Some OT, some not. A little venting, a little beadmaking talk....

Actually, I don't think LDS missionaries are supposed to be out tracting
after
dark either. Definitely creepy.

Yeah, it seemed odd to me too. Their tactics were overzealous. I can see them
going downtown, maybe talking to stray kids on streetcorners, or drug
addicts....but an older woman in a nice neighborhood, walking her dog? I
must've looked way needy somehow! Haw haw!
~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

Thank you. I did want to ask about this. When we move our trailer sometime
next year we will need to put a new porch on. If its all possible Id like
it to have a ramp. Sure would be nice if Mikes friend, Mike, could actually
come into our home. What else can we do to make our home accessible to
someone in a wheelchair? Or.. rather, is there a web site someone would like
to recommend that tells all?
Diana

--
Weird people need beads, too
"Armand Vine" wrote in message
...
They do make folding aluminum ramps for wheel chairs. Mostly used to get
into vans but might work well for a step or 2. I think 3 stepd would make
it
too steep.
For anyone who is interested the standard is one foot per inch of height.
If
your porch is 24" off the ground you need a 24' ramp. This is the
Fed.Gov't
safety standard.

Christina Peterson wrote:
"Bum chums". Isn't that a Canadian expression for a gay couple?

Tina

It's an Australian term as well, if it's used in Canada also.

--
Melinda
http://cust.idl.com.au/athol

I was staying off simply because I have reached my personal limit for public
discussion on my views and beliefs. It doesn't take much for me to reach
that limit these days, and it's no reflection on anyone else's decisions
about posting, or even what the content of said posts may be. My heart and
head is just not in this discussion, at this time.

"Dr. Sooz" wrote in message
...
Say a
male couple decides they would very much like to have a child, or
children.
Would it be possible for a lab to take sperm from both, and mix the two
samples, thersby not allowing any clear picture of exactly what sperm
impregnated the donor egg? Sana a blood test being done after the birth,
this could be a way to say the kid is biologically the spawn of both male
parents. Or is my imagination in over drive? Just letting the mind drift
on this one.

Sure. Use a turkey baster on a friend! :-D

I'm pretty much staying off this thread

But it's okay. I personally don't understand.....Why aren't more of us
comfortable with this sort of discussion? There aren't any flames (except
toward "Steve", of course).
~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character;
business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without
sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

In article , "~Candace~"
writes:

Would it be possible for a lab to take sperm from both, and mix the two
samples, thersby not allowing any clear picture of exactly what sperm
impregnated the donor egg?

Depends on the... specific genetically determined characteristics... of each
donor. If one was a pale, blue eyed blond, and the other a "man of color", I'd
think it would be possible to tell which was the bioogical father of the child.
Kaytee
"Simplexities" on
www.eclecticbeadery.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/simplexities/

There's a different thing as well. Just as there's a difference between
auditing a course for the joy of learning and taking the course for credit.
Different to the school, but also different to the learner. Because there
simply is a different level of required commitment and expectation. Even
though it's possible to have the same level of commitment without it.

Tina


"Karen_AZ" wrote in message
news:QNrjd.48894$G15.48841@fed1read03...
I agree that t he license doesn't have much to do with it. The legal
recognition is essentially a social encouragement; it makes the spouse
the legal next-of-kin, which is a very important recognition.

Definitely! I admit, I have a skewed view of marriage due to a variety of
circumstances. My parents stayed married til the day my Dad died, but I
was
acutely aware growing up that staying together wasn't out of undying love.
For a long time they just moved around each other, instead of together. My
aunt, OTOH, was "shacked up" with a long-time lover for over 20 years, and
I
think I learned about passion and devotion from them more than anyone else
in my life. He was married but separated because his wife wouldn't "give"
him a divorce. I felt so sad when "no fault" divorce came into being,
three
years after Tom died.

I adore Mike, he's more important and wonderful and beloved than I can
express. But what our relationship IS can't be validated by some JP we
don't
even know. (We're not churchy religious, so there's no affiliation.) I've
honestly evaded and avoided getting married, which has exasperated Mike to
no end. He finally sat me down and laid out the legalities, and what we
would have to do to make the important things valid without getting
married.
And it's a lot more than "next of kin" in the real world, though that
largely sums it up. And I've seen the complications firsthand, through
losing several dear, gay friends in my NYC days. The resultant legal mess
when an unmarried partner dies is unbelievable.

Mike finally summed it up in one way. He reminded me of our age difference
(21 years), and gave me a scenario...he goes into the hospital ailing and
incoherent. I know what he wants and needs to be done. Do I want to spend
time showing papers and filling out forms, or do I just want to say "I"m
his
wife" and do what needs to be done, plain and simple? Harsh reality, but
he's right. And (dragging a little politics into this), it breaks my heart
that my/our friends who are same-sex couples cannot have that same "ease"
in
a time of mind-bending crisis.

So, much as I enjoy "living in sin" I guess at some point before this
house
is done and other things get sorted out, I'll be getting married again.
LOL
So it goes.

KarenK

That's awful!!! I would have called a TV news station, actually. I
personally get very tired of the notion that people peddling their religion
have the right to harrass people like that. Now that we live in the
boonies, I don't encounter that type of thing anymore, but when we lived in
Portland, we got missionaries and others like them from several churches
coming to the door and approaching us on the street. It's a violation of
privacy. And these guys were way over the line approaching you at night
like that. They need to be called attention to.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net


....and books are burned in big piles. Stick in a stake, and you can
roast a
witch at the same time.

Last night, around 10 pm, I was walking Mercury about 2 blocks from our
house.
Two young men cornered me. I was scared, even though I had Merc with me,
because let's face it -- he's old and sore and stiff, and not that much of
a
threat anymore. They had suits, and nametags, and they cheerily said they
were
missionaries. Maybe they were -- I don't care. It was scary.

I told them they had the wrong person and walked away as fast as I could
get
around them. It was frightening. There was no one else in sight, or
screaming
distance, as far as I could tell. They FOLLOWED me, loudly saying "Oh,
COME
ON!"

I turned around and said, "If you continue to follow me, I will scream as
loud
as I can. You're two guys, I'm an older woman, alone, after dark. You
need to
GO AWAY NOW." I turned and walked as fast as I could away from them.
They
were saying things like "Enjoy walking your DOG," and proving to me They
Were
Nice Boys.

I shook all the way home. Things like this have been happening since the
election, and it's not nice. It's scary as hell.
~~
Sooz
The things that will destroy us a politics without principle; pleasure
without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character;
business
without morality; science without humanity, and worship without
sacrifice. - M.
Ghandi

It would be possible to not know which sperm fertilized the egg
without doing a blood test, but that would be a moot point because in
the case of artifical insemination using a host mother, which is the
only way the above scario could be played out, the gay couple would both
legally adopt the progeny.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay

~Candace~ wrote:
"Kalera Stratton" wrote in message
...
Snippity:

Worse, and unfortunately not as uncommon as the above scenario; a gay
couple has kids; one of the couple is the biological parent and the other
is not. The non-biological parent cannot legally adopt the kids because
the other biological parent is still around and involved. You can probably
imagine what happens if the biological parent in the gay couple dies.

-Kalera
http://www.beadwife.com
http://www.snipurl.com/kebay



I'm pretty much staying off this thread, but this made me wonder. Say a
male couple decides they would very much like to have a child, or children.
Would it be possible for a lab to take sperm from both, and mix the two
samples, thersby not allowing any clear picture of exactly what sperm
impregnated the donor egg? Sana a blood test being done after the birth,
this could be a way to say the kid is biologically the spawn of both male
parents. Or is my imagination in over drive? Just letting the mind drift
on this one.

The Mormons are very aggressive. I can say that because I lived in that
environment almost my whole life. A lot of my ancestors are Mormon, and
there are Mormons on all sides of my family. My immediate family is not
Mormon now, but they used to be. I do like several things about their
religion, but the thing I dislike the most is their aggressive "recruiting"
tactics. They are much more aggressive than the Jehovah's Witnesses who
pass around their magazines (which can be very enlightening, actually). The
JW's I have encountered are usually very nice and walk away right away if
you say no. Mormons don't - they really want to talk to you and will push
you until you get mad.

Around here, we just get a lot of flyers and junk mail from churches, but
that's to be expected in a rural area, I suppose.

I have nothing against any religion - just so long as they leave me out of
it.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Last night, around 10 pm, I was walking Mercury about 2 blocks from our
house.
Two young men cornered me. I was scared, even though I had Merc with me,
because let's face it -- he's old and sore and stiff, and not that much of
a
threat anymore. They had suits, and nametags, and they cheerily said they
were
missionaries. Maybe they were -- I don't care. It was scary.

We have BUNCHES of Mormon missionaries around here, younger guys who
travel in pairs. Not to dis Mormons in general, and MOST of the
"missionary biker boys" are very polite around here, but some CAN be very
insistent. I understand their doctrine of witnessing thing (I grew up in
an evangelical-thinking church) but sometimes it can be downright creepy.
And like so many other things (thinking of the recent telemarketer threads
on here) I think taking the first "no" for a final answer would be a much
better idea and probably cause a lot fewer hard feelings. Their whole
mission thing is a very tough proposition, no matter how they do it.

Specifically for you, though, Sooz, I think their timing left a LOT to be
desired.

KarenK

Oh, but they do. All the time. At least they did where I used to live.

--
Kandice Seeber
Air & Earth Designs
http://www.lampwork.net

Specifically for you, though, Sooz, I think their timing left a LOT to be
desired.

Actually, I don't think LDS missionaries are supposed to be out tracting
after
dark either. Definitely creepy.



Carol in SLC
Some of my stuff: http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/peace.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/elissa.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/oceansprite.jpg
http://members.aol.com/carolinslc/jarvis.jpg