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#1
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
Hi all.
This is probably my first post here. I recognize a few names here from elsewhere. I have a question that many of you know at least some answers to. I am ready to buy a torch, hotter than my butane one at home. I have had the opportunity to solder at the Crucible in Oakland CA where I just finished a general Intro to Jewelry course. They had propane- oxygen and it worked well. I don't need more heat than that for a long time. I plan to use it for annealing, butt-joints, sweat-soldering Argentium and other (copper?), granulation of Argentium, fine silver, gold, and other similar soldering, fusing and working operations. I am now a chainmailler but that skill is just a backbone to the rest of the metal arts I am learning and plan to use. So that means some small work fusing or soldering Argentium jump rings. I use a lot of Arg. My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porchnow closed and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and oxygen. I have the Rio catalog and I see the Smith Little Torch a la carte and set stuff. All I need is the whole setup (haha) (not a holder, don't think I need a gauge, just regulator) and am on a budget but not to the detriment of what is reasonable. Contenti has a torch setup that could work with Prop-ox-- I heard this second-hand from someone. My question is, what is/are good source(s) for a new torch and what to avoid? My husband is very handy and will build a simple strapping device for the tanks. Thanks in advance for all replies. |
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#2
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:15:22 +0000, C0nnie wrote:
My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porch now closed and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and oxygen. I see mapp/oxygen setups in disposable size, but do not recommend them. Even for small work, you will find yourself running out of gas at inconvenient times. For propane, I recommend the size tank that you can trade out at the supermarket. The local welding supplier can deliver oxygen tanks. 80 Cu. Ft. or so is a reasonable size. Since they stand, they are really not going to take up _that_ much more room. I have the Rio catalog and I see the Smith Little Torch a la carte Those are very good. and set stuff. All I need is the whole setup (haha) (not a holder, don't think I need a gauge, just regulator) You might want to get the propane hose, too; they are not always easy to find locally, and acetylene hoses are not for propane. and am on a budget but not to the detriment of what is reasonable. Contenti has a torch setup that could work with Prop-ox-- I heard this second-hand from someone. My question is, what is/are good source(s) for a new torch and what to avoid? I've been very happy with a propane torch with blowpipe I got from them. With oxypropane, be sure the tips are small enough for your smallest work. My husband is very handy and will build a simple strapping device for the tanks. Thanks in advance for all replies. Make it sturdy. You do not want a tank with a regulator on it to fall over. Old welders have horror stories. -- mbstevens http://www.mbstevens.com/ |
#3
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
On Mar 7, 6:49 am, mbstevens wrote:
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:15:22 +0000, C0nnie wrote: My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porch now closed and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and oxygen. I see mapp/oxygen setups in disposable size, but do not recommend them. Even for small work, you will find yourself running out of gas at inconvenient times. For propane, I recommend the size tank that you can trade out at the supermarket. The local welding supplier can deliver oxygen tanks. 80 Cu. Ft. or so is a reasonable size. Since they stand, they are really not going to take up _that_ much more room. I have the Rio catalog and I see the Smith Little Torch a la carte Those are very good. and set stuff. All I need is the whole setup (haha) (not a holder, don't think I need a gauge, just regulator) You might want to get the propane hose, too; they are not always easy to find locally, and acetylene hoses are not for propane. and am on a budget but not to the detriment of what is reasonable. Contenti has a torch setup that could work with Prop-ox-- I heard this second-hand from someone. My question is, what is/are good source(s) for a new torch and what to avoid? I've been very happy with a propane torch with blowpipe I got from them. With oxypropane, be sure the tips are small enough for your smallest work. My husband is very handy and will build a simple strapping device for the tanks. Thanks in advance for all replies. Make it sturdy. You do not want a tank with a regulator on it to fall over. Old welders have horror stories. -- mbstevenshttp://www.mbstevens.com/ mbpstevens, Thank you for your specific advice. I will re-think the size of propane tank. We already trade out 2 big propane tanks, one for the barbecue and one for a propane heater. Contenti seems to be a good economy supplier. I will also consider getting the holder for the whole system. Is there such a thing as a regulator w/o a gauge? Maybe a gauge is a good thing. I'm considering getting Rio's video DVD all about soldering. It says it's 90 mins and goes thru selection of equipment, safety tips and setup of the soldering area. In it, a box ring is fabricated. Connie |
#4
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 02:43:33 +0000, C0nnie wrote:
Contenti seems to be a good economy supplier. I will also consider getting the holder for the whole system. Is there such a thing as a regulator w/o a gauge? Yes, I have a heater with one -- not for jewelry torches, though. Maybe a gauge is a good thing. Oh, yes. I enjoy tuning my system for each task. Generally, smaller tip openings require less pressure. Too high pressure makes the gas move through so fast that it will not stay lit. Too low pressure in a large tip opening will not give enough heat and could result in flashbacks. A fixed pressure regulator will not do the job, and you want to be able to read the pressure you are using. I'm considering getting Rio's video DVD all about soldering. It says it's 90 mins and goes thru selection of equipment, safety tips and setup of the soldering area. In it, a box ring is fabricated. I have not seen it. But it seems like a good idea, if nothing else, to actually see a torch being adjusted. Although quite easy to see with oxy/acetylene torches, with oxy/propane it is not quite so clear where the sweet spot of a neutral flame is between oxidizing and reducing flames. There are also all sorts of little safety tricks that are worth knowing. I had a class in metal sculpture once where the instructor didn't know all of these. People in the class would do things like stand in front of oxygen regulators when opening the tank valve. A safety video is not a bad idea. |
#5
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
"C0nnie" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 6:49 am, mbstevens wrote: On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:15:22 +0000, C0nnie wrote: My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porch now closed and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and oxygen. I see mapp/oxygen setups in disposable size, but do not recommend them. Even for small work, you will find yourself running out of gas at inconvenient times. [snip] Novice here but have had success for small castings (up to 1ozt) using the MAPP/Oxy combo from Home Depot at $49.99. The tip works for what I'm doing but for soldering maybe picking up some smaller ones from Contenti would suffice. As MBStevens says, you can run out Oxy quickly (the MAPP gas lasts quite a while). On my first 1 oz 999 silver melt I blew an entire Ox tank! LOL...I quickly learned that holding the flame tip in the same room as the silver helps =). Now I can cast 10 to 14 times on a single Ox tank with multiples of that on the MAPP. Not cost effective for the long haul but definitely a short term workable solution. HTH - Ben |
#6
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
mbstevens wrote:
I had a class in metal sculpture once where the instructor didn't know all of these. People in the class would do things like stand in front of oxygen regulators when opening the tank valve. A safety video is not a bad idea. Wow, I didn't think of that- maybe there is something important I didn't learn in class. I just finished a class and took the opportunity to practice using the propane-oxygen. There was a lot of adjusting and then I got more used to it. At first, I opened with too much propane, then too little propane and when I turned on the oxygen, the flame went out. Ben wrote: As MBStevens says, you can run out Oxy quickly (the MAPP gas lasts quite a while). So does that mean that MAPP/oxy is more disproportionate than propane, or does oxygen usually run out faster on all gas-oxygen systems? I am starting to understand why so many people have multiple torches. Like having 2 printers, one with expensive ink... All my research is leaning me more and more toward getting the whole Smith Little torch from Rio Grande. It's a lot of money in one place though. I am in Calif so, unlike Contenti, they're not all the way across the country. They are good with support and the kit seems to have everything in it. Contenti is wonderful but seems more like a do- it-yourself operation. I am going this morning to consign a few pieces with a local jewelry shop (fabulous original designer, I am so thrilled to have my work in with his pieces). I will hit him up for even more torch wisdom. I am so happy to have found this forum. I am really learning a lot from reading here. -Connie |
#7
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:10:08 +0000, C0nnie wrote:
I had one of those little mapp/oxy systems and still own the regulator. They only cast very small amounts of metal. The oxygen did run out faster. I usually cast at least a three ounces of metal at a time, and it it wouldn't even handle that much. So does that mean that MAPP/oxy is more disproportionate than propane, or does oxygen usually run out faster on all gas-oxygen systems? Oxy tanks are usually a bit larger and under much higher pressure when delivered -- around 2000 psi. Propane can be delivered as a pressurized liquid, making it easier to package more of it in smaller containers. All my research is leaning me more and more toward getting the whole Smith Little torch They are just great. I use mine with oxy/acetylene for casting, fusing, and even firing an occasional small enamel from a distance. As for Smith Little Torch: In your regulator you run fuel and oxygen at about the same pressure, if you are using a neutral flame. Larger heating tips use more fuel. For soldering, annealing, and firing enamels I usually use a European propane torch that comes with an extra hose to blow through; this extra air adds a bit of extra heat and shapes the flame. If you are not casting, you might want to just start with one of those from Contenti. They are really very flexible, and you might never have to bother with oxygen. Just pick up your propane refills when you go to the supermarket. |
#8
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
On Mar 9, 7:29 pm, mbstevens wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:10:08 +0000, C0nnie wrote: I had one of those little mapp/oxy systems and still own the regulator. They only cast very small amounts of metal. The oxygen did run out faster. I usually cast at least a three ounces of metal at a time, and it it wouldn't even handle that much. So does that mean that MAPP/oxy is more disproportionate than propane, or does oxygen usually run out faster on all gas-oxygen systems? Oxy tanks are usually a bit larger and under much higher pressure when delivered -- around 2000 psi. Propane can be delivered as a pressurized liquid, making it easier to package more of it in smaller containers. All my research is leaning me more and more toward getting the whole Smith Little torch They are just great. I use mine with oxy/acetylene for casting, fusing, and even firing an occasional small enamel from a distance. As for Smith Little Torch: In your regulator you run fuel and oxygen at about the same pressure, if you are using a neutral flame. Larger heating tips use more fuel. For soldering, annealing, and firing enamels I usually use a European propane torch that comes with an extra hose to blow through; this extra air adds a bit of extra heat and shapes the flame. If you are not casting, you might want to just start with one of those from Contenti. They are really very flexible, and you might never have to bother with oxygen. Just pick up your propane refills when you go to the supermarket. Aha. Well I hit the mother lode today that corresponds with all of your advice. Went to visit my fave goldsmith and he showed me his Meco Midget and why he likes it (bigger output/ more versatile than Smith Little). Then went to the local welders supply and coincidentally the Smith rep was there. I told him about the Midget and he showed me the Smith Quickbraze. (see http://www.smithequipment.com/produc...z/quickbrz.htm ) What a nice lil gadget with kevlar covering the hoses. Bigger than the Little torch, but still quite petite. Comes with 4 tips, one is a dual flame, looks like a horseshoe, one is the typical small aperture of jewelers, one is a rosette. One tip is on a long copper tube extending it beyond or between something awkward- this is for heating and ac guys. Still, the setup meets and exceeds all my needs for years to come. I plan to get it Monday. With the oxygen regulator H1940G-540 and a single-stage propane regulator, it will total out to about $360. |
#9
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:29:07 +0000, C0nnie wrote:
Comes with 4 tips, one is a dual flame, looks like a horseshoe, one is the typical small aperture of jewelers, one is a rosette. One tip is on a long copper tube extending it beyond or between something awkward- this is for heating and ac guys. I wonder how often a jeweler will use the horseshoe. Do you do a lot of tubing attachments? I'd beef it up by buying some extra normal tips in so you have graded sizes. I like the idea of the kevlar on the hose. |
#10
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Buying a prop-ox torch setup
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:00:26 GMT in rec.crafts.jewelry mbstevens
, intended to write something intelligible, but instead wrote : On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:29:07 +0000, C0nnie wrote: Comes with 4 tips, one is a dual flame, looks like a horseshoe, one is the typical small aperture of jewelers, one is a rosette. One tip is on a long copper tube extending it beyond or between something awkward- this is for heating and ac guys. I wonder how often a jeweler will use the horseshoe. Do you do a lot of tubing attachments? I'd beef it up by buying some extra normal tips in so you have graded sizes. I like the idea of the kevlar on the hose. FWIW, I have the little torch (Smith?) and use Oxy/ace. I have one tip and it's been on there for about 15 years. I have a bit of a larger torch for larger jobs and a HUGE combo welding torch/cutting torch (changable tips) for large reduction. I got tired of swapping out tanks so often and got the really tall tanks that I need a hand truck thing with a chain to tote it around. I also have too many check valves on all my lines and use quick release fittings. For your reading pleasu http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...ane-explosions -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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