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The Beadmakers Liberation Front



 
 
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  #71  
Old February 12th 04, 01:53 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Also, I wanted to say in response to this - there are so many threads
started everywhere complaining about ebay or asking why ebay is slow, etc.
etc. ad nauseum. People need to try and at least search for other threads
like that before posting their own. There are communities on ebay for just
that kind of help. People need to read and do homework before posting.
There are those of us who have answered those threads time after time after
time who are really getting weary of it.
Questions are fine. If you're new at this, ask away - but please do some
homework first!! You say people don't know how to start. If they have
found their way to a newsgroup or forum to post their questions, they can
most certainly search the web for answers first. The web has tons and tons
and tons of information on how to lampwork, how to sell on ebay and how to
run a business. All I ask is for a little effort on their part before
expecting people to take the time and effort to type out a long explanation
about how to do whatever. That's all I ask.
Research first. Then, if you still have intelligent, well thought out
questions, post them! The majority of people here are really good at that.
On wet canvas, it's somewhat of a different story. Even with all the
helpful threads right there at their fingertips, there are still people who
post "why is ebay slow?" and "what's wrong with my auctions?". Do a
search - you'll see.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and
listen
to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this

is
an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much
effort.


I understand that. But also, some people don't know how to start, or how

to
find out the information. Sometimes it's "laziness" (i.e. let eBay sell

the
item for me. If I put it on there, it should automatically sell with
5million bids). I think part of this is not just "let's set prices" but

the
education, also. It's not just support of "aww, poor baby, you aren't
getting your prices, but you need to raise them". But support should also
be sharing of hints and help. But not specifically "Here's the formula

for
selling your items and making a million like I do". I agree with most
people when someone comes on here, and says "how do I sell, and where?".
There should be some research, and also, each area is different. But
guiding, and hinting is good. And there *are* "here's the formula" sites
out there! :-)



Ads
  #72  
Old February 12th 04, 01:54 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Yes, yes, yes!!!! Exactly!! Thank you Tink for putting it so well.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers
buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not
to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit.

I've found that a lot of the people who buy my beads are collecting
them in the same manner one might collect... um.... teddy bears
(eeeeeek) or something. I think it's cool, and I really relate to
that, because I don't make or wear jewelry and enjoy lampwork beads
more from the perspective of their being art glass.

I think Rita's idea is a good one, but I agree that the whole concept
smacks of price fixing. I've been trying not to say anything about
this, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. LOL!

My personal opinion is, make what you want... charge what you want...
the cream will rise to the top. There are a lot of lampworkers out
there getting prices they are happy with. There are certainly plenty
of custormers out there ready and willing to pay what they need to to
get what they want. Therefore.... I guess the key is to examine your
work, improve your work, move forward, create what makes you happy and
hope that it strikes a chord in the hearts of designers and
collectors.

Tink

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:15:54 -0800, "Kandice Seeber"
wrote:

A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying

a
higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as

well.



  #73  
Old February 12th 04, 01:58 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Again, soooooo well said. Thank you!! Damn, we're good here.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I also think that they need to consider that their
liberation front may not change the market to what they want to change it
to, because that just isn't the way it works on ebay.


Well, its pretty much not the way it works anywhere...except for maybe the
dollar stores.
Where you certainly get what you pay for. ;o)

While the group *is* trying
to get people to not post 99 cent auctions


And this was another point that I didn't quite understand. Who cares what

the
starting bid is? Its an auction. That is (or was) the whole point of the
place.
Live auctions work under the same premise. The auctioneer will attempt to
start the bidding at the least possible amount they feel is fair for the

item,
if that doesn't work, they keep lowering the opening bid. This tactic is

not
there to devalue the item. It is there to incite bids.
The more bids, the more percieved interest, the more interest, the more

bids.
We remain a simple minded species. ;o)
Plus there are usually shills in the crowd to avoid a loss.
If you are not confident in the fact that your item will sell for what you
perceive its value to be on an auction site, then maybe you shouldn't be

using
that medium as a sales tool.
I truely do understand that it is all good intent behind their concept.

But
there remains a few flaws that will keep it from becoming the idea they

are
after.

Here's what I posted there earlier today.


Oh, very well said Kandice. And I fear the lack of replies are again

because
we tend to be a simple species. It is always easier to go with the crowd
instead of against them. Most all of us desire approval and praise as

opposed
to confrontation or silence.
I, for one, agree with your comments and commend you for speaking your

opinion.

I also wish everyone good sales and validation in their worth.

Beki
http://www.whimbeads.com



  #74  
Old February 12th 04, 02:00 AM
Kandice Seeber
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They are not overpriced, and yes, this person sells a lot of work. Her
beads are very very detailed and well done, and they sell in jewelry and
seperately.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


But the big question are they selling any of their work? If they are then
they are not over priced if not then they are. My bet is they are over
priced.
Roxan


Here's jewelry offerred by a beadmaker.
http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html
Considering the prices for these items, I guess I should be charging

$250
for wholesale.

I'm not picking on anyone. I'm just trying to get a feel for this.

Tina



  #75  
Old February 12th 04, 02:02 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Yep! And that is the beginning of being an art bead collector! Welcome to
the addiction. And if you're well into the addiction, welcome to the
affirmation of your addiction! There's nothing better than a gorgeous bead
collection.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


"This is where you have to educate your costumer about how they are made

and
that they are a work of art. Just show them the difference between a cheap
Indian bead and good lampwork bead and they will learn to appreciate the
art.
Roxan"

This is correct. I am learning about beads and now know the difference
between cheap and quality. I am starting to collect the lampwork as I can
afford it. And like some of the others, I don't want to resell them. I
keep them and look at them (touch them) and some I'm making into stuff for
me. They are too beautiful to part with.


--
Debbie (New Mexico)
Life is too short


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 2/6/2004




  #76  
Old February 12th 04, 02:08 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Totally, totally, totally!!! Five years ago, handmade artisan lampwork was
selling like hotcakes, no matter what the quality was. That's because it was
a novelty, and there wasn't much compatition. I am not saying there weren't
quality beads out there - there were some fantastically gorgeous, high
quality pieces out there. Just not nearly as many as there are now. So
people didn't worry so much about how sharp their holes were, how balanced
the bead was, etc. People were able to sell their beads for really high
prices because lampwork wasn't mainstream. It's beginning to go mainstream
now - soooo many people are learning how. The bar has been raised, the
competition is really tough. You have to get better to be successful.
This point can't be made strongly enough. People need to ***pay
attention*** to what's out there. **Supply and Demand**
It's a concept every high schooler is taught, but people tend to forget this
later on in life.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

You and I have talked about this before, Kandice -- but I wanted to lend
support. I so agree with what you have said.

I think there are people who suffer a lot, emotionally, over why their

auctions
aren't getting more bids (or any bids, in some cases). They cry about it

in
pubic forums everywhere. I've looked at their beads, I've even bought

their
beads (this is not any one person, mind you). I won't be back to buy more
beads from them. Why?

Because I was unhappy with the beads, and they have a lot of competition.

So I
don't have to go back and waste my time buying their flawed product -- I

can
just cross them off my list of sellers. Their holes were rough, or their

beads
weren't balanced, or the colors weren't lovely. Whatever it was, their

product
was not up to the market's professional standards, and I feel like I

wasted my
money. Some of those beads actually ended up in my trash basket....but I
remember them well.

I don't have the $$ to burn that I'd need to purchase from these folks.
They've shown they have little respect for me -- why would they sell me
substandard beads otherwise? Bad experiences = no money in that

beadmaker's
pocket. And I do tell my friends, so it ripples out.

If you, whoever the "you" might be, aren't getting the sales you want

(unless
you're brand new at selling, of course), please, please examine your work.

I
don't care how long you've been doing it. You may have developed bad

habits.
You probably grew your craft when there was little competition if you've

been
doing it a long time. If you're new, or an old salt, you need to polish
yourself to survive.

Times have changed. You need to become excellent if you want that pie in

the
sky you moan about.

Here's what I posted there earlier today. I got several private messages
that were positive, but most people in the thread have not responded to

what
I said.

""holding breath, jumping in

Okay. I wasn't going to post anything in this thread, but after reading

it
all, I really want to now. I applaud the good intentions. I love Rita -
she's fabulous, as an artist and as a person.
However, I have a few issues with this Liberation Group, and I am going

to
post my opinions about it, while still trying to honor the fact that this
whole idea is about empowering and respecting art.

Issue #1, which was brought up by someone else (thank goodness, otherwise

I
would be too afraid to post my thoughts) - 99 cent auctions are not

always
about perceived value. I have said this before and I will say it again -

I
post 99 cent bead sets on ebay to reduce ebay fees, and because I have
confidence that my beads will get a good price. I have only been
disappointed once or twice. eBay is an auction house, *not* a retail

outlet.
It's a game to many cusotmers. People do need to ba a little more lenient
about price, but I *do* understand the need to ask for prices you can
accept. That means when you list something, you need to be ready for what
the market decides to do with it. So admonishing people for listing at 99
cents or 9.99 or 99.99 or what have you, is really not something that I

see
as good. A couple of artists have actually been named here in this

thread,
and some have been alluded to. That's not fair.

Issue #2, which is a broad and multi-faceted issue - Everyone in this art
field needs to take a good long look at if and why they are not selling
their pieces for what they would like to. There's a whole huge range of
skill in this group. Some beadmakers / glass artists cannot command

higher
prices due to a whole bunch of reasons that need to be addressed. You

can't
just increase your prices, stand back and watch the money pour in. You

need
to consider your buyers. You're not letting them in on this group

action -
they will have no idea why you're doing what you're doing.
To raise prices, you also need to raise the bar where quality is

concerned.
I am not just talking about the quality of the bead itself - I also mean

the
quality of service, and the quality of the auctions themselves. Someone
posted guidelines on their web site and was torn to pieces on this forum,
even though she is a buyer who spends a lot of money on lampwork.

Customers
need to be listened to. I know we all just want to make what we want and
have it sell, but the bottom line is that the market does not always work
exactly that way. There needs to be a blend of market research and

artistic
expression. If pink is really in this season, that's going to be what

sells
a lot. If you decide not to go with that flow, because you hate pink,

that's
totally fine, but you need to keep that in mind when pink stuff is

selling
for higher than your stuff. That's an over-simplified example, of course.
And you know, I see a LOT of people complaining about ebay. Yet, there

are
successes on ebay *all the time* in the very categories we sell in. We

all
need to look at that and figure out *why*. I am not saying to ask those
sellers for their secrets, or try and copy them. I am saying that we need

to
focus on bettering ourselves as artists. People have success because they
make it. They pay their dues, work like dogs, have talent, and *make

their
success*.
Stop complaining about ebay sucking. Start doing your homework and

figuring
out why ebay sucks for you. It's not always a "slow time of year" there.

Issue #3 - ebay is not black and white. It's a grey whale, baby. There's

no
"one way" to make it work. There's no one answer. There are hundreds,

maybe
thousands, of lampworkers listing there. You may think this group is

large,
here, but it's only a small fraction of the lampworkers listing on ebay.
Your group may not get the results you're looking for, so be prepared for
that.

Okay - I know I have been the person to post an opposing opinion on

several
of these types of issues on this forum. If y'all want me to go away, just
let me know. I can handle that. But the many new threads about ebay being
crap, and complaining about not getting the prices you want for your

beads
is getting really irksome to me. Maybe it's because I am not having the

same
problems you all are. And you know what? No one ever asks me why. Does

any
one care why?""

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net




~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry."

John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html



  #77  
Old February 12th 04, 02:08 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Yes, very true.But very very hard to control in this new, flooded market.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking

and
well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and

annoying.
I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and
hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or
trying to control things.


I don't agree with the organization, the "rules", etc. But I

wholeheartedly
support the feeling that undercutting is noxious and harmful to beaders

and
beadmakers everywhere.
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry."

John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html



  #78  
Old February 12th 04, 02:09 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Heh heh heh

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Time to stop now before someone whacks
me with a tomato!!


Mmmmmmmmmm....tomatoes....
~~
Sooz
-------
"Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry."

John
Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance
~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html



  #79  
Old February 12th 04, 02:10 AM
Kandice Seeber
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Yep! She's actually one of my faves right now. But that changes
monthly, so.....

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


Actually, she sells a LOT.



I'm sure she does.. I was a bit TIC there.. ;-))

She does lovely work and I'm sure she has chosen her sales arena where she
would get those prices. I think this is what many on the BLF should be
looking at... not .99c auctions on Ebay and why they are so *bad*...sic

Mavis



  #80  
Old February 12th 04, 02:10 AM
AmazeR
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:53:51 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:

Also, I wanted to say in response to this - there are so many threads
started everywhere complaining about ebay or asking why ebay is slow, etc.
etc. ad nauseum. People need to try and at least search for other threads


snip

I'm probably as guilty of this as anyone.. but then I have a DH who is
training me to SEARCH, SEARCH, SEARCH BEFORE asking a dumb or even
not-so-dumb question... Someone on the net has answered it before!!
ALMOST certainly....

I think the 'human condition' tends towards laziness... let someone else
do all the hard work! NOT!!!


Mavis

 




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