Mirjam - how are you?

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:47:09 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Um, hello, Jim? You will side with Mirjam in what? Calling me an
anti-Semite? What did I ever do to you? Please note that the
paragraph you quote is a diatribe against me, asking why she should
discuss Israeli policy with me, when I was not discussing it with her
in the first place. If you want to agree with Mirjam about Israeli
policy, that's fine, but please note that the paragraph you're
agreeing with proclaims that only those who live there have the right
to comment on what the Israeli government does, so that leave you
right out as well.

Elizabeth

This seems to be the attitude of many Israelis. I befriended an
elderly woman whose husband died. She in her 70s, her name is Avi,
from Israel, but here for many years. Though she lived in America for
fifty years she still couldn't write or read much English. Her
computer keyboard was Hebrew.

Anyway, we got into a discussion one day and I told her my mother was
Jewish and she said, "No she is not, unless you are born in Israel you
are not a true Jew." Huh? Yes, that was her attitude.

Seriousness aside, the women in my family on the Russian side always
declared they were Jews, but only because they got their nails done,
ate bagels with a shmear with nova and ate matzos!

Then there were the Great, Great Aunties who lived through camps with
tattoos who were also told they weren't real Jews. Feh.
Victoria

http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/
Updated daily when able.




I worked for an American Zionist Organization for years, mostly with Israeli
Doctors and Educators, and I even went to Israel for 6 weeks to work at a
convention and not one Israeli citizen ever said anything so outrageous or
hateful. As a matter of fact my husband had relatives who are sabras and
they certainly never thought that way. I would also like to know who in
their right mind would tell someone who lived through the camps that they
weren't Jewish. You seem to know an awful lot of intolerant and strange
people.

"F.James Cripwell" wrote
Elizabeth, you dont understand lex talonis; the law of the jungle. If I
am stronger than you are, and you break one of my legs, I break both of
yours in return, and put out one of your eyes as well. The Israelis
understand lex talonis.

The law of the jungle is for animals. The human race has moved on,
albeit not very far right now.
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney UK
http://claremont.island-blogging.co.uk

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:12:30 -0500, "lucille"
wrote:

I worked for an American Zionist Organization for years, mostly with
Israeli
Doctors and Educators, and I even went to Israel for 6 weeks to work at a
convention and not one Israeli citizen ever said anything so outrageous or
hateful. As a matter of fact my husband had relatives who are sabras and
they certainly never thought that way. I would also like to know who in
their right mind would tell someone who lived through the camps that they
weren't Jewish. You seem to know an awful lot of intolerant and strange
people.


No, I don't know an awful lot of intolerant people. I know a lot of
people and this woman said these things to me. She may have been out
of her mind for all I know. She said reformed Jews are not really
Jews, nor are any Jews not born in Israel. She was a whacked out,
very old for her age (which is why I called her elderly) woman.

I actually have many lovely people in my life. I also believe you
when you say what you did above. It was an example of an extremist I
was giving. I don't know extremist Israeli people who believe in this
violence. It was an example.
Victoria

http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/
Updated daily when able.

Judaism is a religion, Israel is a nation. Since Israel didn`t exist as
such until 1948 - how does the woman you know justify her claim? What about
the Jews who have been wandering the globe for centuries? LOL!

Pat

"Bruce Fletcher " ) writes:
"F.James Cripwell" wrote
Elizabeth, you dont understand lex talonis; the law of the jungle. If I
am stronger than you are, and you break one of my legs, I break both of
yours in return, and put out one of your eyes as well. The Israelis
understand lex talonis.

The law of the jungle is for animals. The human race has moved on,
albeit not very far right now.
--
Bruce Fletcher


I am not sure the human race has moved on. Take the example of the UK in
WWII. Dresden. In Burma, Gen. Slim chose the most malaria infected parts
of the jungle to fight in, as the Brits has excellent anti-malaria
medicine, and the Japs didn't. When Slim was accused of using too much
force, and using a sledge hammer to crack nut, his response was "I have
the sledge hammer, and I dont care what happens to the nut". The there
were the two atom bombs. As I remarked before "War is Hell".
As another aspect, and Mirjam can correct me if I am wrong. After
the 1967 war, the Israelis occupied the Golan heights; but also a strip
of land leading from Israel to the heights. This has not been taken over,
and no Israelis are allowed to live there. The Syrian farmers have never
had it so good. They have all the advantage of advanced Isreali
tehcniques and marketing. When asked if they want to return to Syrian
rule, their answer is WTTE "Yes, but not yet. Wait until the Syrian
government can give us the same benefits as the Israelis do." Jim.

) writes:
Jim, I understand the law of the jungle, I just don't think that it is
effective. Last I knew, humans emerged from the jungle a long time
ago. Israel's problem is that they want to apply the law of the
jungle in a world that would like to consider itself civilized. When
democratic societies behave that way, they should expect to be
criticized. It's unfair, it's hypocritical, but it is the way things
are. It's unfortunate for Israel that they will be criticized for
their response. It is even more unfortunate that it won't work any
better than it has worked the last many times they have applied it.

Elizabeth

See my response to Bruce. I dont care which war you study, you will find
that the side with the superior strength tends to apply lex talonis. I
firmly believe that, although it is completely unacceptable, the way to
solve problems like Northern Ireland is to put a cordon sanitaire round
the place, pour in arms, and let the two sides kill each other. After
a lot of blood has been spilt, they will realize that it is much better
to live in peace. In Europe, countries like UK, France, Germany, Italy,
etc. have fought wars for centuries. We finally worked out that this was
just plain stupid. Jim.

On Jan 4, 9:16*pm, (F.James Cripwell) wrote:
) writes:
Jim, I understand the law of the jungle, I just don't think that it is
effective. *Last I knew, humans emerged from the jungle a long time
ago. *Israel's problem is that they want to apply the law of the
jungle in a world that would like to consider itself civilized. *When
democratic societies behave that way, they should expect to be
criticized. *It's unfair, it's hypocritical, but it is the way things
are. *It's unfortunate for Israel that they will be criticized for
their response. *It is even more unfortunate that it won't work any
better than it has worked the last many times they have applied it.

Elizabeth

See my response to Bruce. *I dont care which war you study, you will find
that the side with the superior strength tends to apply lex talonis. *

I agree that the side with the superior strength tends to apply lex
talonis. My point is that they sometimes do so to their own
detriment. For example, the US in Viet Nam, or the Soviet Union in
Afghanistan. Not so successful for the more powerful side in either
case.

Military strategists still argue for overwhelming force, but they tend
to be much more selective about which situations they choose to enter
and more concerned about what they refer to as collateral damage.

Elizabeth

) writes:
I agree that the side with the superior strength tends to apply lex
talonis. My point is that they sometimes do so to their own
detriment. For example, the US in Viet Nam, or the Soviet Union in
Afghanistan. Not so successful for the more powerful side in either
case.

Military strategists still argue for overwhelming force, but they tend
to be much more selective about which situations they choose to enter
and more concerned about what they refer to as collateral damage.

Elizabeth

I agree. To quote an old adage. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating".
Jim.

"F.James Cripwell" wrote

I am not sure the human race has moved on. Take the example of the UK in
WWII. Dresden. In Burma, Gen. Slim chose the most malaria infected parts
of the jungle to fight in, as the Brits has excellent anti-malaria
medicine, and the Japs didn't. (snip)J

I hope there was a spelling mistake in this message. The people of Japan
are called, in English, Japanese.

Dawne

"F.James Cripwell" wrote
See my response to Bruce. I dont care which war you study, you will find
that the side with the superior strength tends to apply lex talonis. I
firmly believe that, although it is completely unacceptable, the way to
solve problems like Northern Ireland is to put a cordon sanitaire round
the place, pour in arms, and let the two sides kill each other. (snip)

There is a problem with the cordon sanitaire solution--it isn't possible.
The Irish took their conflict to Britain, to the US and Canada, and who
knows where else. As have the sides in the Middle East struggles, the Sikh
separatists, the Tamils, and other groups. However they begin, these things
become global.

Dawne

Please tell me, how is the name "Japs" more insulting than "Brits"? I don't
mind being called a Brit, and I wouldn't have thought a Japanese person
would object to being called a Jap.

Joyce in RSA.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:54:05 -0600, "Dawne Peterson"
wrote:


"F.James Cripwell" wrote

I am not sure the human race has moved on. Take the example of the UK
in
WWII. Dresden. In Burma, Gen. Slim chose the most malaria infected
parts
of the jungle to fight in, as the Brits has excellent anti-malaria
medicine, and the Japs didn't. (snip)J

I hope there was a spelling mistake in this message. The people of Japan
are called, in English, Japanese.

Dawne


When I read that, I was finished reading further.
Victoria

http://gotbodhicitta-wangmo.blogspot.com/
Updated daily when able.