed opinion? Yes. Even
if Abrasha sometimes has a sometimes earned reputation for not being so nice and
polite in his opinions, you'll find that even if some people find his opinions
on jewelry to be... um... "blunt", they are in my experience, always dead on
correct. He is one of the most highly skilled and exacting goldsmiths I've ever
met or you're ever likely to meet, and his patience with junk jewelery or sloppy
jewelers is understandably somewhat limited, to say the least. But he's also an
extremely well trained and experienced jeweler and goldsmith, and you're not
likely to get an opinion from him that's incorrect technically or aesthetically.
You might not LIKE what he has to say or how he may choose sometimes to word it,
but you should listen, if you're looking for a true expert opinion on a jewelry
subject.


Could be. They say "3.73 grams of 14k solid gold." I guess this could
be a deceptive bit of wording, meaning of course that the gold *that is
there* is 14k solid gold, but not that the *ring* itself is solid. I'm glad
you pointed this out.

note that I don't mean hollow like an inner tube. It just means the inside
surface of the ring is scooped out to match the outer profile, so the whole ring
is essentially like thin sheet metal. It's not thicker where the design gets
thicker on the outside. The result just feels, and is, flimsy. The gold will
be a 14K gold alloy, which means 58% gold, the remainder of the alloy base
metals. Just as it should be. My note wasn't that wording is deceptive, just
that this is awfully light weight for a decent ring of this design, meaning it's
thinner metal than it should be. Perhaps this explains why some customers have
had stones fall out.



No, interesting reading.

thanks.


I think they give 30 days or something similar for returns, and according
to some reviewers, they honor this pretty well. One would think this
might lend them some respectability, as I would think some customers
would go get their stuff appraised after receiving it, but then again,
most probably don't.

Most probably don't, since most reputable appraisers would likely charge around
a hundred bucks for a proper appraisal. Those who charge less are not likely
giving a truely accurate market appraisal, but rather, stating a percieved
maximum market price (sometimes used as an insurance appraisal price, but not
really reflecting a true value). Often such appraisals are written specifically
to make a sellers lower price seem flatteringly good, when in fact the lower
price is closer to market average.

So yes, most people don't bother to get a 700 dollar ring properly appraised.
Not all unhappy customers bother to return a ring they don't like either. The
net is full of buyers who buy there because they're too busy or lazy to make the
rounds of brick and morter stores, and that convenience disappears when you've
got to go to the trouble to mail something back.

And if the customer testimonials you refer to are on the company's web site, do
keep in mind that what's there is what the company allows to be there. The
worst of the fraudulent internet sellers sites often have lots of glowing
testimonials from happy customers to make themselves look good. Those, of
course, are all written by the folks who put up the site. Now, I'm not implying
this site is fraudulent at all. I have no idea if it is, and no reason to think
it is. Just remember that because you read it on the net doesn't mean it's real
or valid. You don't know the real source of the information. The only thing I
see is a site claiming that this is a good quality natural ruby of a given size
for 700 bucks. Now, I'm pretty sure I can't go legitimately buy a new 700
series BMW automobile for a thousand dollars cash from the dealer. If I saw one
offered, I could be pretty sure it was stolen, wreck salvaged, or otherwise a
fraudulent sale, because you simply can't buy a car worth 50 thousand for one
thousand, right? The price differential in this case, between the selling
price, and the market price for what an experience jeweler or gemologist (like
me, for example) would consider even decent quality in a natural ruby may not be
on that same level. But the concept is the same, and what a good ruby of that
size SHOULD sell for is a lot more than 700 bucks. Good ruby is one of the
truly rare gems. Much more so than diamond. People who have good ruby for
sale might, in a depressed economy, have to drop their price some if they have
to move inventory. But this is WAY too cheap. So something is wrong. Either
the quality doesn't measure up to what the site implies, or it's not quite the
right gem. My guess would still be either a good synthetic (which would be a
blatantly fraudulent advertisement) or most likely, natural ruby that's simply a
lot more flawed and included than the site implies. Mind you, these can still
be very pretty. And it IS possible to get natural ruby of lower qualities, in
this price range. But I think it won't look like the pictures in that web
page. If it's nice and clean and clear (good clarity), it simply won't be a
nice bright saturated red color. If it's a good red color, then it will have a
lot of prominant and obviously visible inclusions (cracks,flaws, etc)

My dad gave me his ruby ring many years
ago. One day while in college, I took it off to wash my hands in
the restroom, and absent-mindedly left it on the sink. Some
member of the general public, being the honorable lot they often
are, was nice enough to lift it before I realized what I'd done.
Likely the very first guy in there stole it. I left notices in the
RR, but nothing ever turned up.

yeah, I did the same thing in college when I sat down at the piano in the lounge
area to play for a bit. Left the ring I'd made myself just a few weeks earlier
on the music stand for a moment and it disappeared. Bummer even when it's one
you can replace.

Peter

Yeah, funny guy. I seriously doubt I'm missing much.

Sorry, didn't realize no address was so important.
Here's one for me:


Much? not in volume, no. Abrasha has often rightly accused me of taking
two
pages to say what he says in two sentances.

Or as they say around here - "why use one word when a thousand will do!"

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 01:16:48 -0800, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote:

So yes, most people don't bother to get a 700 dollar ring properly appraised.
Not all unhappy customers bother to return a ring they don't like either. The
net is full of buyers who buy there because they're too busy or lazy

disabled!

to make the
rounds of brick and morter stores, and that convenience disappears when you've
got to go to the trouble to mail something back.
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com

"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in
:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 01:16:48 -0800, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote:

So yes, most people don't bother to get a 700 dollar ring properly
appraised. Not all unhappy customers bother to return a ring they
don't like either. The net is full of buyers who buy there because
they're too busy or lazy

disabled!

to make the
rounds of brick and morter stores, and that convenience disappears
when you've got to go to the trouble to mail something back.

Or located over 30 miles from a grocery store, 60 from a emquality/em
jewelry store.,