Window reinforcement

I've seen rigid metal reinforcement bars stretching across big
windows. I've never used them but I know they are necessary
sometimes. Can you recommend a source of information for how the bars
are attached to a window? Also, I've been looking at several stained
glass web sites, but I haven't seen the bar listed for sale. Can you
tell me who sells it online?

I've also heard that there are alternatives to using the bars.
Southern Glass told me that they use lead came that has a steel
reinforcement built into it. Did I hear that right?

Thank you, Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've seen rigid metal reinforcement bars stretching across big
windows. I've never used them but I know they are necessary
sometimes. Can you recommend a source of information for how the bars
are attached to a window? Also, I've been looking at several stained
glass web sites, but I haven't seen the bar listed for sale. Can you
tell me who sells it online?

I've also heard that there are alternatives to using the bars.
Southern Glass told me that they use lead came that has a steel
reinforcement built into it. Did I hear that right?

Thank you, Michael


You heard them correctly, it comes from Europe, Germany I believe, but it
does not take the place of reinforcement or proper design. Both items play
into a window that will last. The steel innerbar lead HELPS to reduce the
fluctuation of the panel under wind load, so you may not need a bar going
straight thru a delicate design area. Reinforcement is still needed.

Going back to a previous post you made regarding thermal windows, and their
construction; there are no re-bars inside a thermal window, what keeps that
window in plane are the glass on either side that creates the thermal.

The re-bar is used to keep the window "in plane" and plumb, it does not hold
the window "up", the design and construction does that. But lead has no
memory, when the wind blows, pushes the panel in toward the building, it is
the rebar, and the "memory" of the steel that brings it back into plane,
allowing it to move each time there is a weather incident, be it storm or
windy day.

General rule of thumb in the use of re-bar, every 18-24 inches vertical,
installed horizontally. There are no hard and fast rules, if the panel
calls for it, use it, BUT good design practices will eliminate the need for
more.

Flat re-bar is sold at most retailers as re-bar, curiously enough.

Thanks for posting, javahut. I searched for "bar" on Glasscrafters
and found it. Zinc, if I recall correctly, in a 1/8" by 3/8"
dimension. Near as I could tell from your description, this bar is
designed to run horizontally. What kind of reinforcement would one
use for vertical? For instance, if I made a 50" tall and 20" wide
window, I imagine I would used two horizontal bars, but what would I
run vertically? My guess is that there is some type of rigid border
that should be used. I have never used a border other than copper
tape or soft U-channel lead came. Neither of those seem strong
enough. I would imagine that if the window was installed in an
architectural frame of wood or metal, that would be sufficient, but I
would think it dangerously fragile outside of that frame.

Thank you, Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
ps.com...
Thanks for posting, javahut. I searched for "bar" on Glasscrafters
and found it. Zinc, if I recall correctly, in a 1/8" by 3/8"
dimension. Near as I could tell from your description, this bar is
designed to run horizontally. What kind of reinforcement would one
use for vertical? For instance, if I made a 50" tall and 20" wide
window, I imagine I would used two horizontal bars, but what would I
run vertically? My guess is that there is some type of rigid border
that should be used. I have never used a border other than copper
tape or soft U-channel lead came. Neither of those seem strong
enough. I would imagine that if the window was installed in an
architectural frame of wood or metal, that would be sufficient, but I
would think it dangerously fragile outside of that frame.

Thank you, Michael

Copper foil is not designed to be a free standing perimeter, and I don't
recommend anything else other than what you are using. Put the piece in a
more durable frame. The material we use for assembly is not designed to be
the end material for a framed piece.

In answer to your reinforcing question. a 20 ' width should need no
reinforcing, the 2 horizontal pieces should be enough, of course I should
ask, how much wind do you have? But in central IN you are similar to MI, so
I would say, you have it planned well, no need for vertical rebar. as a
qualifier to that statement, I have not seen the pattern either.

On Jul 18, 5:36 am, Michael wrote:
I've seen rigid metal reinforcement bars stretching across big
windows. I've never used them but I know they are necessary
sometimes. Can you recommend a source of information for how the bars
are attached to a window? Also, I've been looking at several stained
glass web sites, but I haven't seen the bar listed for sale. Can you
tell me who sells it online?

I've also heard that there are alternatives to using the bars.
Southern Glass told me that they use lead came that has a steel
reinforcement built into it. Did I hear that right?

Thank you, Michael

Cascade Metals makes lead with brass inside the heart. It doesn't
necessarily eliminate the need for other reinforcement, but on a
carefully designed window is often all that's needed. Where and if to
apply reinforcement depends more on the design than anything else.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Cascade Metals makes lead with brass inside the heart. It doesn't
necessarily eliminate the need for other reinforcement, but on a
carefully designed window is often all that's needed. Where and if to
apply reinforcement depends more on the design than anything else.


And of course, all this "advice" comes from a moron who's never actually
built a window.

On Jul 19, 3:12 pm, " Moonraker" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Cascade Metals makes lead with brass inside the heart. It doesn't
necessarily eliminate the need for other reinforcement, but on a
carefully designed window is often all that's needed. Where and if to
apply reinforcement depends more on the design than anything else.

And of course, all this "advice" comes from a moron who's never actually
built a window.

How 'bout showing us some examples of something you've done Donnie.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 19, 3:12 pm, " Moonraker" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

Cascade Metals makes lead with brass inside the heart. It doesn't
necessarily eliminate the need for other reinforcement, but on a
carefully designed window is often all that's needed. Where and if to
apply reinforcement depends more on the design than anything else.

And of course, all this "advice" comes from a moron who's never actually
built a window.

How 'bout showing us some examples of something you've done Donnie.

Why? Are you running out of things to plagarize for your "book"?

On Jul 19, 7:18 pm, " Moonraker" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jul 19, 3:12 pm, " Moonraker" wrote:
wrote in message

groups.com...

Cascade Metals makes lead with brass inside the heart. It doesn't
necessarily eliminate the need for other reinforcement, but on a
carefully designed window is often all that's needed. Where and if to
apply reinforcement depends more on the design than anything else.

And of course, all this "advice" comes from a moron who's never actually
built a window.

How 'bout showing us some examples of something you've done Donnie.

Why? Are you running out of things to plagarize for your "book"?

The book?
The stained glass book can be downloaded free.
http://www.glasscampus.com/
The new book on fusing won't be out until fall.

I gotta say Donnie, seems a sad and sorry thing if your only
significant accomplishment is learning to make stained glass windows.
We regulaly have 12 year olds do it.
http://www.debrady.com/about/denmanproject.htm

Even have a special class all this week with some as young as 11.
http://www.glasscampus.com/classes/c...introglass.htm

Worried about having to compete with all those basement bandits?
It'll get worse. I'm planning on creating thousands more with free
tutorials. Check out the video clilps. I'm working on an entire
series to teach stained glass.
http://www.glasscampus.com/classes/c...introglass.htm

Right after I teach them how to make stained glass, I'll teach them
how to make a living selling it:
http://www.glasscampus.com/tutorials...20Business.pdf

Do you think there's room for a few more glass artisans down were you
are? Is that Frog Fart Florida, or are you still in Gator Gaggle
Georgia?

Thousands Donnie. Thousands. Everywhere - there'll be a bountiful
barrage of basement bandits.

Dennis Brady
DeBrady Glassworks - http://www.debrady.com
Victorian Art Glass - http://www.vicartglass.com
Glass Campus -http://glasscampus.com

wrote in message Cascade

Worried about having to compete with all those basement bandits?
It'll get worse. I'm planning on creating thousands more with free
tutorials. Check out the video clilps. I'm working on an entire
series to teach stained glass.

Right after I teach them how to make stained glass, I'll teach them
how to make a living selling it:



Still waiting to hear of anyone you taught, that's actually making a
primary income in SG in any one of the 50 states? Making a living today
would be somewhere around $50k. If it were me, I'd be proud to list them,
and they'd be happy of the attention & publicity. I've taught thousands,
and I can't name one that's doing more than selling a few windows & trinkets
here and there. Just give us a couple of business names, and we'll all be
convinced and stop asking. Why not establish some credibility?


--
JK Sinrod
www.SinrodStudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com