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Asbestos



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 26th 07, 08:34 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
David L. Huffman
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Posts: 1
Default Asbestos


"Frosty" wrote in message
news
I want some.
In powdered form.
Anyone know where I can purchase some?


I'm certain that what you are talking about is not asbestos. It's a product
I used in the trade shops years ago called "Feldina". A fine gray flaky
powder, soft and easily compressed that was mixed with water to form a paste
to heat protect stones in jewelry while soldering. It's probably a feldspar
based product, but it is definitely not asbestos. Gesswein used to carry it
up till about a year ago but it is no longer being manufactured.


Ads
  #12  
Old August 28th 07, 09:18 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Frosty
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Posts: 155
Default Asbestos

In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:34:59 -0700 a
smoke signal from "David L. Huffman" rang out,
which was heard to say :


"Frosty" wrote in message
news
I want some.
In powdered form.
Anyone know where I can purchase some?


I'm certain that what you are talking about is not asbestos. It's a product
I used in the trade shops years ago called "Feldina". A fine gray flaky
powder, soft and easily compressed that was mixed with water to form a paste
to heat protect stones in jewelry while soldering. It's probably a feldspar
based product, but it is definitely not asbestos. Gesswein used to carry it
up till about a year ago but it is no longer being manufactured.

Well, it was called Asbestos. And it sure looked like asbestos, and
one could pour the can out dry on ones hand and aim a natgas-n- oxy
torch at it and ones hand stayed cool.
No, I think it was asbestos.

  #13  
Old September 10th 07, 07:15 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
silverstall[_2_]
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Posts: 9
Default Asbestos

Breathing in one particle of asbestos can lead to asbestosis - a
particulary nasty cancer of the lungs which kills more people than any
other single work-related cause.There is a long delay between first
exposure to asbestos and the start of the disease. This can vary
between 15 and 60 years
Best not to even think of going near the stuff.

  #14  
Old September 10th 07, 07:33 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
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Posts: 355
Default Asbestos

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:15:13 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry silverstall
wrote:

Breathing in one particle of asbestos can lead to asbestosis - a
particulary nasty cancer of the lungs which kills more people than any
other single work-related cause.There is a long delay between first
exposure to asbestos and the start of the disease. This can vary
between 15 and 60 years
Best not to even think of going near the stuff.


While I don't specifically disagree with any of that, especially the thought
that one might be best off not using asbestos, I can't resist taking just a
little issue with the "just one particle" bit.

While that certainly is possible, it's also certainly not probable.

As with most carcinogens, and even most pathogens, in most cases, the chances
of disease occurance increases with exposure. Exposure to a single particle
does give rise to some risk, but it would be a statistically extremely small
number of people who'd be harmed by one particle. At most risk are those with
high levels of chronic repeated exposure over time. At some level of that,
development of the disease becomes almost a certainty. At single particle
exposure levels, I think you'd have trouble finding measurable occurances of the
disease in even large populations, or at least, you'd have trouble separating
that disease population from any "background" normal level not associated with
asbestos.

And given that asbestos is a naturally occuring mineral, not to mention
something that's been used and abused by humans for some time, It's likely that
everyone on the planet is or has been exposed to at least some small level of
asbestos, simply through asbestos particles carried as dust in the air. It's
not an especially dense mineral, and a fibrous form of mineral would more easily
become airborne. I don't have actual figures to support this, but I'd be very
surprised if careful analalysis of common dust didn't now and then find minute
traces of asbestos already there, just about anywhere on the planet.

Asbestos is a problem because it's fibrous nature means particles are not easily
transported back out of the lungs by normal cilia activity (The same applies to
certain sizes and shapes (sharp) of silica particles). The lung normally is
capable of eliminating contaminant particles that we breath in normally. it's
those particles capable of imbedding themselves in the cells that are most able
to cause a problem, and asbestos fits this description. But even so, most
occasional particles are likely removed by the lung normally. It's the
percentage, perhaps small, that isn't, that causes trouble, and that trouble
increases with exposure, since then the lung gets damaged further, and less able
to deal with the contaminants, so the situation snowballs.

While I agree that asbestos is not a material that we normally need to use, and
which presents unacceptable levels of health risk in many cases, to imply that a
single particle is a risk worth worrying about is roughly the same as cautioning
people not to walk outside because they might get hit by a meteor or falling
space debris. It's not impossible, and may even have nappened now and then.
But it's not a statistical likelihood worth loosing sleep over.

Peter
  #15  
Old September 11th 07, 06:08 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
silverstall[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Asbestos

Hi Peter,
I was actually making a quote from a HSE letter i received 6 years ago
when we forced to vacate an entire shopping mall (drake circus -
plymouth) which was subsqeuntly demolished.
I queried their statement and they quoted expert witnesses from a
series of cases brought against the ministry of defence by former
Dockyard workers for asbestosis.
My gut feeling is that the HSE, the courts and other agencies have
overreacted however because we live in a world increasingly fearful of
legal claims they would rather err on the side of caution than take
any risk no matter how statistically improbable that may be.



  #16  
Old September 17th 07, 04:41 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Frosty
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Posts: 155
Default Asbestos

In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:08:44 -0700 a
smoke signal from silverstall rang out,
which was heard to say :

Hi Peter,
I was actually making a quote from a HSE letter i received 6 years ago
when we forced to vacate an entire shopping mall (drake circus -
plymouth) which was subsqeuntly demolished.
I queried their statement and they quoted expert witnesses from a
series of cases brought against the ministry of defence by former
Dockyard workers for asbestosis.
My gut feeling is that the HSE, the courts and other agencies have
overreacted however because we live in a world increasingly fearful of
legal claims they would rather err on the side of caution than take
any risk no matter how statistically improbable that may be.


I originally posted my desire to obtain asbestos.
A person on Orchid promised to send me some but never did.
I don't believe half of the scare-stories repeated by the
hand-wringers in society.
I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form.
FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too.
Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole
****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn



  #17  
Old September 21st 07, 02:07 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
William Black
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Asbestos


"Frosty" wrote in message
...

I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form.
FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too.
Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole
****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn


If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions
and training.

Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and
management of asbestos.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.




  #18  
Old September 26th 07, 07:19 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Frosty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 155
Default Asbestos

In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:07:21 -0700 a
smoke signal from "William Black" rang
out, which was heard to say :


"Frosty" wrote in message
.. .

I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form.
FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too.
Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole
****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn


If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions
and training.

Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and
management of asbestos.


I yawn in your general direction.
(apologies to Monty Python)
  #19  
Old September 26th 07, 04:38 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
ted frater
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Posts: 133
Default Asbestos

Frosty wrote:
In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:07:21 -0700 a
smoke signal from "William Black" rang
out, which was heard to say :


"Frosty" wrote in message
. ..


I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form.
FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too.
Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole
****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn


If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions
and training.

Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and
management of asbestos.



I yawn in your general direction.
(apologies to Monty Python)


Hi Frosty,

As your still wth us!! then I guess your careful enough not to mix
cyanide with acid.
Also do you have the essential antidote right to hand? if this worst
case scenario happened?
Just curious.
Im all for making up my own rules but also make the appropriate
safety measures.
The gvmt dept charged with implementing all these health and safety
regulations have 4 officers covering an area some 100 miles by 50 miles.
They spend most of their time sitting in their local offices doing
paperwork.
they havnt a hope in hell in adequately policing all and every
business in that area let alone anyone working on their own in a shed
somewhere. So the chances of being caught are practically nill.
To give you ane example of the stupidity of the regulations.
you can transport say 50 new car batteries filled with h2so4 quite
legally. as there not classified as waste.
BUT you cannot transport 50 identical batteries that are now dead, ie
sulfated up to your recycling center., where you get a dollar each for
the lead content.
the recycling center have a 38 ton artic that has these batteries
tipped into the steel body, and then driven some 270 miles to the
recycling plant. Thats done at night when the vehicle checking stations
are closed.
En route all the acid thats running out of the upside down batteries
drips all the way !!. Is there any check? no theres not.
So much for health and safety.


Ted
also in the UK.
  #20  
Old September 27th 07, 06:44 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Frosty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 155
Default Asbestos

In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:38:28 -0700 a
smoke signal from Ted Frater rang out, which
was heard to say :

Frosty wrote:
In rec.crafts.jewelry almost on Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:07:21 -0700 a
smoke signal from "William Black" rang
out, which was heard to say :


"Frosty" wrote in message
...


I still want some asbestos, preferably in dry, powdered form.
FWIW, I use cyanide-based plating solutions too.
Do you know that just one teaspoon of cyanide can kill a whole
****-load of people?? Oh dear! yawn

If you're using cyanide in the UK you'll have the appropriate permissions
and training.

Similar permissions and training are required for the handling and
management of asbestos.



I yawn in your general direction.
(apologies to Monty Python)


Hi Frosty,

As your still wth us!! then I guess your careful enough not to mix
cyanide with acid.


And what, pray tell, do you imagine might happen?
Do you have a clue the allowable ratios?
(According to the American Association of Poison Control Centers Toxic
Exposure Surveillance System, in 2004, 8 fatalities occurred out of
257 total cyanide exposures.)

Also do you have the essential antidote right to hand? if this worst
case scenario happened?


Well, I do have a box of amyl nitrate pearls in the 'fridge. I don't
have sodium nitrite, and sodium thiosulfate but I can buy it OTC if I
want to. All Americans who work with cyanides can buy these three
items, along with the various needles and stuff required) without a
doctors prescription.

(Inhaling crushed amyl nitrite pearls is a temporizing measure before
intravenous administration of sodium nitrite. Sodium nitrite induces
methemoglobin in red blood cells, which combines with cyanide, thus
releasing cytochrome oxidase enzyme. Thiosulfate, in its turn, has a
higher affinity to cyanide than methemoglobin and produces
thiocyanate, which is renally excreted.)

Just curious.
Im all for making up my own rules but also make the appropriate
safety measures.


I believe I'm better educated than most American jewelers regarding
the safe handling of most of the chemicals jewelers encounter, only
because I've taken the trouble to research them.

The gvmt dept charged with implementing all these health and safety
regulations have 4 officers covering an area some 100 miles by 50 miles.
They spend most of their time sitting in their local offices doing
paperwork.


Yes, one cannot reply upon government to protect.
We 'Merkin's used to know this.
And without devolving into a philosophical/political debate, we were
once a fiercely independent people, but we've become a nation of
sniveling, dependent, sheep.

they havnt a hope in hell in adequately policing all and every
business in that area let alone anyone working on their own in a shed
somewhere.


Do you work in a shed?
I work in a jewelry store. We even have flush toilets.

So the chances of being caught are practically nill.


Policing? Caught? Oh wait, you're in the UK. Never mind. I see.
Y'all exist at the whim of your government. Your rights are granted by
them. Ya see, over here (we once knew that) our rights come from our
Creator, and our government (is supposed to) exist[s] at our whim.

To give you ane example of the stupidity of the regulations.


I could write whole books on the stupidity of ALL government
regulations...
I suspect our beloved moderator would prefer we don't get into a huge
discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of gov't regulations, but I
do so hope he allows you and the other Brits who will surly take
umbrage with my POV a change to respond.

you can transport say 50 new car batteries filled with h2so4 quite
legally. as there not classified as waste.
BUT you cannot transport 50 identical batteries that are now dead, ie
sulfated up to your recycling center., where you get a dollar each for
the lead content.
the recycling center have a 38 ton artic that has these batteries
tipped into the steel body, and then driven some 270 miles to the
recycling plant. Thats done at night when the vehicle checking stations
are closed.
En route all the acid thats running out of the upside down batteries
drips all the way !!. Is there any check? no theres not.


Gee...big surprise.
Force does work. Only freedom works. The freedom to err is the
ultimate human right, and these gov't thugs' attempts prevent mistakes
by limiting freedom do the human race a grave disservice.

So much for health and safety.


Ted
also in the UK.


 




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