was Banned from the Garden!--very longnowschool

You were an Art student at SMU?

Where she both finished and dropped out after a year.

And I'm not sure where her certification in Travel and Tourism fit in there
either......

Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
Updated: 7/7/03 -- now available Dragon of the Stars
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)

nope - finished the YEAR - had to leave because of financial problems - I
got my DIPLOMA in Travel and Tourism the next year ~ I couldn't afford to go
for 6 years to decide what I wanted to do with my life. Really Caryn,
reading thru ALL the posts would certainly give you a little edge on being
CORRECT.

Sarah

"Caryn" wrote in message
...

You were an Art student at SMU?

Where she both finished and dropped out after a year.

And I'm not sure where her certification in Travel and Tourism fit in
there
either......

Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
Updated: 7/7/03 -- now available Dragon of the Stars
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)

sunflower wrote:
nope - finished the YEAR - had to leave because of financial problems - I
got my DIPLOMA in Travel and Tourism the next year ~ I couldn't afford to go
for 6 years to decide what I wanted to do with my life. Really Caryn,
reading thru ALL the posts would certainly give you a little edge on being
CORRECT.

You're reading ALL the posts? Well, that won't last. And I sincerely
doubt that anybody here either reads all the posts or expects others to.
We'd never get anything else done.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*barnacle-encrusted bitch~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

On 7/21/03 4:42 PM,"sunflower" posted:

Excuse me? Community college is not a good education?

That's a pretty rude statement if you ask me. Just because I am not going
to an Ivy League School doesn't mean I am not getting a good level of
education. (who called you a snob?)

Sarah, it certainly doesn't mean you're not getting a good level of
education. But, a different one than a 4 year university. And as you no
doubt understand, different schools are more selective, or demanding in who
they admit, upon what basis. Similarly, different areas of study vary in
their demands, the rigor or difficulty of those demands, and what skills or
talents are required to do them. It may be quite difficult to stay in some
schools with good, or passing grades, while, IME, it's virtually impossible
to flunk out of a community college. In the states, Ivy League schools are
held with a certain prestige, similarly OxBridge vs Red Brick in the UK. I
am sure that Meredith was dishing a little tease on you, as us hard core
science majors are wont to do with others, as well as having her tongue in
cheek when stating that she's an Ivy League snob.

Community colleges provide a good and useful service in education. They are
indeed not comprised of the same "selective" background that most 4-year
universities are, or even more selective schools. Many intelligent people go
to community college, either because that's all they can afford, or they
didn't do well in high school and can't get into a 4 year school, or aren't
emotionally, maturity-wise, prepared to go to university - or aren't suited
to a career that requires university education, and are best suited with
skills they can acquire at a community college.

Different people have different talents, skill sets. Doesn't make them
better humans. However, some people are more intellectually gifted, some in
math, or logic, can understand abstract, analytical ideas, while others are
artistically brilliant. And still there is a place for the guy who does
great dry-wall, but can't understand N-dimensional mathematics.

Students study different things. Grading systems have to be taken in
context, as do all statistics when you want them to be valid. Maintaining a
"B" average, 90%, which here would equate to a solid 3.0 in most schools, is
fine. But, your "B" in tourism (I assume, since you haven't told us what
classes you took, or how many credits) was undoubtedly less difficult to
achieve than Meredith's "B" in physics at an Ivy. For some of us, only doing
a 12 minute presentation would be wondrous gift - as opposed to writing a
100-150 page term paper in multiple classes. Grading scales are just that,
IME (& I'm sure Elizabeth will correct me) the "curve" is reflective of a
combination of the absolute scale the instructor has for right & wrong, as
well as the performance of the students. I once gave a test in Thermo, where
the average grade was 40, with the highest being a 72. Well, the prof helped
write the exam, it was a bit difficult, and clearly we had to slide the
grades a bit, else everyone had failed or gotten a D. Some profs set their
scale based on the highest, lowest, and median grades - so that the person
with the highest grade is noted as "setting the curve" (my classmates in
advanced stats hated me - I did it for all our tests - not to brag, I just
for some reason, got it)

When you're telling us how well you did, and in a bragging tone - just
expect folks to comment back. It's great that you're doing so well,
respectably. But, try to have some perspective. The competition in your
classes is likely to be much less stiff than in Meredith's classes, or any
university.

Personally, I've found that there are smart kids, or hard-working kids, or
gifted kids, or not so gifted at any school. You get what you can out of the
educational institution. If you're brilliant, and at a "mediocre" school,
you'll no doubt stand out, and find opportunities to shine, get extra
education out of it. Similarly, if you're at a great school, you may just be
happy to stay competently in the mix.

"Meredith" wrote in message

Ah, well that explains that, then. I'd estimate that the average amount
of homework for my college classes was at least 10h/week for each, more
if they were in the humanities. I knew very few people who had time to
work more than 10h/week (at an actual job). But then again, I am an Ivy
League snob so there's probably no comparision.

I totally understand. When I was in my 3rd year of undergrad (did 2 degrees
at once, 3 yrs, 1 summer term), I was very busy - senior engineers, like
science or architecture majors, have lots of projects. I was president of
the College of Engrg & Arch Council (reps from all the orgs), and served as
a student on the Dean's council (with all the faculty chairs). My now SIL,
then DF of my DB, was majoring in primary education (as in she's happiest
teaching up to age 8), and had incredibly easy courses. Really. Doing
posters of "Tommy Tooth" . She wasn't certing in any specialty areas & no,
I'm not denigrating teachers. Anyhow, she'd ask me to go with her shopping
or to the beach on the weekend, and I'd respond "I can't - I'm working -
project meeting, or whatever" . She'd then answer "But it's the weekend, no
one studies on the weekend" . Says it all.

I really had a hard time - basically giving up much sleep - in working one
year, and taking 19 hours. I just always spent time in the library til
closing, or in some lab - often way into the wee hours. And grad school -
forget that. My crazy first advisor (German) had come from a system where
the students take classes, but don't actually have to go to class, and at
the end of term take an exam. Very different. He convinced me to take 4
classes (not 3) my first term, plus of course expected 40 hours work on my
project (NASA grant with deliverables) and help with some other crap. It was
awful - one of the courses was way too advanced for a first year grad
student, even though I'd taken some grad courses while in undergrad, and 3
classes was plenty. Each of those classes had at least 10-20 hours homework
a week, added on to project work, and trying to live. Advisor had nervous
breakdown - truly - and the department chair made life hell for his 8
students for quite a while. But, we all kind of survived. I just taught my
last year & one extra semester - I volunteered -kind of. That was even
tougher time-wise. But interesting, because the school is very selective on
admissions, and has a famous Arts/Drama College, and Engineering/Science.
Very schizoid campus. Would be interesting having kids come to my office
"but I never got a "C" before" or you must be wrong, pleading, etc. I was
pretty generous, and would let them redo a homework, turn it in 2 days
later. It's hard teaching something abstract - I don't envy the philophers
amongst us. Trying to get budding engineers - who all think they're
brilliant - to understand entropy, well, that's another story.

Regards,
Ellice - whose DH is an Ivy snob, but doesn't act like it. Although, I did
give him an Ivy topiary for his office when some crazy old guy, was giving
him grief - it's quite symbolic

Well said Ellice. Thank you ~ I appreciate your comments.

Sarah
"Ellice" wrote in message
...
On 7/21/03 4:42 PM,"sunflower" posted:

Excuse me? Community college is not a good education?

That's a pretty rude statement if you ask me. Just because I am not
going
to an Ivy League School doesn't mean I am not getting a good level of
education. (who called you a snob?)

Sarah, it certainly doesn't mean you're not getting a good level of
education. But, a different one than a 4 year university. And as you no
doubt understand, different schools are more selective, or demanding in
who
they admit, upon what basis. Similarly, different areas of study vary in
their demands, the rigor or difficulty of those demands, and what skills
or
talents are required to do them. It may be quite difficult to stay in some
schools with good, or passing grades, while, IME, it's virtually
impossible
to flunk out of a community college. In the states, Ivy League schools are
held with a certain prestige, similarly OxBridge vs Red Brick in the UK. I
am sure that Meredith was dishing a little tease on you, as us hard core
science majors are wont to do with others, as well as having her tongue in
cheek when stating that she's an Ivy League snob.

Community colleges provide a good and useful service in education. They
are
indeed not comprised of the same "selective" background that most 4-year
universities are, or even more selective schools. Many intelligent people
go
to community college, either because that's all they can afford, or they
didn't do well in high school and can't get into a 4 year school, or
aren't
emotionally, maturity-wise, prepared to go to university - or aren't
suited
to a career that requires university education, and are best suited with
skills they can acquire at a community college.

Different people have different talents, skill sets. Doesn't make them
better humans. However, some people are more intellectually gifted, some
in
math, or logic, can understand abstract, analytical ideas, while others
are
artistically brilliant. And still there is a place for the guy who does
great dry-wall, but can't understand N-dimensional mathematics.

Students study different things. Grading systems have to be taken in
context, as do all statistics when you want them to be valid. Maintaining
a
"B" average, 90%, which here would equate to a solid 3.0 in most schools,
is
fine. But, your "B" in tourism (I assume, since you haven't told us what
classes you took, or how many credits) was undoubtedly less difficult to
achieve than Meredith's "B" in physics at an Ivy. For some of us, only
doing
a 12 minute presentation would be wondrous gift - as opposed to writing a
100-150 page term paper in multiple classes. Grading scales are just
that,
IME (& I'm sure Elizabeth will correct me) the "curve" is reflective of a
combination of the absolute scale the instructor has for right & wrong, as
well as the performance of the students. I once gave a test in Thermo,
where
the average grade was 40, with the highest being a 72. Well, the prof
helped
write the exam, it was a bit difficult, and clearly we had to slide the
grades a bit, else everyone had failed or gotten a D. Some profs set their
scale based on the highest, lowest, and median grades - so that the person
with the highest grade is noted as "setting the curve" (my classmates in
advanced stats hated me - I did it for all our tests - not to brag, I just
for some reason, got it)

When you're telling us how well you did, and in a bragging tone - just
expect folks to comment back. It's great that you're doing so well,
respectably. But, try to have some perspective. The competition in your
classes is likely to be much less stiff than in Meredith's classes, or any
university.

Personally, I've found that there are smart kids, or hard-working kids, or
gifted kids, or not so gifted at any school. You get what you can out of
the
educational institution. If you're brilliant, and at a "mediocre" school,
you'll no doubt stand out, and find opportunities to shine, get extra
education out of it. Similarly, if you're at a great school, you may just
be
happy to stay competently in the mix.

"Meredith" wrote in message

Ah, well that explains that, then. I'd estimate that the average
amount
of homework for my college classes was at least 10h/week for each, more
if they were in the humanities. I knew very few people who had time to
work more than 10h/week (at an actual job). But then again, I am an
Ivy
League snob so there's probably no comparision.

I totally understand. When I was in my 3rd year of undergrad (did 2
degrees
at once, 3 yrs, 1 summer term), I was very busy - senior engineers, like
science or architecture majors, have lots of projects. I was president of
the College of Engrg & Arch Council (reps from all the orgs), and served
as
a student on the Dean's council (with all the faculty chairs). My now SIL,
then DF of my DB, was majoring in primary education (as in she's happiest
teaching up to age 8), and had incredibly easy courses. Really. Doing
posters of "Tommy Tooth" . She wasn't certing in any specialty areas & no,
I'm not denigrating teachers. Anyhow, she'd ask me to go with her shopping
or to the beach on the weekend, and I'd respond "I can't - I'm working -
project meeting, or whatever" . She'd then answer "But it's the weekend,
no
one studies on the weekend" . Says it all.

I really had a hard time - basically giving up much sleep - in working one
year, and taking 19 hours. I just always spent time in the library til
closing, or in some lab - often way into the wee hours. And grad school -
forget that. My crazy first advisor (German) had come from a system where
the students take classes, but don't actually have to go to class, and at
the end of term take an exam. Very different. He convinced me to take 4
classes (not 3) my first term, plus of course expected 40 hours work on my
project (NASA grant with deliverables) and help with some other crap. It
was
awful - one of the courses was way too advanced for a first year grad
student, even though I'd taken some grad courses while in undergrad, and 3
classes was plenty. Each of those classes had at least 10-20 hours
homework
a week, added on to project work, and trying to live. Advisor had nervous
breakdown - truly - and the department chair made life hell for his 8
students for quite a while. But, we all kind of survived. I just taught my
last year & one extra semester - I volunteered -kind of. That was even
tougher time-wise. But interesting, because the school is very selective
on
admissions, and has a famous Arts/Drama College, and Engineering/Science.
Very schizoid campus. Would be interesting having kids come to my office
"but I never got a "C" before" or you must be wrong, pleading, etc. I was
pretty generous, and would let them redo a homework, turn it in 2 days
later. It's hard teaching something abstract - I don't envy the philophers
amongst us. Trying to get budding engineers - who all think they're
brilliant - to understand entropy, well, that's another story.

Regards,
Ellice - whose DH is an Ivy snob, but doesn't act like it. Although, I
did
give him an Ivy topiary for his office when some crazy old guy, was giving
him grief - it's quite symbolic

On 7/21/03 8:38 PM,"sunflower" posted:

First year Bach. of Arts yep! In 1997 right out of High School. I wanted
to leave at Christmas (I knew it was wayyy too much $$ to pay when I didn't
know what I wanted to do) but I promised myself I would stick out the year.

Had a great time there! Took some neat courses, including Greek Mythology,
as well as Abnormal/Normal Psyc (first level course)

*snip*

Of course, I'm just curious - which SMU? And sounds like normal 1st year
courses.

wrote in message

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:20:11 -0300, "sunflower"
wrote:

Definitely different here.

I am taking Business Admin. All of my credits are transferrable to a
post
secondary institution should I choose to further my education (which will
probably happen)

Basically it's 1/2 the cost. I cannot afford university - at least right
now - I'm hoping to eventually (perhaps) get my BCOMM maj. accounting
thru
distance later on down the road.

Could you tell us what a "BCOMM maj. Accounting" is? Are you saying an
Associate Arts (2 yr) degree from the Comm College? Or hoping to get a
Bachelors in Business Admin (perhaps Commerce?) ?

In fact, if you look at employability - Community College offers some
advantages over Universities. Job readyness and interview training etc.
I
didn't receive nearly as much support when I attended SMU as I have
noticed
I receive in the smaller environment of a Community College. I am

Generally speaking, as someone only in their first year of University
Education, you weren't in line for interviewing, job prep. That's the time
you're supposed to be concentrating on learning your basics, and figuring
out what you hope to concentrate your studies in. If you learn the basics
well, then your better prepared to build upon that, and do the more
difficult, detailed, specialty coursework. Unless you're in a cooperative
education program (some engineering schools do this - you work a term in
some industry, then school a term, and continue alternating after your
freshman year - so degree takes a 5th year) the support in getting a
professional job won't be aimed at you, until you're a senior. A university
wouldn't consider you prepared for "interviewing" at that introductory level
of your education. OTOH, most universities have great recruiting centers,
and resources, counselors, aimed at helping their seniors, graduates be
well-placed in the work world. I did some recruiting for the lab I worked
at, it was fun, and interesting.

I'd guess the reality is you're just more comfortable in a smaller
environment. It would've been unrealistic to expect professional job
placement assistance as a freshman. Heck, IMHO, it's unrealistic to expect
freshman to actually know what they want to major in, which is why it's so
good to get general education, and some survey courses in that year.

TOTALLY
not slamming University Education - if I had the $$ I would have finished
my
degree - of course back in the day I was an Arts student

You were an Art student at SMU?

would have had to go back for at least 2 more years after getting my
degree.

Generally, that is the case, 2 more years for a 4 yr BA/BS/BFA/BE after a 2
yr Assoc degree. And for some of those, it's probably more like 2.5 years.

ellice

On 7/22/03 12:27 PM,"Dr. Brat" posted:

sunflower wrote:
nope - finished the YEAR - had to leave because of financial problems - I
got my DIPLOMA in Travel and Tourism the next year ~ I couldn't afford to go
for 6 years to decide what I wanted to do with my life. Really Caryn,
reading thru ALL the posts would certainly give you a little edge on being
CORRECT.

You're reading ALL the posts? Well, that won't last. And I sincerely
doubt that anybody here either reads all the posts or expects others to.
We'd never get anything else done.

Elizabeth
Too true, Elizabeth. Yikes. It would take hours.

ellice

ahhh Should have realized! There's bound to be some duplications out
there St. Mary's University is in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Sarah


"Ellice" wrote in message
...
On 7/22/03 1:19 PM,"sunflower" posted:

St. Mary's University - I enjoyed the courses is what I meant by
'neat' - I
learned some interesting things and I really enjoyed the recommended
reading
lists for Greek Myth and Ab/Nor Psych

Those are fun courses. I took Abnormal Psych - it was my take a break from
engineering and math set of classes. Took Intro Psych & then
Abnormal.Intro
an easy A. Abnormal, not - it was a 300 level class, I was a sophmore -
but
I learned a lot. Thanks for telling us the school - there is a well-known
SMU in the states, Southern Methodist University, so you're abbreviation,
without first telling us the full name, was a little confusing. Trying to
get some perspective.

Sarah
"Ellice" wrote in message
...
*snip*

wrote in message

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:20:11 -0300, "sunflower"
wrote:
*snip*
Basically it's 1/2 the cost. I cannot afford university - at least
right
now - I'm hoping to eventually (perhaps) get my BCOMM maj.
accounting
thru
distance later on down the road.

Could you tell us what a "BCOMM maj. Accounting" is? Are you saying an
Associate Arts (2 yr) degree from the Comm College? Or hoping to get a
Bachelors in Business Admin (perhaps Commerce?) ?

Seriously, I've never seen the "BCOMM" designation, so it was a real
question.


*snipped the rest*

ellice

On 7/22/03 1:40 PM,"sunflower" posted:

ahhh Should have realized! There's bound to be some duplications out
there St. Mary's University is in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

*snip*

Got it, curiousity salved. Partially.

Could you tell us what a "BCOMM maj. Accounting" is? Are you saying an
Associate Arts (2 yr) degree from the Comm College? Or hoping to get a
Bachelors in Business Admin (perhaps Commerce?) ?

Seriously, I've never seen the "BCOMM" designation, so it was a real
question.

ellice

Oh that's Bach. of Commerce with a major in Accounting At the end of
next year I will have my Business Admin Diploma from CC, major in
accounting. Hopefully afterwards I will be taking distance courses in
order to obtain my Bach. of Commerce, with a major in Accounting.

I am also planning on doing the Canadian Payroll Certification Program this
year (most of my credits are transferrable, and I have been doing payroll
for a few years now)

Sarah
"Ellice" wrote in message
...
On 7/22/03 1:40 PM,"sunflower" posted:

ahhh Should have realized! There's bound to be some duplications
out
there St. Mary's University is in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

*snip*

Got it, curiousity salved. Partially.

Could you tell us what a "BCOMM maj. Accounting" is? Are you saying
an
Associate Arts (2 yr) degree from the Comm College? Or hoping to get
a
Bachelors in Business Admin (perhaps Commerce?) ?

Seriously, I've never seen the "BCOMM" designation, so it was a real
question.

ellice