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Resistance soldering



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 27th 07, 05:15 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mlcorson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Resistance soldering

Hello all:
I recently acquired an older Vigor 1300 watt resistance soldering
machine at a garage sale. (small gloat) I'd like to get some input as
far as technique goes. Do you use flux? Should I avoid getting the
flux on the carbon ground and probe? Where would I get carbon blocks
and probes? Can I sharpen my existing probe? Sigh, information on the
technique seems to be scarce. Anyone using this technique for
soldering that could give me a few pointers? Thanks.
-Mike
St. Louis, Mo

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  #2  
Old June 28th 07, 03:35 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
ted frater
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Resistance soldering

mlcorson wrote:
Hello all:
I recently acquired an older Vigor 1300 watt resistance soldering
machine at a garage sale. (small gloat) I'd like to get some input as
far as technique goes. Do you use flux? Should I avoid getting the
flux on the carbon ground and probe? Where would I get carbon blocks
and probes? Can I sharpen my existing probe? Sigh, information on the
technique seems to be scarce. Anyone using this technique for
soldering that could give me a few pointers? Thanks.
-Mike
St. Louis, Mo


1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere?
Now you mention resistance soldering.
that is a contradiction in terms.
Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together
to resistance joining.
this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage
through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together.
The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to
heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals
together at that point.
Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need.
Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding.
Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of
otherwise impossible joining jobs.
this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash
but joining or capacitor discharge welding.
.. your machine could just be that.
  #3  
Old June 28th 07, 03:54 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Peter W.. Rowe,
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default Resistance soldering

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:35:24 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater
wrote:

1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere?
Now you mention resistance soldering.
that is a contradiction in terms.
Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together
to resistance joining.
this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage
through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together.
The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to
heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals
together at that point.
Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need.
Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding.
Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of
otherwise impossible joining jobs.
this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash
but joining or capacitor discharge welding.
. your machine could just be that.


The machine he's got is indeed used for soldering, Ted, not welding. The
machines were (and maybe still are, I don't know) used mostly by those jewelers
doing only occasional repairs in a store, or in locations where a torch wasn't
allowed or practical. Not a major tool for involved fabrication, but fine for
things like repairing a broken joint on an eyeglass frame, or sizing rings, or
other simple tasks. I've seen someone good with them even retip prongs on a
diamond with one of these. They work by having good electrical contact with one
part of an object, and small contact area with the other electrode (the pencil
or probe, etc). When low voltage, high current, juice is passed through this,
the area of highest resistance is that contact point between the metal and the
probe, since all the carbon electrodes and the metal itself, conducts current
just fine. So the small contact area quickly heats up enough to flow solder
placed next to it in the desired joint. The things take some practice and
getting used to, but are relatively simple and easy to use once one gets it
figured out. They are not capacitive discharge machines, supplying constant
current when the pedal switch is depressed, for however long the switch is
depressed, so they are not like the tack welders or spot welders you're thinking
of. A little like how you describe resistance joining, but these are smaller
table top machines, and don't usually get parts hot enough to actually fuse the
two parts of the joint together, but do rather rely on the use of solder.

For the OP, you can make new electrodes from any commercial graphite rod or
plate. Easy to find on ebay, as well as other sources (graphite rods are sold
as stirring rods for molten metal, for example) Best way to learn how to use
it is just to play with it and experiment with scraps. Gold solders joining
gold or copper based metals will work more easily than silver, since silver's
high thermal and electrical conductivity will require much more power from the
machine. Not all these machines had the power to do more than small joints in
silver. Can't help you more than that. It's been 30 years since I last played
with one of those things. I found them to work, but much more frustrating than
a torch with which I was already more familiar. But the watchmaker in that
store I was working in at the time, was quite happy with the Vigor soldering
machine, and could make it do just about anything he needed. One advantage over
a torch is that heat is really localized to the contact area, so with practice,
heat effects like fire scale or discoloration, etc, can be much more localized
than is sometimes possible with a torch (think about things like those eyeglass
frames, where any heat transfer would damage a finish, often a lacquer finish
not easily patched.) The basic principals of soldering with these are the same
as usual. you need clean metal, clean solder, a decent fit, and flux, same as
with a torch. Diamonds, if you're working on prongs, still need the usual boric
acid coating. Colored stones, if you're working near by, can still be
damaged... Etc. Etc. Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe
  #4  
Old June 29th 07, 04:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mlcorson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Resistance soldering

On Jun 27, 9:54 pm, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:35:24 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater



wrote:
1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere?
Now you mention resistance soldering.
that is a contradiction in terms.
Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together
to resistance joining.
this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage
through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together.
The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to
heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals
together at that point.
Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need.
Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding.
Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of
otherwise impossible joining jobs.
this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash
but joining or capacitor discharge welding.
. your machine could just be that.


The machine he's got is indeed used for soldering, Ted, not welding. The
machines were (and maybe still are, I don't know) used mostly by those jewelers
doing only occasional repairs in a store, or in locations where a torch wasn't
allowed or practical. Not a major tool for involved fabrication, but fine for
things like repairing a broken joint on an eyeglass frame, or sizing rings, or
other simple tasks. I've seen someone good with them even retip prongs on a
diamond with one of these. They work by having good electrical contact with one
part of an object, and small contact area with the other electrode (the pencil
or probe, etc). When low voltage, high current, juice is passed through this,
the area of highest resistance is that contact point between the metal and the
probe, since all the carbon electrodes and the metal itself, conducts current
just fine. So the small contact area quickly heats up enough to flow solder
placed next to it in the desired joint. The things take some practice and
getting used to, but are relatively simple and easy to use once one gets it
figured out. They are not capacitive discharge machines, supplying constant
current when the pedal switch is depressed, for however long the switch is
depressed, so they are not like the tack welders or spot welders you're thinking
of. A little like how you describe resistance joining, but these are smaller
table top machines, and don't usually get parts hot enough to actually fuse the
two parts of the joint together, but do rather rely on the use of solder.

For the OP, you can make new electrodes from any commercial graphite rod or
plate. Easy to find on ebay, as well as other sources (graphite rods are sold
as stirring rods for molten metal, for example) Best way to learn how to use
it is just to play with it and experiment with scraps. Gold solders joining
gold or copper based metals will work more easily than silver, since silver's
high thermal and electrical conductivity will require much more power from the
machine. Not all these machines had the power to do more than small joints in
silver. Can't help you more than that. It's been 30 years since I last played
with one of those things. I found them to work, but much more frustrating than
a torch with which I was already more familiar. But the watchmaker in that
store I was working in at the time, was quite happy with the Vigor soldering
machine, and could make it do just about anything he needed. One advantage over
a torch is that heat is really localized to the contact area, so with practice,
heat effects like fire scale or discoloration, etc, can be much more localized
than is sometimes possible with a torch (think about things like those eyeglass
frames, where any heat transfer would damage a finish, often a lacquer finish
not easily patched.) The basic principals of soldering with these are the same
as usual. you need clean metal, clean solder, a decent fit, and flux, same as
with a torch. Diamonds, if you're working on prongs, still need the usual boric
acid coating. Colored stones, if you're working near by, can still be
damaged... Etc. Etc. Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe


Thanks for the info.
-Mike

  #5  
Old June 29th 07, 05:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
ted frater
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 133
Default Resistance soldering

Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:35:24 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater
wrote:


1st of all, any chance of a picture? posted somewhere?
Now you mention resistance soldering.
that is a contradiction in terms.
Soldering is a quite different technique of joining metal together
to resistance joining.
this latter technique relies on passing a high current at low voltage
through the 2 pieces of metal., whilst pressing them together.
The pulse of current is so strong in amps that it causes the metal to
heat up to its melting point thus fusing or spot welding the metals
together at that point.
Normally copper electrodes are used for this. Nor is flux used. No need.
Carbon would be too soft for anything other than dental wire welding.
Ive a couple of spot welders, as there called and use them for a no of
otherwise impossible joining jobs.
this is different to the other type of resistance welding called flash
but joining or capacitor discharge welding.
. your machine could just be that.



The machine he's got is indeed used for soldering, Ted, not welding. The
machines were (and maybe still are, I don't know) used mostly by those jewelers
doing only occasional repairs in a store, or in locations where a torch wasn't
allowed or practical. Not a major tool for involved fabrication, but fine for
things like repairing a broken joint on an eyeglass frame, or sizing rings, or
other simple tasks. I've seen someone good with them even retip prongs on a
diamond with one of these. They work by having good electrical contact with one
part of an object, and small contact area with the other electrode (the pencil
or probe, etc). When low voltage, high current, juice is passed through this,
the area of highest resistance is that contact point between the metal and the
probe, since all the carbon electrodes and the metal itself, conducts current
just fine. So the small contact area quickly heats up enough to flow solder
placed next to it in the desired joint. The things take some practice and
getting used to, but are relatively simple and easy to use once one gets it
figured out. They are not capacitive discharge machines, supplying constant
current when the pedal switch is depressed, for however long the switch is
depressed, so they are not like the tack welders or spot welders you're thinking
of. A little like how you describe resistance joining, but these are smaller
table top machines, and don't usually get parts hot enough to actually fuse the
two parts of the joint together, but do rather rely on the use of solder.

For the OP, you can make new electrodes from any commercial graphite rod or
plate. Easy to find on ebay, as well as other sources (graphite rods are sold
as stirring rods for molten metal, for example) Best way to learn how to use
it is just to play with it and experiment with scraps. Gold solders joining
gold or copper based metals will work more easily than silver, since silver's
high thermal and electrical conductivity will require much more power from the
machine. Not all these machines had the power to do more than small joints in
silver. Can't help you more than that. It's been 30 years since I last played
with one of those things. I found them to work, but much more frustrating than
a torch with which I was already more familiar. But the watchmaker in that
store I was working in at the time, was quite happy with the Vigor soldering
machine, and could make it do just about anything he needed. One advantage over
a torch is that heat is really localized to the contact area, so with practice,
heat effects like fire scale or discoloration, etc, can be much more localized
than is sometimes possible with a torch (think about things like those eyeglass
frames, where any heat transfer would damage a finish, often a lacquer finish
not easily patched.) The basic principals of soldering with these are the same
as usual. you need clean metal, clean solder, a decent fit, and flux, same as
with a torch. Diamonds, if you're working on prongs, still need the usual boric
acid coating. Colored stones, if you're working near by, can still be
damaged... Etc. Etc. Hope that helps.

Peter Rowe


One never stops learning.!!
Here in the UK its something Ie never heard of, gess its a US speciality.
Despite being a reular in the Birmingham jewellery quarter ans
associated speciallist tool suppliers.
  #6  
Old July 5th 07, 05:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mbstevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 165
Default Resistance soldering

The Borg wrote:
Resistance is futile.


Who would want to resist if they could get outfitted with some of that
Borg jewelry.
 




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