TIME TO TAKE MATTERS INTO MY OWN HANDS

Well guys, I bought a beautiful brass pendant, about 2 inches across
from overseas. Beautiful. Just one problem: it hangs upside down. I
figured it would be easy enough for a jeweler to fix it. I figured
they'd just saw the loop off one end and put it on another.

Well I took it in, and there was of course a big story about why he
couldn't do it, which I don't want to go into. I just want to be able
to wear it.

SO.. Here's what I'm thinking: is there some kind of a strong,
waterproof, "jewelry glue" that I can just take a heavy wire and glue
it to the back, just enough to make a loop and get a chain through so I
can wear it?

Any ideas appreciated. I didn't like dealing with the jeweler. He
seemed to be throwing a lot of numbers at me to dissuade me, but when I
told him to go ahead, he came up with more excuses.

This shouldn't be such a big deal should it?? Should I try to do it
myself or go see another jeweler?

Got pix? It sounds like a bit of soldering if all it has on it is a wire
loop on the back. You could probably use a general 2-part epoxy glue to
achieve what you are talking about (particularly since this doesn't sound
like a very expensive piece.) A picture might help elicit other
suggestions.

Lori


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On or about Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:12:01 GMT, an entity identified as
proudly proclaimed:

Well guys, I bought a beautiful brass pendant, about 2 inches across
from overseas. Beautiful. Just one problem: it hangs upside down. I
figured it would be easy enough for a jeweler to fix it. I figured
they'd just saw the loop off one end and put it on another.

Well I took it in, and there was of course a big story about why he
couldn't do it, which I don't want to go into. I just want to be able
to wear it.

SO.. Here's what I'm thinking: is there some kind of a strong,
waterproof, "jewelry glue" that I can just take a heavy wire and glue
it to the back, just enough to make a loop and get a chain through so I
can wear it?

Any ideas appreciated. I didn't like dealing with the jeweler. He
seemed to be throwing a lot of numbers at me to dissuade me, but when I
told him to go ahead, he came up with more excuses.

This shouldn't be such a big deal should it?? Should I try to do it
myself or go see another jeweler?

Yeah, go find another one.
I work in brass or whatever.

wrote:
Well guys, I bought a beautiful brass pendant, about 2 inches across
from overseas. Beautiful. Just one problem: it hangs upside down. I
figured it would be easy enough for a jeweler to fix it. I figured
they'd just saw the loop off one end and put it on another.

Well I took it in, and there was of course a big story about why he
couldn't do it, which I don't want to go into. I just want to be able
to wear it.

SO.. Here's what I'm thinking: is there some kind of a strong,
waterproof, "jewelry glue" that I can just take a heavy wire and glue
it to the back, just enough to make a loop and get a chain through so I
can wear it?

Any ideas appreciated. I didn't like dealing with the jeweler. He
seemed to be throwing a lot of numbers at me to dissuade me, but when I
told him to go ahead, he came up with more excuses.

This shouldn't be such a big deal should it?? Should I try to do it
myself or go see another jeweler?


If he was thinking of soldering the new loop on, yeah, I see a couple
potentially insurmountable problems.

If the metal is lower-melting than expected, part of the pendant melts.
S___loads of work to fix, if it's even possible.

If there's a patina on the brass, it will likely be lost in the heated
area. He has no idea how the patina was achieved and might have to spend
days trying to re-create it.


What I'd do if you came to me:

If there's sufficient thickness where you want the new loop,
drill two holes in the back, above and below where the chain wants to go
form a rounded 'staple' of brass wire that just fits the holes
clean the staple with acetone
rough up the inside of the holes with a needle tool of some sort
rough up the tips of the staple with a pair of wire cutters or a razor
blade (Gently)
mix up some epoxy
get some down into the holes (use the needle tool, you can clean it
later) and pile a drop of it on top of the holes
squeeze the staple into place
Set it down, step away from the bench, and no one gets hurt.

I might try the same thing using TIX, a very low temperature solder
intended for costume jewelry, that would be stronger, but I'd have to
see the piece.

- Carl

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:11:30 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry
wrote:

Well guys, I bought a beautiful brass pendant, about 2 inches across
from overseas. Beautiful. Just one problem: it hangs upside down. I
figured it would be easy enough for a jeweler to fix it. I figured
they'd just saw the loop off one end and put it on another.

Well I took it in, and there was of course a big story about why he
couldn't do it, which I don't want to go into. I just want to be able
to wear it.

SO.. Here's what I'm thinking: is there some kind of a strong,
waterproof, "jewelry glue" that I can just take a heavy wire and glue
it to the back, just enough to make a loop and get a chain through so I
can wear it?

Any ideas appreciated. I didn't like dealing with the jeweler. He
seemed to be throwing a lot of numbers at me to dissuade me, but when I
told him to go ahead, he came up with more excuses.

This shouldn't be such a big deal should it?? Should I try to do it
myself or go see another jeweler?


Many commercial jewelers (jewelry stores, etc) are set up for gold and silver
work only. Some only handle gold or platinum, and not even silver (which
sometimes requires considerably more heat to solder than does gold or even
platinum). So asking him/her to work with brass is essentially asking him/her
to work with a material he doesn't usually repair, and may not feel comfortable
working with. Sounds silly, but that's the deal. Also, he may feel that the
lower value of the metal would make it difficult for him to charge as much for
his time as he'd be able to do working in a precious metal.

Who knows the total reason's he doesn't want to work on it. Accept that. If
the guy isn't comfortable working on your piece, even if it seems like it should
be simple to do, then let it be. No sense taking a change the guy might mess
it up, a possibility if he's not used to working with lower melting alloys like
brass.

As to what you can do:

So-called soft solders can work well with brass. Use one of the types that's a
grade up from the tin/lead stuff used in electronics. You can get tin/silver
solders, like "stay brite", or better still, TIX, that will give you a decent
bond, IF there are sufficient mating surfaces. Your "loop" can be made of brass
wire, but give the side that will join to the pendant a squiggle or an extra
turn parallel to the mating surface, so there's something for the solder to grab
other than just one length of almost straight wire. then, unless the piece is
very heavy, you can use a soldering iron to join the two. Hardware stores often
carry better grades of the solder, so you don't really need to find a jewelry
supply store. Just look for "silver bearing" in the label. Even the tin/lead
electronics solders will work, but they don't look as good.

The downside to any heating is that it can damage the surface patina. You may
need to brighten up the brass again after soldering. If it's got a lacquered
finish, this too may need some reworking. If just a normal polish, or a satin,
then any brass polish, or even 4/0 steel woll (for a fine satin look) will work.

If you don't want to use solder, then still using the idea of a loop where
there's more to grab than just a straight loop (think: figure 8 shape, with one
look bent down and at right angles so one loop sticks out as your bail, the
other sits flat against the surface), then also any good two part epoxy will
likely hold just fine, IF you clean the surfaces well prior to gluing. Light
sanding with any light abrasive will work. Avoid the 5 minute or other quick
setting types of epoxy. They're not as strong as the slower setting types.
Devcon 2 ton is a decent one, or there are others. Epoxy is not as attracitve
a joint, of course, as a properly made and soldered on bail, but then "soft
solder" as described above, also isn't as good as a proper job. Properly, one
would made a nice bail, then silver solder it on, and after cleaning it up and
all, the piece would be completely permanent, and look like it had been made
that way from the beginning. If you are not in such a rush, I'm sure there are
others, besides your local jeweler, who'd be happy to do this for you. That may
include a number of readers of this newsgroup who'd be happy to help you via the
U.S. mail. Doing it correctly may take you a little longer, but you'll like the
result better too.

cheers

Peter Rowe

FlameNwind wrote:
Got pix? It sounds like a bit of soldering if all it has on it is a wire
loop on the back. You could probably use a general 2-part epoxy glue to
achieve what you are talking about (particularly since this doesn't sound
like a very expensive piece.) A picture might help elicit other
suggestions.


Hi there, well the jeweler said using solder or even a laser would heat
the pendant up and possibly distort the laser

The Epoxy sounds intriguing thought. It wouldn't interat with my skin
would it?

Now, if that works then I just gotta figure out how to saw the little
loop off the bottom.

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:05:07 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "The Space Boss"
wrote:


FlameNwind wrote:
Got pix? It sounds like a bit of soldering if all it has on it is a wire
loop on the back. You could probably use a general 2-part epoxy glue to
achieve what you are talking about (particularly since this doesn't sound
like a very expensive piece.) A picture might help elicit other
suggestions.


Hi there, well the jeweler said using solder or even a laser would heat
the pendant up and possibly distort the laser

The Epoxy sounds intriguing thought. It wouldn't interat with my skin
would it?

Now, if that works then I just gotta figure out how to saw the little
loop off the bottom.


Solder WILL heat up the pendant. So what? Brass can take heating. It will
likely need some finishing, like polishing, etc, again, after traditional hard
soldering, but this should be routine for any jeweler. Unless there is
something unusual about the finish, such as applied resins or paints, or
enamels, or glued on stones, or something like that, just the fact that it would
be heated is of little consequence. It no doubt was heated already, in it's
past, while being manufactured.

One of a laser welder's big advantages is that it does NOT heat the piece up
much. A little, perhaps, but while welding, you hold the piece just in your
fingers. If it gets too warm to be comfortable, you slow down, or cool it with
compressed air. Laser welders would make this type of repair pretty much
childs play. If the jeweler has one, and still does not wish to do your repair
for you, then either he doesn't understand his laser and how to use it, or he's
simply unwilling to do lower priced repairs. Either way, I'd have some words I
might use to describe such a jeweler, but the group FAQ prohibits personal
attacks, so I won't use them (grin).

Now, the word "idiot" comes especially to mind, even despite my reticence in the
last paragraph, when you say he says welding brass would heat up his laser.
Sheesh. The machine only knows what power settings you're running at. It does
not know, nor interact with, the identity of the metal you're welding. Sure the
thing heats up. Any high powered machine does so to an extent whenever you turn
it on. Laser welders are designed to deal with it quite well. Using high power
settings for a long time can lower the service life of certain parts (the flash
lamps, in particular) but brass, as it turns out, does not require power
settings any higher than welding on karat gold alloys. It's pretty easy. In
fact, if you'd like your pendant laser welded, email me off-group, with a valid
email return address, (I've not checked the one you post from. If it's fine
already, good. Otherwise, use a valid one for an email reply). I'll put you
in touch with a jeweler with a laser welder and very reasonable prices. Would
likely cost postage both ways, plus a small fee. might end up less than you're
bothering with buying epoxy or soft solder and risk mucking it you trying it
yourself.

Epoxy, once it's set, does not normally interact with skin for most people. The
uncured resin is indeed a problem. But once cured, most people have no trouble
with it. Skin contact, though, is why I mentioned to avoid the five minute
types. They are not, over time, waterproof, and perspiration degrades them much
more quickly than it does the slower setting types. With that said, though,
there are a few people who WILL react to epoxy resins, even when fully cured. If
you have a problem with skin sensitivities, avoid epoxy unless you're sure it's
OK for you. The same should be said of any "soft" solders that contain any
lead. Tin is fine. Lead is not. That's one reason to avoid the electronics
type solders. You can get tin/silver solders (they contain a few other things
too...) that are lead free, and these usually are OK with skin contact.

Sawing off the ring is normally done with a jewelers saw. This is like a
woodworkers coping saw, except the blades are much thinner with finer teeth (and
the saw frame itself is different, clamping the blade ends, instead of the
coping saw's use of cross pins in the blades.) Miniature hack saw style blades
can sometimes be found too, that would work. The main thing is that most
likely, a standard hack saw or wood saw would be so wide a cut that too much
metal would be removed if you're trying to reuse the loop for the top. If not,
and it's just being scrapped, then just clip it off with side or end cutters,
and use a small file to smooth the cut.

HTH

Peter

wrote:
Well guys, I bought a beautiful brass pendant, about 2 inches across
from overseas. Beautiful. Just one problem: it hangs upside down. I
figured it would be easy enough for a jeweler to fix it. I figured
they'd just saw the loop off one end and put it on another.

Well I took it in, and there was of course a big story about why he
couldn't do it, which I don't want to go into. I just want to be able
to wear it.

SO.. Here's what I'm thinking: is there some kind of a strong,
waterproof, "jewelry glue" that I can just take a heavy wire and glue
it to the back, just enough to make a loop and get a chain through so I
can wear it?

Any ideas appreciated. I didn't like dealing with the jeweler. He
seemed to be throwing a lot of numbers at me to dissuade me, but when I
told him to go ahead, he came up with more excuses.

This shouldn't be such a big deal should it?? Should I try to do it
myself or go see another jeweler?


As you have discovered, you took it to the wrong metal worker.
however this sort of job needs to be approached with caution.
you say you bought it from overseas. Ity might not be solid brass. It
might be brass plated die cast zinc. Weve had these here before in the past.
If so, theres no way it can be done properly without ruining the piece.
Also there aint no glue thats as strong and as reliable as the the
original metal, what ever it is.
We need to see a picture of it, and have some dimesions of the end you
want to fix another ring. ie width thickness length and depth.
It might just lend itself to drilling a hole and putting a suitable
sized ring through that , big enough to take the chain you propose to use.
Any bronze age smith would find that an easy job.
where did it come from? and if from on line? where can we go to see it?
or did you pick it up in your travels?
If you plan on a long loop glued to the back the wire needs to be half
round and a 2 part epoxy resin such as Araldite would be strong enough
"IF" the contact area was large enough. Still ultimately unreliable.
the other possibility is for you to cut out a shape in brass to match
the back and glue that on. Gluing metal is tricky, it needs to be
chemically clean ,well abraded, heat cured and clamped whilt setting.
I use elastic bands and clothes pegs for jobs like this.
youll also need an inbetween ring so it lay properly on your chest.

ted frater wrote:

wrote:

Well guys, I bought a beautiful brass pendant, about 2 inches across
from overseas. Beautiful. Just one problem: it hangs upside down. I
figured it would be easy enough for a jeweler to fix it. I figured
they'd just saw the loop off one end and put it on another.

Well I took it in, and there was of course a big story about why he
couldn't do it, which I don't want to go into. I just want to be able
to wear it.

SO.. Here's what I'm thinking: is there some kind of a strong,
waterproof, "jewelry glue" that I can just take a heavy wire and glue
it to the back, just enough to make a loop and get a chain through so I
can wear it?

Any ideas appreciated. I didn't like dealing with the jeweler. He
seemed to be throwing a lot of numbers at me to dissuade me, but when I
told him to go ahead, he came up with more excuses.

This shouldn't be such a big deal should it?? Should I try to do it
myself or go see another jeweler?



As you have discovered, you took it to the wrong metal worker.
however this sort of job needs to be approached with caution.
you say you bought it from overseas. Ity might not be solid brass. It
might be brass plated die cast zinc. Weve had these here before in the past.
If so, theres no way it can be done properly without ruining the piece.
Also there aint no glue thats as strong and as reliable as the the
original metal, what ever it is.
We need to see a picture of it, and have some dimesions of the end you
want to fix another ring. ie width thickness length and depth.
It might just lend itself to drilling a hole and putting a suitable
sized ring through that , big enough to take the chain you propose to use.
Any bronze age smith would find that an easy job.
where did it come from? and if from on line? where can we go to see it?
or did you pick it up in your travels?
If you plan on a long loop glued to the back the wire needs to be half
round and a 2 part epoxy resin such as Araldite would be strong enough
"IF" the contact area was large enough. Still ultimately unreliable.
the other possibility is for you to cut out a shape in brass to match
the back and glue that on. Gluing metal is tricky, it needs to be
chemically clean ,well abraded, heat cured and clamped whilt setting.
I use elastic bands and clothes pegs for jobs like this.
youll also need an inbetween ring so it lay properly on your chest.





If it is zinc or otherwise not 'workable' a bezel or wire-wrapped mount
could still be made for it.

Carl


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