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Use of extremely fine drawplate
Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time
and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire? Thanks, Fred |
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#2
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:47:18 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Fred Zweig
wrote: Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire? Thanks, Fred Don't neglect annealing as needed. That will considerably reduce breaking problems. With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a coil is with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather than trying to do it with a torch. Set the temp at around 900 or so, and after firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. gives a very even and good anneal. Putting a decent point on the wire so you can grab it can be tricky. If fine sanding disks in a flex shaft don't do it for you, sometimes you can simply anneal and then stretch a short section till it breaks, which reduces the diameter a little in the stretched area. With some drawplates, this is enough. Some wire can be acid eched at the end to reduce the diameter, or electroetched/electrostripped, for the same result. If doing it with a sanding disk etc, it seems easier to me to point it before annealing it. Grabbing the end to pull it. Drawtongs of course are out for wire this fine. Just a lightly sanded texture on the inside of flat jawed pliers is usually enough to grab the wire sufficiently. Serrated jaws are too much, sometimes cutting the wire. If the pliers you've got tend to slip too much, hammer lightly directly down on the ends of the plier jaws. Creates a slight lip at the edge. Careful: Too much makes them cut the wire. Same lubes for the drawplate as you'd usually use. For very fine wire, I prefer liquid or paste "Bur life". More solid lubes like beeswax clog the holes and it's harder to poke a sharpened very fine wire point through thicker lubes. Hope this helps. Peter |
#3
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
On Nov 13, 10:43=A0pm, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:47:18 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Fred Zweig Don't neglect annealing as needed. =A0That will considerably reduce break= ing problems. =A0With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a = coil is with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather th= an trying to do it with a torch. =A0Set the temp at around 900 or so, and af= ter firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. =A0give= s a very even and good anneal. =A0 Putting a decent point on the wire so you can grab it can be tricky. =A0I= f fine sanding disks in a flex shaft don't do it for you, sometimes you can simp= ly anneal and then stretch a short section till it breaks, which reduces the diameter a little in the stretched area. =A0With some drawplates, this is= enough. Some wire can be acid eched at the end to reduce the diameter, or electroetched/electrostripped, for the same result. =A0If doing it with a= sanding disk etc, it seems easier to me to point it before annealing it. Grabbing the end to pull it. =A0Drawtongs of course are out for wire this= fine. Just a lightly sanded texture on the inside of flat jawed pliers is usual= ly enough to grab the wire sufficiently. =A0Serrated jaws are too much, some= times cutting the wire. =A0 If the pliers you've got tend to slip too much, ham= mer lightly directly down on the ends of the plier jaws. =A0Creates a slight = lip at the edge. =A0Careful: =A0Too much makes them cut the wire. Same lubes for the drawplate as you'd usually use. =A0For very fine wire,= I prefer liquid or paste "Bur life". =A0More solid lubes like beeswax clog the hol= es and it's harder to poke a sharpened very fine wire point through thicker lube= s. =A0 Hope this helps. Peter Peter, Those are just the tips I needed. All make sense and I will make attempts to draw the wire this comming week. I may not need to draw the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to adequate dimensions with you handy advice. Many thanks, Fred |
#4
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
Fred Zweig wrote:
.....snip I may not need to draw the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to adequate dimensions with you handy advice. Many thanks, Fred Fred, just for interest, what is the diameter (in mm or inches - I don't understand gauges) you want? -- Regards, Gary Wooding (To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address) |
#5
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
On Nov 16, 11:32=EF=BF=BDam, lemelman wrote:
Fred Zweig wrote: ....snip I may not need to draw the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to adequate dimensions with you handy advice. Many thanks, Fred Fred, just for interest, what is the diameter (in mm or inches - I don't understand gauges) you want? -- Regards, Gary Wooding (To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address) Gary, I will be attempting to do some very fine zogan work (Japanese damascene) in iron and the wire needs to be much thinner than a single strand of lamp cord wire. I am not certain what the thickness would be in millimeters. I have seen the rolls used in the Japanese work and it appears not much thicker than sewing thread. Best, Fred |
#6
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
Need gold or Silver? I've got about 2 pounds of 32 Ga Fine Ag in my drawer.
About 0.203 mm. dia. -- Don Thompson Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once, and that makes me an expert. " There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance. ~Goethe It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom; it is another sight finer to fight for another man's. ~Mark Twain "Fred Zweig" wrote in message ... On Nov 16, 11:32=EF=BF=BDam, lemelman wrote: Fred Zweig wrote: ....snip I may not need to draw the wire to the smallest hole on the plate since I intend to use the wire for damascene work known as zogan by the japanese. The wire used in this work is extremely fine and I suspect I can get my wire down to adequate dimensions with you handy advice. Many thanks, Fred Fred, just for interest, what is the diameter (in mm or inches - I don't understand gauges) you want? -- Regards, Gary Wooding (To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address) Gary, I will be attempting to do some very fine zogan work (Japanese damascene) in iron and the wire needs to be much thinner than a single strand of lamp cord wire. I am not certain what the thickness would be in millimeters. I have seen the rolls used in the Japanese work and it appears not much thicker than sewing thread. Best, Fred |
#7
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
Don,
I too have that gauge in fine silver and I need a bit thinner. The gold makes the greatest contrast against the blackened iron. Thanks, Fred |
#8
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
Fred Zweig wrote:
Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire? Thanks, Fred The trick with wire this soft and this thin, is to never anneal. Just draw until you reach the desired diameter. I use a lot of 24K gold wire (for rivets), and I used to have the wire break on me all the time. Until I stopped annealing the wire. Never broke again. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#9
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:47:18 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Fred Zweig wrote: Good morning everyone. I have used a great many drawplates in my time and have recently acquired one that draws down to an extremely fine diameter. I need a loupe to see the last few holes in the plate. Are there any tricks to draw down wire this thin? I will be using 22k-24k gold and fine silver. I am expecting to have difficulties keeping the wire from breaking and even feeding it into the smaller holes of the plate. Anyone have experience drawing very fine wire? Thanks, Fred Don't neglect annealing as needed. That will considerably reduce breaking problems. With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a coil is with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather than trying to do it with a torch. Set the temp at around 900 or so, and after firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. gives a very even and good anneal. Absolutely wrong advice for 22-24k wire! Never anneal at any time after the wire is around 1.5 mm square from the wire rolling mill. No annealing ever! the wire will only stretch and break. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#10
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Use of extremely fine drawplate
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:52:13 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote: Don't neglect annealing as needed. That will considerably reduce breaking problems. With very fine wire, the easiest way I've found to anneal a coil is with a small kiln or one of the small beehive enamelling ovens, rather than trying to do it with a torch. Set the temp at around 900 or so, and after firecoating the coil, put it in there for ten or fifteen minutes. gives a very even and good anneal. Absolutely wrong advice for 22-24k wire! Never anneal at any time after the wire is around 1.5 mm square from the wire rolling mill. No annealing ever! the wire will only stretch and break. You're right, of course, Abrasha. I'd neglected to consider the high karat quality he's drawing. My advice does work, though, for 14K, or white golds, and I find annealing is still helpful for 18K yellow gold, though I don't always do so, resulting in a wire coil that, by the time I've got it down to about .2 mm (I use it for laser welding), is so springy that if I don't then anneal it, I'll have trouble with it always trying to turn itself into a tangled mess. But I don't absolutely have to anneal it to get it down that far. And with platinum, I anneal it off the wire rolling mill before starting to draw it down, but not again, or it, like fine gold, breaks more easily. And one addendum to the annealing method. Before continuing to draw down after annealing, one of course needs to repoint the wire end. Rather than just sanding or filing a point on the annealed wire, I taper it in one direction (flattening the end) with a hammer. Then trim that to the point. The resulting partially work hardened point won't break off as easily in your pliers. Cheers Peter |
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