To: TimG, Melinda, DAB and David Skye

Lisa wrote:
Well, I just started looking at your newsgroup and I must say that I
am appalled!!!!
Let's read some of these comments again!!!!



To Melinda and DAB: Where I work........you would be labeled as:
racist, snobbish, narcississtic and paranoid. And I think that would
be an accurate assessment of the two of you. You both make me so
angry I could spit! How dare you talk to another human being like
that. One could say that when we write, it is difficult to determine
the feeling and thought behind those written words. I think your
intent was quite clear.

Good for you....you know nothing about me or Melinda......I have been around
USENET groups over 9 years and have seen ever kind of ploy to get money.
This kid comes in the group and right away is asking for a so far non
existent book to be sent to him. Several members took time away from what
they were doing to search the net for additional information and found and
posted the results for him to look at...but that wasn't good enough for
him....he still whined about not having the money to buy the book on E-bay,
my unasked question is if he saw it on e-bay why can't he give us the info
needed to identify the book......Title and Author and perhaps a link to the
e-bay posting......because he didn't do that red flags went up for me.

Since your pre-judging and jumping to this poor kids defense and projecting
a holier than thou attitude I will assume your a Tree Hugger.


As I was writing this post.....I see that further down there are other
responses from various other people.

One tried to be nice to you (which neither of you deserved) and
politely let you know that you were "out of line". But that wasn't
enough for one of you..........you had to look this kid up and find
out more about him..........so you come up with numerous requests
from him for free material. Obviously that was suspect too! I
wonder..........if, in fact he is poor......did it occur to you that
perhaps he is looking for crafts to make/sell that might help to
support his family. Or, perhaps he is looking for crafts to teach to
others, maybe young children who have little or nothing, to give them
something to do that is productive, and builds character and
integrity. Or, maybe he is hoping to help his community by showing
other adults these crafts, so they can do something to provide for
their families. Or maybe it has nothing to do with poverty. Maybe
he is a young man who follows his father's rules because he still
lives in his father's home, and is attending college. Who knows what
his reasons are. What difference does it make. He was only asking
for a book. A book so he could teach himself something. A book on
Ojo De Dios, "Eye of God". He wasn't asking for your checkbook. He
said nothing about money. Someone is asking you about a book so he
can teach himself to make something that represents "God" in some
cultures. Instead of really trying to help him, you got nasty with
him. You had an opportunity to do something good and you chose to
ignore it. By the way.......have you seen the "God Speaks"
billboards. Perhaps you should do a search for them and see what
they have to say.

Oh great a Bible Thumper too......which I have nothing against, to each his
own.

Then, you add more insult to injury......."Most Americans get tired of
people who constantly ask for handouts. That is not slander, it is
just that begging is not socially acceptable
in this country, as opposed to other countries where there is no
means for an unemployable person to find a means of support."

You accuse him of begging. He was asking for help. Hmmm, begging is
not socially acceptable in this country, huh?!? Let's talk about the
numbers of people who receive Social Security Disability (or are
trying very hard to get it) and they don't deserve it. Let's talk
about those people out there who don't want to work for a living and
want to live off of some type of government assistance instead. I
must clarify that I am not speaking of those who truly deserve these
services. Nope! Begging in the US is not socially
acceptable.......so people have found more savvy ways to get what
they want. They know they can't beg, so they feign disabilities
instead. You are right.....what you said about people asking for
handouts is not slander. I agree, you did not slander Tim. You
insulted him!!!!!
To David Skye: I would like to know just what it was that indicated
to you that Tim was lazy and demanding. I got nothing like that from
any of his posts. And if you think that those posts from Melinda and
DAB were mild, then either you did not read carefully enough or like
Melinda and DAB, you are bigoted and narcississtic. Those posts
might have been considered mild, had Tim deserved what was doled out
to him. But he didn't, which makes those comments just plain mean!


Well as this is a crafts group I will restrain my fingers and continue to be
Mild as you put it.

And we wonder why people in other countries don't like us!?!?!


I could care less what other countries think...they will think what they
will.....most get there opinions of us from our TV Shows.

God help all of you.....you all need it! By the way
Melinda......yes, I will send a book to Malaysia.

How nice of you.....what is the title and author's name? And BTW God helps
those that help themselfs.

Donna

Hey, DAB, thanks for replying to this. The original message never Mae
it to my news server.

One tried to be nice to you (which neither of you deserved) and
politely let you know that you were "out of line". But that wasn't
enough for one of you..........you had to look this kid up and find
out more about him..........so you come up with numerous requests
from him for free material. Obviously that was suspect too!

I just went looking to see if it was a scammer poised as a poor
third-world country resident. He wasn't. But he *did* have a past
history of posting to various crafts groups asking for handouts. Since
I looked at his background where he plainly stated what he was doing and
why, I offered some information to cover a bigger picture than what he
was looking for. And FWIW it was my conclusion that he was not one of
those really devious scammer, which is why I came back and posted other
suggestions.

(I am also not posting the exact reasons he stated for wanting this
information on this newsgroup, which reasons colored my opinions and
might color yours also.)

I
wonder..........if, in fact he is poor

He specifically stated himself that he is not poor, but he did state
that his father will not let him order anything off of the Internet, and
he also said that the exchange rate between his local currency and
dollars makes things unaffordable.

......did it occur to you that
perhaps he is looking for crafts to make/sell that might help to
support his family. Or, perhaps he is looking for crafts to teach to
others, maybe young children who have little or nothing, to give them
something to do that is productive, and builds character and
integrity. Or, maybe he is hoping to help his community by showing
other adults these crafts, so they can do something to provide for
their families.


All of which are excellent reasons to learn to be self-sufficient and
not depend on handouts from other people, and all of which would make my
suggestions about learning to spin/weave/knit from locally available
fibers excellent ones for a good long-term solution.

Go read in Queen Noor Al-Hussein's autobiography/memoirs, Leap of Faith,
about what she did to help the desperately-poor people of Jordan is to
work to give them opportunities to market locally-made handcrafts
internationally. The workers did not need to ask for handouts. They
used locally-available materials and Queen Noor made a way for them to
be showcased internationally so that they would be sold and these
crafters would earn money to help support their families. It was
phenomenally successful and an excellent model to use.

his reasons are. What difference does it make. He was only asking
for a book. A book so he could teach himself something. A book on
Ojo De Dios, "Eye of God". He wasn't asking for your checkbook.

Uh, yeah, he was. He was asking me to pay the shipping charges on the
book and to gamble that he would have the shipping charges and the
volition to send it back when he was done with it.


He said nothing about money.

You're right. Nowhere did he offer to pay for the book, reimburse
shipping costs in whole or in part, etc.


Instead of really trying to help him, you got nasty with
him. You had an opportunity to do something good and you chose to
ignore it.

Give a man a fish and you have fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish
and you have fed him for life. My philosophy is to teach them to fish,
even sometimes give them a little bait so they know what they need to
get, and then let them learn to fish so they can stand tall and not
constantly have their hand out to others.

You accuse him of begging. He was asking for help.

He was asking for a handout. Help would have been asking for web links.

To David Skye: I would like to know just what it was that indicated
to you that Tim was lazy and demanding.

I will concede that it could just be an issue of semantics, but I am
pretty sure what David is referring to is people pointing Tim to web
links, and then Tim replying back that we didn't understand what he was
asking for; that he didn't want web links, he wanted someone to loan him
a book.

(If he had initially asked for an unneeded book and offered to pay for
postage or to send something particularly culturally Malaysian in
response, I would not have considered it begging at all. It would have
been a fair exchange in my eyes.)

any of his posts. And if you think that those posts from Melinda and
DAB were mild, then either you did not read carefully enough or like
Melinda and DAB, you are bigoted and narcississtic. Those posts
might have been considered mild, had Tim deserved what was doled out
to him. But he didn't, which makes those comments just plain mean!

You are reading something into what I said, at least, that is far beyond
what I said.

God help all of you.....you all need it! By the way
Melinda......yes, I will send a book to Malaysia.

If you have money to be able to afford to give it to *everybody* who
asks you for it, well, God bless you. I don't, neither do my children,
and I try to teach them to work for themselves to get what they need as
independently as possible rather than learn to live off the public dole.
I would give my own child the same suggestions that I gave Tim -- that
instead of keeping looking for handouts, that they develop independent
sources to get information, whether they rather than depend on other
people to cover the cost of what they want to do. And I hate seeing
anybody who is dependent upon handouts from other people and try to
encourage them to be as independent as possible.

"Lisa" wrote in message
...
And we wonder why people in other countries don't like us!?!?!

God help all of you.....you all need it! By the way Melinda......yes, I
will send a book to Malaysia.

Where the hell do you get off criticizing the people in this group? For the
most part the people on this group are very good hearted, but once in a
while we get idiots like you who show up. For the record, I don't believe
in God, so ask me if I care that you want her to help us.

And BTW, it wasn't ONLY Americans who replied to this unknown person. There
were people from at least 2 or 3 other countries that replied. You quoted a
whole bunch of stuff I wrote, but you obviously didn't know enough about
posting to attribute it to the right place, not that I particularly care.

Hey - good for you if you want to send an untitled, unattributed book to an
unknown person who comes on this ng asking for something for nothing. People
are quite right to be cautious. This person asking for the book is totally
unknown to us, as are you. If you don't like what is written here, don't
let the door hit your a$$ on the way out. You won't be missed.

Shelagh

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
Hey, DAB, thanks for replying to this. The original message never Mae
it to my news server.


NP however I snipped out most of it.....which was quite a ramble.

Go read in Queen Noor Al-Hussein's autobiography/memoirs, Leap of
Faith, about what she did to help the desperately-poor people of
Jordan is to work to give them opportunities to market locally-made
handcrafts internationally. The workers did not need to ask for
handouts. They used locally-available materials and Queen Noor made
a way for them to be showcased internationally so that they would be
sold and these crafters would earn money to help support their
families. It was phenomenally successful and an excellent model to
use.

I bought the book when it hit the stores.....very good read. My work brings
me in contact with foreign nationals and I can say that in his part of the
world there are no middle classes....like India.....The wealthy and the
Poor. I have a friendship with a Jordian woman...her husband is assigned
here for 2 years, she has been very bored and myself and another knitting
friend has taught her to knit......she comes to our monthly meetings at the
local Library and came for the first time to the Guild Meeting.....she was
very well received and got a kick out of show and tell.....she has after
only a few months knitted a hat and scarf for one of her young sons.

Anyway take care and be well!

Donna

Shillelagh wrote:
"Lisa" wrote in message
...
And we wonder why people in other countries don't like us!?!?!

God help all of you.....you all need it! By the way
Melinda......yes, I will send a book to Malaysia.

Where the hell do you get off criticizing the people in this group?
For the most part the people on this group are very good hearted, but
once in a while we get idiots like you who show up. For the record,
I don't believe in God, so ask me if I care that you want her to help
us.

And BTW, it wasn't ONLY Americans who replied to this unknown person.
There were people from at least 2 or 3 other countries that replied.
You quoted a whole bunch of stuff I wrote, but you obviously didn't
know enough about posting to attribute it to the right place, not
that I particularly care.

Hey - good for you if you want to send an untitled, unattributed book
to an unknown person who comes on this ng asking for something for
nothing. People are quite right to be cautious. This person asking
for the book is totally unknown to us, as are you. If you don't like
what is written here, don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out.
You won't be missed.

Shelagh

LOL that was better said then I could have done....and It was difficult to
decipher who was being quoted other than mine.

Donna

Fortunately, we seldom see posts here from people who are as "rude, smug or
bigotted" as you appear to be. When you get over your snit, please come
back to learn and share yarn craft information with us. If you do come
back, please post with the correct date rather than two months in the
future.

--
Jan in MN

"Lisa" wrote in message
...
I will make no more responses and will be unsubscribing to this newsgroup.
I am certain that this will make some of you happy. FYI: I came here with
an open mind and heart. I came to learn and SHARE. I thought I would find
the same. I had no intention of writing what I have. I did not seek out
the posts that I responded to, but I could not just walk away and say
nothing. I have made no other posts like this in any of the other
newsgroups and certainly don't intend to. If we cross paths in another
news group, so be it. I have said my piece and I stand by my opinions. I
am sorry you choose to see it differently. I have no problem with people
having a difference of opinion with me. I even feel that we could possibly
agree on some points. But people don't have to be rude, smug, or biggoted
to someone who is asking for help. Perhaps you could choose your words
more carefully. Perhaps you could open your minds and hearts a little bit
more.

Boo hoo! I am only seeing what she wrote when people quote it back!


"Lisa" wrote in message
...
I will make no more responses and will be unsubscribing to this
newsgroup.
I am certain that this will make some of you happy. FYI: I came
here with
an open mind and heart. I came to learn and SHARE. I thought I
would find

"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" wrote in
message ...
Boo hoo! I am only seeing what she wrote when people quote it back!

You didn't miss a thing.

S.

"Lisa" wrote in message
...
I will make no more responses and will be unsubscribing to this newsgroup.

Good.

I am certain that this will make some of you happy. FYI: I came here
with
an open mind and heart.

Uh, no you didn't.

I came to learn and SHARE. I thought I would find
the same. I had no intention of writing what I have.

Then, why did you? You could have just kept quiet, lurked and found out
what this group is about.

I did not seek out the posts that I responded to, but I could not just
walk away and say
nothing.

Yes, you could have, but instead chose to slander people you know nothing
about.

I have made no other posts like this in any of the other
newsgroups and certainly don't intend to.

Good. You're very long winded.

If we cross paths in another news
group, so be it. I have said my piece and I stand by my opinions. I am
sorry you choose to see it differently. I have no problem with people
having a difference of opinion with me.

Obviously you do.

I even feel that we could possibly agree on some points.

Doesn't seem likely

But people don't have to be rude, smug, or biggoted
to someone who is asking for help.

You're the one saying people here are that. I say most of them aren't.
Seems to me you're assuming a lot. And there's where the difference of
opinions come in. You DO have a problem with it, so quit saying you don't.

Perhaps you could choose your words more carefully.

You certainly need to.

Perhaps you could open your minds and hearts a little bit more.

Why, because YOU say so? And because a lot of us are more cautious about
doing what you seem so willing to do? Sounds quite judgemental to me. Just
send the kid a book and leave it at that. I'm sure you'll get your just
rewards at some time.

Shelahg

ow i am tottaly confused , somebody speaks about QUEEN NOOR and the
next writer writes HIS part of the world ....
His who ? what country ,,, Jordan isn`t to be compared with India in
anyway specially not in class [social or economical ] matters ...
mirjam

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
Hey, DAB, thanks for replying to this. The original message never Mae
it to my news server.


NP however I snipped out most of it.....which was quite a ramble.

Go read in Queen Noor Al-Hussein's autobiography/memoirs, Leap of
Faith, about what she did to help the desperately-poor people of
Jordan is to work to give them opportunities to market locally-made
handcrafts internationally. The workers did not need to ask for
handouts. They used locally-available materials and Queen Noor made
a way for them to be showcased internationally so that they would be
sold and these crafters would earn money to help support their
families. It was phenomenally successful and an excellent model to
use.

I bought the book when it hit the stores.....very good read. My work brings
me in contact with foreign nationals and I can say that in his part of the
world there are no middle classes....like India.....The wealthy and the
Poor. I have a friendship with a Jordian woman...her husband is assigned
here for 2 years, she has been very bored and myself and another knitting
friend has taught her to knit......she comes to our monthly meetings at the
local Library and came for the first time to the Guild Meeting.....she was
very well received and got a kick out of show and tell.....she has after
only a few months knitted a hat and scarf for one of her young sons.

Anyway take care and be well!

Donna