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#41
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http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html
ROFL - Get their prices!! I wonder if they sell any.. Whoa! ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
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#42
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I also think that they need to consider that their
liberation front may not change the market to what they want to change it to, because that just isn't the way it works on ebay. Well, its pretty much not the way it works anywhere...except for maybe the dollar stores. Where you certainly get what you pay for. ;o) While the group *is* trying to get people to not post 99 cent auctions And this was another point that I didn't quite understand. Who cares what the starting bid is? Its an auction. That is (or was) the whole point of the place. Live auctions work under the same premise. The auctioneer will attempt to start the bidding at the least possible amount they feel is fair for the item, if that doesn't work, they keep lowering the opening bid. This tactic is not there to devalue the item. It is there to incite bids. The more bids, the more percieved interest, the more interest, the more bids. We remain a simple minded species. ;o) Plus there are usually shills in the crowd to avoid a loss. If you are not confident in the fact that your item will sell for what you perceive its value to be on an auction site, then maybe you shouldn't be using that medium as a sales tool. I truely do understand that it is all good intent behind their concept. But there remains a few flaws that will keep it from becoming the idea they are after. Here's what I posted there earlier today. Oh, very well said Kandice. And I fear the lack of replies are again because we tend to be a simple species. It is always easier to go with the crowd instead of against them. Most all of us desire approval and praise as opposed to confrontation or silence. I, for one, agree with your comments and commend you for speaking your opinion. I also wish everyone good sales and validation in their worth. Beki http://www.whimbeads.com |
#43
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Well, it makes sense...however, art is completely subjective. There are no
two beads exactly alike, so it's harder to price fix. In addition, if you translate this concept into another area in the beading world, it also does not make sense. If you have a stay at home Mom with 3 kids beading an amulet bag in her "spare" time. Like between diaper changes, bottle washing, soccer practice, a few minutes of catching your favorite soap, making dinner, baths and bedtime, does her work represent the same value as a beadworker who devotes a full 8 hours of his or her day to creating? The answer to that question for me is which of the two above mentioned beaders is the more skilled? Who produces the higher quality product? Who has the better artistic treatment of the item? Who pays more attention to the craftsmanship and detail to assure the item they are creating will last a lifetime? Which of the two has taken the time to locate their true market? Beki http://www.whimbeads.com |
#44
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But the big question are they selling any of their work? If they are then
they are not over priced if not then they are. My bet is they are over priced. Roxan "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076481474.404995@prawn... Here's jewelry offerred by a beadmaker. http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html Considering the prices for these items, I guess I should be charging $250 for wholesale. I'm not picking on anyone. I'm just trying to get a feel for this. Tina "KDK" wrote in message ... Nope. I had marked your other post as unread so I could reply to it. I totally agree that what I'm going to do with the bead(s) plays a part in how much I feel I can pay. I'll pay more for a bead for me than one that I'm going to put into a piece to try and sell. I also look at the size of the sets - I tend to not use an entire set in any piece I make. So I may see a large set that I love, but can't see being able to make enough pieces out of it (repetition gets old for me) so I may not buy or bid. And I'm watching this thread here and at WC since I'm just getting started selling finished pieces and hopefully, when I think my beads are ready, to sell beads also. Kathy K "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076446594.244893@prawn... One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
#45
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This is where you have to educate your costumer about how they are made and
that they are a work of art. Just show them the difference between a cheap Indian bead and good lampwork bead and they will learn to appreciate the art. Roxan "Kathy N-V" wrote in message . giganews.com... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:11:13 -0500, Christina Peterson wrote (in message 1076469073.78773@prawn): Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? I don't sell things, so it isn't as big an issue for me. But I rarely give away pieces with lampworked beads. People just don't appreciate them. They might comment on how pretty they are, and where they might get one; but when I tell them that they're unique, handmade and can go from $10 on up apiece. (I know that's a lousy guesstimate, bear with me) Invariably, the person says "Ten Bucks! for one bead! Kathy, you're nuts!" Yep, I am nuts, but I honestly believe that I haven't overpaid for the works of art I treasure. Until I find people who see what I see in those beads, I'm keeping all my lampwork for my own bad self. Kathy N-V |
#46
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Wow, Beki -- rock on! You are absolutely dead-on.
Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o) First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi. Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work. That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a quality piece of beadwork. Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12, I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail store. While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works. There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market demand to find that happy medium. That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time, that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the market thins, your competition increases. You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it is you as an individual can do to change. You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc. Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to offer. Not what others choose to sell for. The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in. They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs for. I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally undercut others and I do not overprice. Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the best of the best.. =o) If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel you deserve, then find the location that will. It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon them. While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it is the individuals within that family that make it what it is. A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists, craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more worth. Beki http://www.whimbeads.com ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
#47
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Beki, so well put. Thanks for a good post.
Roxan "DreamBeadr" wrote in message ... Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o) First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi. Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work. That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a quality piece of beadwork. Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12, I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail store. While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works. There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market demand to find that happy medium. That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time, that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the market thins, your competition increases. You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it is you as an individual can do to change. You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc. Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to offer. Not what others choose to sell for. The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in. They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs for. I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally undercut others and I do not overprice. Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the best of the best.. =o) If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel you deserve, then find the location that will. It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon them. While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it is the individuals within that family that make it what it is. A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists, craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more worth. Beki http://www.whimbeads.com |
#48
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"This is where you have to educate your costumer about how they are made and
that they are a work of art. Just show them the difference between a cheap Indian bead and good lampwork bead and they will learn to appreciate the art. Roxan" This is correct. I am learning about beads and now know the difference between cheap and quality. I am starting to collect the lampwork as I can afford it. And like some of the others, I don't want to resell them. I keep them and look at them (touch them) and some I'm making into stuff for me. They are too beautiful to part with. -- Debbie (New Mexico) Life is too short --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 2/6/2004 |
#49
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Nope. :-)
I (so far) have only had two open houses, and done custom work. I've used very little lampwork up until now, but am having the same problem. I have a beautiful heart set that I paid $30 for on eBay. Well worth it to me. But it makes the necklace made from them cost out at $150. Will someone pay $150? Probably. But probably not in my market. So I won't price it that high. I find that I adjust my price formula when it comes out very high - I make far better profit margins on things like earrings, and simple necklaces, than I do on things like fancy necklaces and mother's bracelets. Since I am not trying to make a living doing this, it's ok for me. I don't think I'm grossly undercutting others either, just reacting to the realities of life in my market. Karin Christina Peterson wrote: Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076446594.244893@prawn... One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
#50
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You and I have talked about this before, Kandice -- but I wanted to lend
support. I so agree with what you have said. I think there are people who suffer a lot, emotionally, over why their auctions aren't getting more bids (or any bids, in some cases). They cry about it in pubic forums everywhere. I've looked at their beads, I've even bought their beads (this is not any one person, mind you). I won't be back to buy more beads from them. Why? Because I was unhappy with the beads, and they have a lot of competition. So I don't have to go back and waste my time buying their flawed product -- I can just cross them off my list of sellers. Their holes were rough, or their beads weren't balanced, or the colors weren't lovely. Whatever it was, their product was not up to the market's professional standards, and I feel like I wasted my money. Some of those beads actually ended up in my trash basket....but I remember them well. I don't have the $$ to burn that I'd need to purchase from these folks. They've shown they have little respect for me -- why would they sell me substandard beads otherwise? Bad experiences = no money in that beadmaker's pocket. And I do tell my friends, so it ripples out. If you, whoever the "you" might be, aren't getting the sales you want (unless you're brand new at selling, of course), please, please examine your work. I don't care how long you've been doing it. You may have developed bad habits. You probably grew your craft when there was little competition if you've been doing it a long time. If you're new, or an old salt, you need to polish yourself to survive. Times have changed. You need to become excellent if you want that pie in the sky you moan about. Here's what I posted there earlier today. I got several private messages that were positive, but most people in the thread have not responded to what I said. ""holding breath, jumping in Okay. I wasn't going to post anything in this thread, but after reading it all, I really want to now. I applaud the good intentions. I love Rita - she's fabulous, as an artist and as a person. However, I have a few issues with this Liberation Group, and I am going to post my opinions about it, while still trying to honor the fact that this whole idea is about empowering and respecting art. Issue #1, which was brought up by someone else (thank goodness, otherwise I would be too afraid to post my thoughts) - 99 cent auctions are not always about perceived value. I have said this before and I will say it again - I post 99 cent bead sets on ebay to reduce ebay fees, and because I have confidence that my beads will get a good price. I have only been disappointed once or twice. eBay is an auction house, *not* a retail outlet. It's a game to many cusotmers. People do need to ba a little more lenient about price, but I *do* understand the need to ask for prices you can accept. That means when you list something, you need to be ready for what the market decides to do with it. So admonishing people for listing at 99 cents or 9.99 or 99.99 or what have you, is really not something that I see as good. A couple of artists have actually been named here in this thread, and some have been alluded to. That's not fair. Issue #2, which is a broad and multi-faceted issue - Everyone in this art field needs to take a good long look at if and why they are not selling their pieces for what they would like to. There's a whole huge range of skill in this group. Some beadmakers / glass artists cannot command higher prices due to a whole bunch of reasons that need to be addressed. You can't just increase your prices, stand back and watch the money pour in. You need to consider your buyers. You're not letting them in on this group action - they will have no idea why you're doing what you're doing. To raise prices, you also need to raise the bar where quality is concerned. I am not just talking about the quality of the bead itself - I also mean the quality of service, and the quality of the auctions themselves. Someone posted guidelines on their web site and was torn to pieces on this forum, even though she is a buyer who spends a lot of money on lampwork. Customers need to be listened to. I know we all just want to make what we want and have it sell, but the bottom line is that the market does not always work exactly that way. There needs to be a blend of market research and artistic expression. If pink is really in this season, that's going to be what sells a lot. If you decide not to go with that flow, because you hate pink, that's totally fine, but you need to keep that in mind when pink stuff is selling for higher than your stuff. That's an over-simplified example, of course. And you know, I see a LOT of people complaining about ebay. Yet, there are successes on ebay *all the time* in the very categories we sell in. We all need to look at that and figure out *why*. I am not saying to ask those sellers for their secrets, or try and copy them. I am saying that we need to focus on bettering ourselves as artists. People have success because they make it. They pay their dues, work like dogs, have talent, and *make their success*. Stop complaining about ebay sucking. Start doing your homework and figuring out why ebay sucks for you. It's not always a "slow time of year" there. Issue #3 - ebay is not black and white. It's a grey whale, baby. There's no "one way" to make it work. There's no one answer. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of lampworkers listing there. You may think this group is large, here, but it's only a small fraction of the lampworkers listing on ebay. Your group may not get the results you're looking for, so be prepared for that. Okay - I know I have been the person to post an opposing opinion on several of these types of issues on this forum. If y'all want me to go away, just let me know. I can handle that. But the many new threads about ebay being crap, and complaining about not getting the prices you want for your beads is getting really irksome to me. Maybe it's because I am not having the same problems you all are. And you know what? No one ever asks me why. Does any one care why?"" -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
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