collar question

OK, here is one I have not seen answered yet. I understand the
right-side vs wrong side of a piece of fabric, but when attacking
a collar, thats made of two pieces of material with interfacing
between, which side is the right side and which is the wrong side?
Since the collar folds down to the outside of the garment it is
attached to, down where the collar attaches, is the right side,
the side facing the wearer's skin? Also, when attaching the collar,
it says to grade and clip the raw edge. I think I understand this
(and some of you did post this info...I'm just making sure I absorbed
the info before I attach a collar) to mean I trim one layer of the
collar material to the specified amount back from the raw edge. However,
is that the layer that touches the skin that is made shorter, or the
one away from the skin? Next question, what does that grading do?
Last, do I put the fabric of the garment between the layers of the
collar, or does the graded edge get butted against the raw edge of
the garment neck hole? If it gets butted, is that on the skin side
of the collar, or the outside edge? Or do I end up folding both
edges of the collar in, so that the collar attaches sort of like
bifold bias tape?

On Sat, 08 May 2004 02:21:19 +0000, FtForger wrote:


OK, here is one I have not seen answered yet. I understand the
right-side vs wrong side of a piece of fabric, but when attacking
a collar, thats made of two pieces of material with interfacing
between, which side is the right side and which is the wrong side?
Since the collar folds down to the outside of the garment it is
attached to, down where the collar attaches, is the right side,
the side facing the wearer's skin?

The right side of the fabric is the usual outside showing piece. The
wrong side is the side of the fabric which is on the inside of a garment.
In the case of a collar, the wrong sides would be meeting if there was no
interfacing and the right side of the fabric is on the outside of the
collar on both the top and under sides.... Hope that makes sense... LOL


Also, when attaching the collar,
it says to grade and clip the raw edge. I think I understand this
(and some of you did post this info...I'm just making sure I absorbed
the info before I attach a collar) to mean I trim one layer of the
collar material to the specified amount back from the raw edge. However,
is that the layer that touches the skin that is made shorter, or the
one away from the skin? Next question, what does that grading do?

Ok... here I grade and clip the raw edge of both layers of the collar.
This gives less bulk in the seam. On some garments, I have just clipped
the layer uppermost... See answer below for further explanation...


Last, do I put the fabric of the garment between the layers of the
collar, or does the graded edge get butted against the raw edge of
the garment neck hole? If it gets butted, is that on the skin side
of the collar, or the outside edge? Or do I end up folding both
edges of the collar in, so that the collar attaches sort of like
bifold bias tape?

I don't tend to grade until the collar is attached to the garment, but I
do clip to the seam line. I have always put the raw edges of the under
collar against the raw edges of the garment right sides together. Once
sewn on I then grade the seam and either hand sew or carefully machine sew
the top/outer part of the collar along the seam line you have just sewn,
with all seams inside the collar.

HTH

Mavis

FtForger wrote:

OK, here is one I have not seen answered yet. I understand the
right-side vs wrong side of a piece of fabric, but when attacking
a collar, thats made of two pieces of material with interfacing
between, which side is the right side and which is the wrong side?
Since the collar folds down to the outside of the garment it is
attached to, down where the collar attaches, is the right side,
the side facing the wearer's skin? Also, when attaching the collar,
it says to grade and clip the raw edge. I think I understand this
(and some of you did post this info...I'm just making sure I absorbed
the info before I attach a collar) to mean I trim one layer of the
collar material to the specified amount back from the raw edge. However,
is that the layer that touches the skin that is made shorter, or the
one away from the skin? Next question, what does that grading do?
Last, do I put the fabric of the garment between the layers of the
collar, or does the graded edge get butted against the raw edge of
the garment neck hole? If it gets butted, is that on the skin side
of the collar, or the outside edge? Or do I end up folding both
edges of the collar in, so that the collar attaches sort of like
bifold bias tape?


The proper terms here are 'top collar' and 'under collar'. The top
collar is the side that shows when you are wearing it, and the under
collar is the part that is hidden. If you look at a man's jacket, you
may well see that the under collar is made of a different fabric. With
some shirt and jacket patterns you get two separate pattern pieces for
the top and under collars. They get cut differently to help them lie
properly.
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

On Sat, 08 May 2004 02:21:19 GMT, FtForger wrote:
OK, here is one I have not seen answered yet. I understand the
right-side vs wrong side of a piece of fabric, but when attacking
a collar, thats made of two pieces of material with interfacing
between, which side is the right side and which is the wrong side?

The right side of the fabric remains the right side, and it winds up
on the outside of the collar... both pieces. A proper collar pattern,
imho, has two nearly identical pieces. The larger one is the top collar,
and it's the piece the public will see; the smaller one is the undercollar,
and it will wind up facing the body of the shirt.

Since the collar folds down to the outside of the garment it is
attached to, down where the collar attaches, is the right side,
the side facing the wearer's skin?

The right side of the undercollar will be towards the skin. The wrong
side of both the undercollar and the upper collar will be to the inside
(interfacing side) of the collar.

Also, when attaching the collar,
it says to grade and clip the raw edge. I think I understand this
(and some of you did post this info...I'm just making sure I absorbed
the info before I attach a collar) to mean I trim one layer of the
collar material to the specified amount back from the raw edge. However,
is that the layer that touches the skin that is made shorter, or the
one away from the skin? Next question, what does that grading do?

Clipping allows a curve to lie smoothly. See #4 he
http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00001.asp

Grading is done by holding the scissors at about 45o to a stack of fabric
edges, and trimming -- the idea is to bevel the bulk of the fabric.

If you reduce the seam allowance of the outside edges (the un-notched edges)
of the collar to 1/4" and the neck edge seam allowance to 3/8" before you
even cut out your pattern pieces, you'll not need to grade or clip most
shirting fabrics. Saves time, effort and possible oopses.

Last, do I put the fabric of the garment between the layers of the
collar, or does the graded edge get butted against the raw edge of
the garment neck hole? If it gets butted, is that on the skin side
of the collar, or the outside edge? Or do I end up folding both
edges of the collar in, so that the collar attaches sort of like
bifold bias tape?

The collar completely encloses the raw edge of the neckline, and there
are no raw edges to the collar when it is completed.

Bad ascii art: collar/body seam in cross section; collar is shown
standing up like a turtleneck, rather than in the usual position.
_____________________ topcollar
|__ seam allowance of top collar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar

One of the easy ways to figure stuff like this out is to deconstruct
an old shirt... if one isn't handy, you can usually pick one up for a
buck at the local goodwill or salvation army store. Half an hour with
a seam ripper is an excellent and cheap lesson.

Kay

Kay Lancaster wrote:

The right side of the undercollar will be towards the skin. The wrong
side of both the undercollar and the upper collar will be to the inside
(interfacing side) of the collar.

Kay, I don't mean to argue with someone with a LOT more experience, but
this part seems backwards to me. If the top collar is the side the
public sees, then the right side of the top collar would be against the
skin of the person wearing the garment, at least at the seam where the
collar joins the garment. Wouldn't it?

Also, when attaching the collar,
it says to grade and clip the raw edge. I think I understand this
(and some of you did post this info...I'm just making sure I absorbed
the info before I attach a collar) to mean I trim one layer of the
collar material to the specified amount back from the raw edge. However,
is that the layer that touches the skin that is made shorter, or the
one away from the skin? Next question, what does that grading do?


Clipping allows a curve to lie smoothly. See #4 he
http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00001.asp

Clipping I understand. For anyone that has done wood working, this would
be the same as the stress relief cuts in the surface of a piece of wood
allowing it to be curved. A series of parallel cuts (in wood) usually on
the inside of a piece to be curved to allow that side to compress
together. In fabric, I realize its in the edge, and if its on the inside
of the curve it gets notches cut to allow the gaps to narrow without
having the fabric overlap, or if its on the outside of the curve, simple
slits to allow the fabric to spread at the edge.

Grading is done by holding the scissors at about 45o to a stack of fabric
edges, and trimming -- the idea is to bevel the bulk of the fabric.

If you reduce the seam allowance of the outside edges (the un-notched edges)
of the collar to 1/4" and the neck edge seam allowance to 3/8" before you
even cut out your pattern pieces, you'll not need to grade or clip most
shirting fabrics. Saves time, effort and possible oopses.

See, here is where I get confused...is the "outside edge" the top
collar, which, at the attachment point SHOULD be against the wearers
skin, or the bottom collar?

Or do I end up folding both
edges of the collar in, so that the collar attaches sort of like
bifold bias tape?


The collar completely encloses the raw edge of the neckline, and there
are no raw edges to the collar when it is completed.

Bad ascii art: collar/body seam in cross section; collar is shown
standing up like a turtleneck, rather than in the usual position.
_____________________ topcollar
|__ seam allowance of top collar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar


So, to me this sounds, and looks like I was right, and the collar's raw
edges get turned to the inside, and the raw edge of the neckline of the
garment gets put in between these layers.


One of the easy ways to figure stuff like this out is to deconstruct
an old shirt... if one isn't handy, you can usually pick one up for a
buck at the local goodwill or salvation army store. Half an hour with
a seam ripper is an excellent and cheap lesson.

Thought about this...but then I figured that most factory made garments
are not made exactly as handmade garments. For example, the crotch piece
in underwear. The seams are made as a sandwich with the body piece
between the other two, and then turned so that the stitching is
enclosed, but in "factory made" garments the stitching is probably
exposed. In the case of a collar, I was thinking that some might be
done like this in factory wear (stealing/modifying your ascii art):


s.a. top collar __________________________ topcollar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar



Note: this is assuming that the top collar, as I said several paragraphs
above, goes to the wearer's skin.


Two more things to ask now. 1) does it matter if I attach the
interfacing to the top collar or the bottom collar? 2) If there is
facing involved, would I attach the facing over the inner edge of the
collar seam such that when I turn it into place, it also leaves no
exposed raw edge? Like this:

facing ___________
|
stitch through | |
V |
___|
_____________________ topcollar
|__ seam allowance of top collar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar

Should I attach the facing at the same time as the collar to reduce the
number of times I'm stitching through this, but of course the facing is
NOT folded over when stitching, so when I turn the facing to the inside
of the garment, it covers the all of the inside collar stitching, or at
least the part that the facing covers?

The directions is for one piece collar (no seperate collar
stand)

One method of sewing collars is-

Place undercollar down with outside up
Next, topcollar placed down with outside down (so outsides are
touching)
Finale is placing the interfacing on top (interfacing can be any
lighter cloth that is compatable with washing and won't show
though) cut the collar corners off (interfacing only)

Pin and Sew these three together starting at the neck seamline
and finishing at the neck seamline (don't sew the neck seamline)
Undercollar - trim to 1/4 inch
Topcollar - trim to 3/8 inch - nick where necessary about 1/8
inch
Interfacing - trim to 1/2 inch - nick where necessary about 1/4
inch but, not in line with topcollar nicks
Trim the collar corners
Press seams open
Topcollar- press along seam line that will be sewn to garment
Turn collar to right side out and press

Baste or pin collar to garment - lining center back and the main
points in front
Sew the undercollar and interfacing to garment holding topcollar
out of the way
Press open the seam
Tuck the topcollar seam allowance in place and sew along the
edge on top collar
Top stitch around outer edge of collar and hide the loose
threads inside underside of collar

Top collar will be touching your neck

John

"FtForger" wrote in message
...
|
| OK, here is one I have not seen answered yet. I understand the
| right-side vs wrong side of a piece of fabric, but when
attacking
| a collar, thats made of two pieces of material with
interfacing
| between, which side is the right side and which is the wrong
side?
| Since the collar folds down to the outside of the garment it
is
| attached to, down where the collar attaches, is the right
side,
| the side facing the wearer's skin? Also, when attaching the
collar,
| it says to grade and clip the raw edge. I think I understand
this
| (and some of you did post this info...I'm just making sure I
absorbed
| the info before I attach a collar) to mean I trim one layer of
the
| collar material to the specified amount back from the raw
edge. However,
| is that the layer that touches the skin that is made shorter,
or the
| one away from the skin? Next question, what does that grading
do?
| Last, do I put the fabric of the garment between the layers of
the
| collar, or does the graded edge get butted against the raw
edge of
| the garment neck hole? If it gets butted, is that on the skin
side
| of the collar, or the outside edge? Or do I end up folding
both
| edges of the collar in, so that the collar attaches sort of
like
| bifold bias tape?
|

On Sat, 08 May 2004 08:54:51 -0500, FtForger wrote:



Kay Lancaster wrote:

The right side of the undercollar will be towards the skin. The wrong
side of both the undercollar and the upper collar will be to the inside
(interfacing side) of the collar.

Kay, I don't mean to argue with someone with a LOT more experience, but
this part seems backwards to me. If the top collar is the side the
public sees, then the right side of the top collar would be against the
skin of the person wearing the garment, at least at the seam where the
collar joins the garment. Wouldn't it?

You are getting confused because of the term 'right side of the fabric'
and 'wrong side of the fabric'. The right sides of the fabric on a collar
are on the outside on both pieces and the wrong side of the fabric is on
the inside of the collar on both pieces. This way, if you fold the collar
down, the right side of the fabric is showing, or, if for some reason you
wanted to pull the collar up, then, the right side of the fabric is still
showing...

Clipping allows a curve to lie smoothly. See #4 he
http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00001.asp

Clipping I understand. For anyone that has done wood working, this would
be the same as the stress relief cuts in the surface of a piece of wood
allowing it to be curved. A series of parallel cuts (in wood) usually on
the inside of a piece to be curved to allow that side to compress
together. In fabric, I realize its in the edge, and if its on the inside
of the curve it gets notches cut to allow the gaps to narrow without
having the fabric overlap, or if its on the outside of the curve, simple
slits to allow the fabric to spread at the edge.

You're right here and so is Kay.. In sewing it serves both purposes...


Grading is done by holding the scissors at about 45o to a stack of
fabric edges, and trimming -- the idea is to bevel the bulk of the
fabric.

snip


Bad ascii art: collar/body seam in cross section; collar is shown
standing up like a turtleneck, rather than in the usual position.

I will add here.....
right side of fabric
_____________________ topcollar
|__ seam allowance of top collar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar
right side of fabric

bad ascii... phbbbbt.. I think it was very well done!

snip


Two more things to ask now. 1) does it matter if I attach the
interfacing to the top collar or the bottom collar? 2) If there is
facing involved, would I attach the facing over the inner edge of the
collar seam such that when I turn it into place, it also leaves no
exposed raw edge?
snip
Should I attach the facing at the same time as the collar to reduce the
number of times I'm stitching through this, but of course the facing is
NOT folded over when stitching, so when I turn the facing to the inside
of the garment, it covers the all of the inside collar stitching, or at
least the part that the facing covers?

All patterns I have say to attach the interfacing to the under collar (the
'collar' part you usually don't see on a garment). This is so that it
sits neatly.

The lining or facing should be sewn onto the garment first and treated as
if the facing/lining and body of shirt is one piece. The collar is
attached next, as in the top drawing shown here...

Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to attach a collar and as I
think about it, I have probably used more ways than I have described
here....
HTH,

Mavis

On Sat, 08 May 2004 08:18:14 +0100, Kate Dicey wrote:


The proper terms here are 'top collar' and 'under collar'. The top
collar is the side that shows when you are wearing it, and the under
collar is the part that is hidden. If you look at a man's jacket, you
may well see that the under collar is made of a different fabric. With
some shirt and jacket patterns you get two separate pattern pieces for
the top and under collars. They get cut differently to help them lie
properly.

and the right sides of the fabric are always on the outside of a collar
and the wrong sides are on the inside of the collar... never to be seen
again...

Mavis

The right side of the undercollar will be towards the skin. The wrong
side of both the undercollar and the upper collar will be to the inside
(interfacing side) of the collar.

Kay, I don't mean to argue with someone with a LOT more experience, but
this part seems backwards to me. If the top collar is the side the
public sees, then the right side of the top collar would be against the
skin of the person wearing the garment, at least at the seam where the
collar joins the garment. Wouldn't it?

I see what you mean.. but it's only at the seamline that it's facing
the skin. The bulk of the top collar will be away from the body when
the collar is in the usual wearing position.

If you reduce the seam allowance of the outside edges (the un-notched edges)
of the collar to 1/4" and the neck edge seam allowance to 3/8" before you
even cut out your pattern pieces, you'll not need to grade or clip most
shirting fabrics. Saves time, effort and possible oopses.

See, here is where I get confused...is the "outside edge" the top
collar, which, at the attachment point SHOULD be against the wearers
skin, or the bottom collar?

Take a look at a collar pattern. Along one edge, the one that will
be joined to the neckline, there are notches. The other three edges
are un-notched, and those are the outside edges.

Because there is no wearing stress on the outside edges of a collar --
it's not going to be accidentally stressed by pulling a shirt over
your head, for instance, you can reduce the seam allowance on the outside
edges to just about nothing. 1/4" is a convenient version of "nothing"
for most shirting fabrics, but it could be even smaller. 3/8" seam
allowance, however, is enough to allow for a bit of stress, both from
assembling a collar and from wearing the shirt.

Or do I end up folding both
edges of the collar in, so that the collar attaches sort of like
bifold bias tape?


The collar completely encloses the raw edge of the neckline, and there
are no raw edges to the collar when it is completed.

Bad ascii art: collar/body seam in cross section; collar is shown
standing up like a turtleneck, rather than in the usual position.
_____________________ topcollar
|__ seam allowance of top collar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar


So, to me this sounds, and looks like I was right, and the collar's raw
edges get turned to the inside, and the raw edge of the neckline of the
garment gets put in between these layers.

Correct.

One of the easy ways to figure stuff like this out is to deconstruct
an old shirt... if one isn't handy, you can usually pick one up for a
buck at the local goodwill or salvation army store. Half an hour with
a seam ripper is an excellent and cheap lesson.

Thought about this...but then I figured that most factory made garments
are not made exactly as handmade garments. For example, the crotch piece
in underwear. The seams are made as a sandwich with the body piece
between the other two, and then turned so that the stitching is
enclosed, but in "factory made" garments the stitching is probably
exposed.

Not in the good undies. Cheapies just use serging.

In the case of a collar, I was thinking that some might be
done like this in factory wear (stealing/modifying your ascii art):

Nope, I've never seen a shirt done this way, except maybe as a halloween
costume. You'd have to do something to prevent the top collar (in
your example) from raveling, most of which would be less comfortable.

Besides, when you sew collars all day long, you get really fast. g

The thing that really costs in factory work is number of seams/steps.
Adding more seams (or edges to be finished) just isn't done for fun.
Also, fabric costs are really watched closely -- layouts are so tight that
the trimmings from cutting generally amount to 10% of the fabric. Before
a factory would do a facing, they'd bind with bias or twill tape (like
a rugby shirt collar)... much more economical.

Two more things to ask now. 1) does it matter if I attach the
interfacing to the top collar or the bottom collar?
Ok, this is just my SOP, but if I'm using fusible interfacing, I use
a very light weight and fuse both upper and undercollar. If I'm using
non-fusible, I just use one layer, and it doesn't matter how it goes in.

Fusing both upper and undercollar cuts down on ironing needs later.
Very light weight is needed if you're going to do this, because otherwise
the collar gets too stiff. It's reasonably easy to judge the weight
of a non-fusible interfacing you need with a particular fabric, but
if you try the by-guess-and-by-gosh approach to selecting a fusible,
you'll probably pick one that has too much body if you haven't actually
fused a sample and examined it. Wimpy-looking fusibles make much
stiffer samples than you'd expect, thanks to the glue... sort of like
in woodworking... stack up a few veneers and a little glue, and you've
got a nice stiff piece of plywood -- and it will be stiffer
when loaded than a solid piece of the same thickness of real wood
(of the same species).

You'll see some people advocating fusing the top collar only, and some
advocating only the undercollar. In sewing, the main thing is to do
what works for you with the fabric and pattern you're using.

There are some really good fusible interfacings out there that fuse
well and hold well if you do the fusing correctly. If you get crummy
fusible, however, there's a fair chance you'll get various texture
effects after washing the garment a few times... orange peel, bubbles,
unfused spots, and they look really bad if that's on the top collar.
(Still looks crummy on the undercollar, but you can usually press the
collar well enough for one more wearing.)

I get really adamant (some would say preachy!) about buying good interfacing.
Sometimes the interfacing costs more per yard than the fabric I'm using,
and that's ok with me. I can't justify spending my time with a product
that could screw up the garment long before the fashion fabric dies.

2) If there is
facing involved, would I attach the facing over the inner edge of the
collar seam such that when I turn it into place, it also leaves no
exposed raw edge? Like this:

facing ___________
|
stitch through | |
V |
___|
_____________________ topcollar
|__ seam allowance of top collar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar

Should I attach the facing at the same time as the collar to reduce the
number of times I'm stitching through this, but of course the facing is
NOT folded over when stitching, so when I turn the facing to the inside
of the garment, it covers the all of the inside collar stitching, or at
least the part that the facing covers?

Haven't seen a real faced collar in mumble years. All the facing would do
is add bulk to the neckline and give you yet another layer of fabric to
try to get to lie correctly inside the shirt. I've seen a couple of
home sewing patterns with both a facing and a collar, and I just chalk
it up to yet another inexperienced patternmaker...
Are you perhaps thinking of a standard dress shirt construction, where
there's a double layer back yoke?

The major difference between home sewing methods of shirt construction
and factory methods lies in the construction of the front plackets (home
sewing patterns typically use a separate, sewn-on band -- rtw plackets
are cut-on, interfaced and turned and sewn right on the shirt body --
a much neater and easier finish.) The other big difference is the
RTW patterns already have the seam allowances cut down to correct sewing
allowance, rather than doing the clipping and grading and trimming home
sewing patterns do. Those extra steps the home patterns want you to do
would cost me about an hour to an hour and a half's labor on a shirt.
I don't like to sew THAT well! g

Let me know if you ever want to change the front placket on a standard
shirt pattern from the usual separate band to a cut-on. If the CF is
marked on the body piece, the redraft is dead easy, and takes about 5
minutes.

Kay

Kay Lancaster wrote:
The right side of the undercollar will be towards the skin. The wrong
side of both the undercollar and the upper collar will be to the inside
(interfacing side) of the collar.

Kay, I don't mean to argue with someone with a LOT more experience, but
this part seems backwards to me. If the top collar is the side the
public sees, then the right side of the top collar would be against the
skin of the person wearing the garment, at least at the seam where the
collar joins the garment. Wouldn't it?


I see what you mean.. but it's only at the seamline that it's facing
the skin. The bulk of the top collar will be away from the body when
the collar is in the usual wearing position.

Got it. We were saying the same thing, only I wasn't visualizing what
you said at first. Makes great sense to me now.



If you reduce the seam allowance of the outside edges (the un-notched edges)
of the collar to 1/4" and the neck edge seam allowance to 3/8" before you
even cut out your pattern pieces, you'll not need to grade or clip most
shirting fabrics. Saves time, effort and possible oopses.


See, here is where I get confused...is the "outside edge" the top
collar, which, at the attachment point SHOULD be against the wearers
skin, or the bottom collar?

Take a look at a collar pattern. Along one edge, the one that will
be joined to the neckline, there are notches. The other three edges
are un-notched, and those are the outside edges.

Got it...I must have been sleeping while typing that this morning...


2) If there is facing involved, would I attach the facing over the
inner edge of the collar seam such that when I turn it into place,
it also leaves no exposed raw edge? Like this:

facing ___________
|
stitch through | |
V |
___|

_____________________ topcollar
|__ seam allowance of top collar
body of shirt xxxxxxxxxxxxx SA of body
-- SA of undercollar
|_____________________ undercollar

Should I attach the facing at the same time as the collar to reduce the
number of times I'm stitching through this, but of course the facing is
NOT folded over when stitching, so when I turn the facing to the inside
of the garment, it covers the all of the inside collar stitching, or at
least the part that the facing covers?


Haven't seen a real faced collar in mumble years. All the facing would do
is add bulk to the neckline and give you yet another layer of fabric to
try to get to lie correctly inside the shirt. I've seen a couple of
home sewing patterns with both a facing and a collar, and I just chalk
it up to yet another inexperienced patternmaker...

Its a simplicity pattern I'm working from. Has a front and back facing,
both interfaced. Not a dress shirt, a pull over with a collar and a V neck.

Are you perhaps thinking of a standard dress shirt construction, where
there's a double layer back yoke?

In the pattern it is marked back facing...


The major difference between home sewing methods of shirt construction
and factory methods lies in the construction of the front plackets (home
sewing patterns typically use a separate, sewn-on band -- rtw plackets
are cut-on, interfaced and turned and sewn right on the shirt body --
a much neater and easier finish.)

That sounds a lot like what this patteren called the front facing.

The other big difference is the
RTW patterns already have the seam allowances cut down to correct sewing
allowance, rather than doing the clipping and grading and trimming home
sewing patterns do. Those extra steps the home patterns want you to do
would cost me about an hour to an hour and a half's labor on a shirt.
I don't like to sew THAT well! g

As a beginner...its taken me about 3 hours and I have the collar based
on, and I'm trying to attach the back facing. I may try picking out the
seams created where the front and back facings are supposed to be
connected, and attach the back facing to the collar and body first and
then do the shoulder seams between front and back facings.


Let me know if you ever want to change the front placket on a standard
shirt pattern from the usual separate band to a cut-on. If the CF is
marked on the body piece, the redraft is dead easy, and takes about 5
minutes.

Know where I can see some pics of what you mean here?


Kay