gluing organics to metal

What is the best glue to use to join an organic material like pearls to a
sterling silver post?

Epoxies usually require mixing which is something I really don't want to do
unless there is not an alternative adhesive.

Any brand name adhesives you like better than others for the same
application?

ST

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Snaggeltooth schrieb:
What is the best glue to use to join an organic material like pearls to a
sterling silver post?

Epoxies usually require mixing which is something I really don't want to do
unless there is not an alternative adhesive.

Any brand name adhesives you like better than others for the same
application?

ST

Every epoxy is good enough for that. Important is only your treatment.
Cleaning, perfect mixing of the ingredients, and good contact to the surfaces.
So it´s a good idea to sand the silver surface before.

Mit freundlichem Gruß,
Heinrich Butschal
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:40:42 +0000, Snaggeltooth wrote:

What is the best glue to use to join an organic material like pearls to a
sterling silver post?

Epoxies usually require mixing which is something I really don't want to do
unless there is not an alternative adhesive.

Any brand name adhesives you like better than others for the same
application?

The quick drying epoxies usually do not form as strong a bond, and I
would stay away from them. The strongest epoxy I've found is JB Weld.
Both surfaces to be joined need to have a bit of tooth and must be very
clean.

BTW, don't do it with anything valuable -- use a mechanical
mount that can be removed.
--
mbstevens
http://www.mbstevens.com/

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:12:15 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry mbstevens
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:40:42 +0000, Snaggeltooth wrote:

What is the best glue to use to join an organic material like pearls to a
sterling silver post?

Epoxies usually require mixing which is something I really don't want to do
unless there is not an alternative adhesive.

Any brand name adhesives you like better than others for the same
application?

The quick drying epoxies usually do not form as strong a bond, and I
would stay away from them. The strongest epoxy I've found is JB Weld.
Both surfaces to be joined need to have a bit of tooth and must be very
clean.

BTW, don't do it with anything valuable -- use a mechanical
mount that can be removed.

I'll second the comment on the five minute/quick epoxies. Among other things,
they're not waterproof (think perspiration) over time. My own favorite with
epoxy for jewelry is Hughes "epoxy 330" if you want the cleanest look, with a
transparent epoxy, or "epoxy 220", which is slightly stronger, but has an amber
color, not clear. Both set up in about an hour, but can be speeded up by
placing very close to an incandescent light bulb to heat them as they cure. Then
it's ten minutes. Fine with pearls (don't do this to amber, I suspect...)

As to the not doing this with valuables, well, I'll beg to differ a bit, at
least as it comes to pearls. Epoxies ARE removable. "Attack" solvent takes the
bonds apart with no damage to parts or gems, SO LONG AS THE GEM CAN WITHSTAND
THE SOLVENT. Cultured pearls are fine with this. Mabe or other assembled
pearls or things like doublet and triplet gems, are not. Resin gems like amber
probably are not OK with it either, though I'm not sure.

The other class of glues that are commonly used with pearl posts, by the way,
are the cyanoacrylates (super glues) Most perform about the same once cured.
Harder to disassemble, though you usually can do it with accurate application of
heat to the metal. Super glues require a very close fit between the peg and the
pearl, or other parts being jointed, to work well. They're not good gap fillers
(and the gel types that DO fill gaps, are not that strong). Epoxies are better
with gap filling. And, though you have to mess with mixing, they're neater to
apply. Super glues have some nasty traps, such as the propensity to leave a
whiteish foggy coating on things if, after you glue the pearl on your finished
masterpiece, you make the mistake of cleaning it, steaming it, or putting it in
a ziplock bag too soon after the glue sets.

cheers

Peter

Great info! Although I have to say that if I intend to glue something
together, I want it to stay there forever so being able to disassemble is
not even a factor.
I tried using G-S Hypo Cement but it would not hold. Then I used E6000
which did take, but that stuff is too thick and gunky and hard to use in
very small applications without getting the spider web effect. I've
noticed the whitish film when using super glue, which is why I didn't
attempt using it on good matched pearls and sterling. So, I'll try the
Hughes 330 and see how it does.

thanks guys,

ST



"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:12:15 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry mbstevens
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:40:42 +0000, Snaggeltooth wrote:

What is the best glue to use to join an organic material like pearls to
a
sterling silver post?

Epoxies usually require mixing which is something I really don't want to
do
unless there is not an alternative adhesive.

Any brand name adhesives you like better than others for the same
application?

The quick drying epoxies usually do not form as strong a bond, and I
would stay away from them. The strongest epoxy I've found is JB Weld.
Both surfaces to be joined need to have a bit of tooth and must be very
clean.

BTW, don't do it with anything valuable -- use a mechanical
mount that can be removed.

I'll second the comment on the five minute/quick epoxies. Among other
things,
they're not waterproof (think perspiration) over time. My own favorite with
epoxy for jewelry is Hughes "epoxy 330" if you want the cleanest look, with
a
transparent epoxy, or "epoxy 220", which is slightly stronger, but has an
amber
color, not clear. Both set up in about an hour, but can be speeded up by
placing very close to an incandescent light bulb to heat them as they cure.
Then
it's ten minutes. Fine with pearls (don't do this to amber, I suspect...)

As to the not doing this with valuables, well, I'll beg to differ a bit, at
least as it comes to pearls. Epoxies ARE removable. "Attack" solvent takes
the
bonds apart with no damage to parts or gems, SO LONG AS THE GEM CAN
WITHSTAND
THE SOLVENT. Cultured pearls are fine with this. Mabe or other assembled
pearls or things like doublet and triplet gems, are not. Resin gems like
amber
probably are not OK with it either, though I'm not sure.

The other class of glues that are commonly used with pearl posts, by the
way,
are the cyanoacrylates (super glues) Most perform about the same once
cured.
Harder to disassemble, though you usually can do it with accurate
application of
heat to the metal. Super glues require a very close fit between the peg and
the
pearl, or other parts being jointed, to work well. They're not good gap
fillers
(and the gel types that DO fill gaps, are not that strong). Epoxies are
better
with gap filling. And, though you have to mess with mixing, they're neater
to
apply. Super glues have some nasty traps, such as the propensity to leave a
whiteish foggy coating on things if, after you glue the pearl on your
finished
masterpiece, you make the mistake of cleaning it, steaming it, or putting it
in
a ziplock bag too soon after the glue sets.

cheers

Peter

mbstevens wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:40:42 +0000, Snaggeltooth wrote:

What is the best glue to use to join an organic material like pearls to a
sterling silver post?

Epoxies usually require mixing which is something I really don't want to do
unless there is not an alternative adhesive.

Any brand name adhesives you like better than others for the same
application?

The quick drying epoxies usually do not form as strong a bond, and I
would stay away from them. The strongest epoxy I've found is JB Weld.
Both surfaces to be joined need to have a bit of tooth and must be very
clean.

BTW, don't do it with anything valuable -- use a mechanical
mount that can be removed.

I disagree. Pearl cements and epoxies are fine, and CAN easily be removed with
"Attack" for instance.

http://www.ottofrei.com/store/produc...3&cat=0&page=1

And what exactly do you mean with "mechanical mount"? How would you mount a
pearl "mechanically" to a sterling silver post? Would you elaborate a bit
please.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:29:51 +0000, Abrasha wrote:

And what exactly do you mean with "mechanical mount"? How would you mount a
pearl "mechanically" to a sterling silver post? Would you elaborate a bit
please.

I should have excluded pearls; I mount drilled pearls with adhesives
myself. I do believe that _generally_ if you want a permanent mount of
something on a metal surface, a mechanical one is better than an
adhesive one.

"Abrasha" wrote
And what exactly do you mean with "mechanical mount"? How would you mount
a
pearl "mechanically" to a sterling silver post? Would you elaborate a bit
please.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

[I'm surprised you don't know how to do this. Split the post and insert a
small wedge of silver. Push the pearl onto it, driving the wedge into the
split and expanding it in the hole. This results in a "mechanical"
connection that was often used before the advent of modern glues. Of course,
a little epoxy helps too...]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:11:57 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Andrew Werby"
wrote:


"Abrasha" wrote
And what exactly do you mean with "mechanical mount"? How would you mount
a
pearl "mechanically" to a sterling silver post? Would you elaborate a bit
please.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

[I'm surprised you don't know how to do this. Split the post and insert a
small wedge of silver. Push the pearl onto it, driving the wedge into the
split and expanding it in the hole. This results in a "mechanical"
connection that was often used before the advent of modern glues. Of course,
a little epoxy helps too...]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com



And for those unfamilier with this currently seldom done method (though it's
still useful every now and then), the easiest way to split the post is not to.
instead, make it from a folded over piece of half round wire. Then all you need
do is prevent the solder from flowing up into the split when you solder on the
post, which is done simply by spreading the "wings" of the post while soldering.
Close it up again before fitting the wedge and pearl. The pearl or bead or
whatever part needs to be precisly fitted to the post and wedge, regarding the
depth of the drill hole, so the wedge does get pushed into the post spreading
it. This takes care, since if the wedge is too small or the hole too deep, the
fit isn't so tight, and if the hole not quite deep enough or the wedge too big,
the assembly jams tight before the pearl is fully pressed down. And once you
assemble this, it cannot be taken apart again, so you don't get to trial fit it
(at least not with the wedge in place...) And it holds best if you use a drill
or bur to spread out the interior bottom end of the hole (undercut the hole on
the inside), so the peg has something to spread into (the hole is wider inside
than at the outside of the pearl). That way, once fitted, it cannot pull out.
Commonly, even in the old days, some sort of cement was also used, if only to
keep the pearl from being able to spin or wiggle a bit on the end of the post.
Even in the (very) old days, glues sufficient for this task were available.
All in all, though, this is fussy enough to do that I for one am quite grateful
for modern glues. They hold when you want em to, and can be disassembled too,
if you need to do so.

cheers

Peter

Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:11:57 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Andrew Werby"
wrote:


"Abrasha" wrote

And what exactly do you mean with "mechanical mount"? How would you mount
a
pearl "mechanically" to a sterling silver post? Would you elaborate a bit
please.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


[I'm surprised you don't know how to do this. Split the post and insert a
small wedge of silver. Push the pearl onto it, driving the wedge into the
split and expanding it in the hole. This results in a "mechanical"
connection that was often used before the advent of modern glues. Of course,
a little epoxy helps too...]

Andrew Werby
www.unitedartworks.com




And for those unfamilier with this currently seldom done method (though it's
still useful every now and then), the easiest way to split the post is not to.
instead, make it from a folded over piece of half round wire. Then all you need
do is prevent the solder from flowing up into the split when you solder on the
post, which is done simply by spreading the "wings" of the post while soldering.
Close it up again before fitting the wedge and pearl. The pearl or bead or
whatever part needs to be precisly fitted to the post and wedge, regarding the
depth of the drill hole, so the wedge does get pushed into the post spreading
it. This takes care, since if the wedge is too small or the hole too deep, the
fit isn't so tight, and if the hole not quite deep enough or the wedge too big,
the assembly jams tight before the pearl is fully pressed down. And once you
assemble this, it cannot be taken apart again, so you don't get to trial fit it
(at least not with the wedge in place...) And it holds best if you use a drill
or bur to spread out the interior bottom end of the hole (undercut the hole on
the inside), so the peg has something to spread into (the hole is wider inside
than at the outside of the pearl). That way, once fitted, it cannot pull out.
Commonly, even in the old days, some sort of cement was also used, if only to
keep the pearl from being able to spin or wiggle a bit on the end of the post.
Even in the (very) old days, glues sufficient for this task were available.
All in all, though, this is fussy enough to do that I for one am quite grateful
for modern glues. They hold when you want em to, and can be disassembled too,
if you need to do so.

cheers

Peter

Is this called a 'trunnel' as in timber framing/ship building?

Carl


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