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#11
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"Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message ... On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:39:02 GMT, m wrote: I do not understand the brough-ha-ha about spoon rings. Most of them are tacky and crude and can be found at garage sales and junk shops ---- so was this just an opportunity for some of us to sound off ????? |
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#12
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I am an attorney nothing like having a government protected monopoly(unlike jewelers) who bills more an hour as an attorney than he does as a jeweler, and though I am not required to , I continue to do pro bono work, because sometimes, people just need a favor...just need some help...can't afford, can't do, WHATever. more likely, you feel guilty because you often do not give good value. You all need to stop thinking that the world begins and ends with ourselves, and sometimes, stop being legends in our own minds. I refer you to the first 4 words at the top. Why did you think what you do for a living was pertinent? I think WE know the answer to that. Carl 1 Lucky Texan |
#13
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lgreene wrote:
Your suggestions will not be taken. My missive is not a mistake, but evidently being on this group is. You are not on this group! You have never participated, you have never posted here, before this post. I on the other hand have been participating and getting my hands dirty in this news group since at least April 7, 1996. But I don't think that getting your hands dirty is something you would know about. You have the gall to email me your bile, and hide behind a fake email address, so I cannot even return the mail to you. And you have the unmitigated audacity to lecture me on how I should run my business. You are a slimy worm. And a common street hustling coward. Actually a street hustler has more style than you have. Some lawyer you are. Most lawyers I know, at least have some rudimentary manners. Since Peter won't allow me to get into a real flame war, which in this case I would really enjoy, I will leave it at this. This is an instance where I wished this newsgroup were not moderated, you sheister. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com PS. Peter, Please post this, because he won't allow me to address him directly in private email, by hiding behind a fake email address! And he has attacked me personally in this forum, without any provocation. |
#14
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hey joey,
i guess it takes one person with an attitude to direct every one's attention away from the initial request. however i can't blame the guy for it must have been a real rough christmas season for him. you should ask him for an estimate of the total cost anyway. if the price is right ,i may have him fed-ex me some chinese delight from my favorite store in china town. here is my suggestion: post that picture here and let us see what kind of a spoon it was. there are similar street artists here in venice beach (in los angeles) who may have what you are looking for. if you are not in a big rush, i may be able to do something for you by valentines day. that may be a good time to surprise her with it. good luck to both of us, ken. |
#15
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Marilee J. Layman wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:39:02 GMT, m wrote: J. Fehrenbach wrote: ...... was actually made from the "bowl" portion of the spoon to make a really wide full-digit ring. Interesting. Along the same vane, did anyone see the ring Angelina Jolie wore in "Hackers"? The thing spanned a joint, and had a hinge so that she could still bend her finger. Kind of like one-finger armor. Cyberpunk aesthetic of the '90s as interpreted by moviemakers. The movie so severely insulted hackers that the movie's site was actually cracked-into and defaced. These are more goth than cyberpunk. They're widely available on the web -- here, for instance (no relationship to the seller, just the first thing that came up on Google): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2880518682 Actually the ring in this page is quite different, all filligree and frou-frou, and it doesn't cover the bottom of the finger. The one in she wore was actually like a tiny piece of armor, with an armor joint at the knuckle, complete coverage around the finger, and no filligree. Couldn't get a very good image, but... http://www.mbstevens.com/A/ring.jpg ....should give the idea. -- cheers, m |
#16
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#17
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How does someone get called a slimy worm in a "moderated" news group???
Its OK to have friends, but its not OK to play favorites. I dont think you would let me call someone a worm, even a lawyer Les [Peter's reply] Every time I allow this sort of thing to start, as I did with the initial post from "lgreene", it ends up escalating, and I end up feeling like I've stepped in something nasty that I didn't see coming in time. In this case, Mr. Greene (?) does use a munged reply address, and Abrasha specifically asked, in his post, for an exception so that he could answer an email he says he got from the fellow in private, which was, he says, more vitriolic than what Mr. greene sent to the group. Probably against my better judgement, I allowed it on the thought that letting Abrasha reply seemed somehow fair. But you're completely right that Abrasha's post does directly attack Mr. green at a level that's not normally allowed in this group. I DO try not to play favorites. Whether you believe it or not. I only very rarely have to actually reject a post on these grounds, and really don't like the option of approving a post only after editing out objectionable parts. That's not my job, nor proper. Sometimes the right call is hard to find, and in this case, I'm still not sure what the right point to have put a stop to this would have been, if it even is here yet. Abrasha clearly knows, and states that he knows, that flame wars aren't allowed, and has limited his reply compared to what he might have done, and for me, the fact that he states in his post that he's trying to stay within what he feels should be the limits does count for brownie points here. I would have muchly preferred if he'd taken the moral high ground and refrained from insults. It would have made my job easier. On the other hand, when you think of it, the underlying issues ARE interesting. What do we need to charge for, when should we do favors for free, and that stuff are issues we all deal with. If we do lots and lots of favors and give away our time for too little, as some of us may do, we'll feel good all the way into bankrupcy court. If we're really hard lined about it, we'll end up feeling, and looking to others, like Mr. Scrooge himself. I would like to point out a couple side thoughts on this thread, apart from my role as moderator, that make it, for me, worthy of discussion. One is the comparison (my fault, I'm afraid) between pro bono work by lawyers vs freebies by jewelers. The work that many lawyers do on a pro bono basis is work that people often desperately need done, and deserve to have done. Legal matters of importance, that they simply cannot afford to pay for at normal rates. Add to this that the normal going rate for legal work is considerably higher than what an average bench jeweler makes. I suspect that most lawyers take home a lot more per year than most jewelers, and may have more room in their budgets, if not in their schedules, for a bit of pro bono work for people who really need the help. In the case of jewelery, it may be important too, to remember that jewelery is a luxury. While lots of people want it and like it, it's not vital to anyone's life (except jewelers). When we're giving away a free favor, we're doing something nice, but not something essential to the recipient in most cases. Plus, I've often noted that people value their jewelery, or jewelry work, according to what they pay for it, not what they should have paid. When you give them a freebie, they thank you but in their minds, the value of what you just did is then assumed to be trivial. If it's a good thing that people should value their jewelery at it's real value, freebies may not always be doing them a favor. So the issues of what should be free, whether gaining good karma with customers has real value, and the like, is worthy of discussion. Common sense says "take care of your customers and they'll take care of you.". But what about freebies for people you've never seen, in another city, who have neve before been customers and are not likely to be so again? Should one's first interaction with such a customer be a freebie? Hmm. Then again, remember that J. Fehrenbach's first post clearly stated he was quite willing to pay someone to make this, and presumably, to locate one if needed. He didn't imply either poverty, or the need for a financial favor. And Abrashas reply simply stated "mutually agreeable fee". That might have been negotiated to a free cup of coffee the next time Mr. Fehrenbach was in town, or it might have been a couple hundred dollars. If it was to be mutually agreed, then presumably Mr. Fehrenbach was going to be satisfied and happy with the arrangement. Remember, again, that while this sort of request is a nice thing he wanted to do and was eager to do, nobody's life or welfare rested on it's success. If his girlfriend got a replacement ring for a total cost of five bucks, then perhaps she'd only put five bucks worth of care into making sure the next one didn't also get flushed down a toilet. Who knows. We don't. We really don't know, from either posting, what might have happened, or what might still happen in this deal. We know only that a request was made, and that Abrasha offered to help solve it, as a member of the jewelry profession. I really really really don't think this deserved to escalate into this big fight, beginning with Mr. Greene's civil, but disapproving post. Well, I'm getting long winded. Or actually, just getting my fingers to wake up (grin). Please folks. Lets try to keep it civil. You can disagree, discuss, debate, the issues all you like. No more name calling, OK? Do it as a freebie favor to me, so I don't have to deal with other posters wondering whether I'm playing favorites. And a final thought. If you choose to take such conversations to private email, as I encourage you to do if you're choosing to go in directions not appropriate to this group, then for heavens sake have the common sense to include your proper return address. Not to do so makes even a well written and thought out email little more than SPAM, and justifies more than a little frustration and anger on the part of the recipient. Peter Rowe |
#18
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I didn't intend this to become an argument. Sorry guys! Just wanted to make
my girl smile. I would have been perfectly fine with working out some sort of monetary agreement for Abrasha's time and effort. I understood from the beginning that he'd be taking time out from his schedule to find this spoon ring maker and I was totally happy that he would be willing to go through this for me. Anyway, I actually have been contacted recently by a couple jewelry makers who believe they can successfully duplicate the design for a decent price, so I don't believe you need to go to the effort of finding the guy now, Abrasha. I really do appreciate your volunteering to find him for me though. Thanks! Joe "Abrasha" wrote in message news lgreene wrote: Your suggestions will not be taken. My missive is not a mistake, but evidently being on this group is. You are not on this group! You have never participated, you have never posted here, before this post. I on the other hand have been participating and getting my hands dirty in this news group since at least April 7, 1996. But I don't think that getting your hands dirty is something you would know about. You have the gall to email me your bile, and hide behind a fake email address, so I cannot even return the mail to you. And you have the unmitigated audacity to lecture me on how I should run my business. You are a slimy worm. And a common street hustling coward. Actually a street hustler has more style than you have. Some lawyer you are. Most lawyers I know, at least have some rudimentary manners. Since Peter won't allow me to get into a real flame war, which in this case I would really enjoy, I will leave it at this. This is an instance where I wished this newsgroup were not moderated, you sheister. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com PS. Peter, Please post this, because he won't allow me to address him directly in private email, by hiding behind a fake email address! And he has attacked me personally in this forum, without any provocation. |
#19
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:38:57 GMT, Marion Margoshes
wrote: "Marilee J. Layman" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:39:02 GMT, m wrote: I do not understand the brough-ha-ha about spoon rings. Most of them are tacky and crude and can be found at garage sales and junk shops ---- so was this just an opportunity for some of us to sound off ????? I didn't say anything in this message. If you cut the text, cut the attributions. (And we were no longer talking about spoon rings.) -- Marilee J. Layman |
#20
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:39:13 GMT, m
wrote: Marilee J. Layman wrote: On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 08:39:02 GMT, m wrote: J. Fehrenbach wrote: ...... was actually made from the "bowl" portion of the spoon to make a really wide full-digit ring. Interesting. Along the same vane, did anyone see the ring Angelina Jolie wore in "Hackers"? The thing spanned a joint, and had a hinge so that she could still bend her finger. Kind of like one-finger armor. Cyberpunk aesthetic of the '90s as interpreted by moviemakers. The movie so severely insulted hackers that the movie's site was actually cracked-into and defaced. These are more goth than cyberpunk. They're widely available on the web -- here, for instance (no relationship to the seller, just the first thing that came up on Google): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2880518682 Actually the ring in this page is quite different, all filligree and frou-frou, and it doesn't cover the bottom of the finger. The one in she wore was actually like a tiny piece of armor, with an armor joint at the knuckle, complete coverage around the finger, and no filligree. Couldn't get a very good image, but... http://www.mbstevens.com/A/ring.jpg ...should give the idea. That's the same kind of ring, just a different style. The TV show Witchblade had similar hand-armor. -- Marilee J. Layman |
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